Anyone else utterly terrified by this?

MusselsAnyone else utterly terrified by this?

That's just an opening for you to insert your card if you can't get it in from the side. The card doesn't stick out like that.

No i meant the idea of inserting a GPU in like that at all, the odds of a modern card even fitting seem slim, and it seems a great way to snag something and kill a card

I think the cable management will be a nightmare lol. The official page lists cpu cooler clearance of up to 172mm depending on length of PSU. Builds will depend on exact sizes of PSU, cooler and motherboard layout

That looks more of a clusterf$#% than my old LianLi Q11B. At least in my case a PSU took on a job of an exhaust fan, but this...
Hell, it even gives you an option of completely blocking airflow with a HDD )))

MusselsAnyone else utterly terrified by this?

Oh, yeah... Especially if you have a card without backplate. But looking at that power cable I don't think there's any other way to insert the card (unless it's a short ITX model and you have long and slim fingers)

FlankerThe official page lists cpu cooler clearance of up to 172mm depending on length of PSU.

That's only if you install an SFX PSU(they don't even include an adapter backplate). And judging by their pics - it's even worse. Basically that tower HS will blow hot air on the front plate of the PSU, and that's assuming your cables ain't on the way.

silentbogoThat looks more of a clusterf$#% than my old LianLi Q11B. At least in my case a PSU took on a job of an exhaust fan, but this...
Hell, it even gives you an option of completely blocking airflow with a HDD )))


Oh, yeah... Especially if you have a card without backplate. But looking at that power cable I don't think there's any other way to insert the card (unless it's a short ITX model and you have long and slim fingers)


That's only if you install an SFX PSU(they don't even include an adapter backplate). And judging by their pics - it's even worse. Basically that tower HS will blow hot air on the front plate of the PSU, and that's assuming your cables ain't on the way.

Still an option for someone who doesn't need to build a stove-PC into it.

@btarunr This section:

The rear has a 120 mm fan vent that can hold either a 120 mm rear exhaust fan, or a 3.5-inch HDD, or a 2.5-inch SSD (as mounts).

Is wrong: that is the front fan mount.

silentbogoThat looks more of a clusterf$#% than my old LianLi Q11B. At least in my case a PSU took on a job of an exhaust fan, but this...
Hell, it even gives you an option of completely blocking airflow with a HDD )))


Oh, yeah... Especially if you have a card without backplate. But looking at that power cable I don't think there's any other way to insert the card (unless it's a short ITX model and you have long and slim fingers)


That's only if you install an SFX PSU(they don't even include an adapter backplate). And judging by their pics - it's even worse. Basically that tower HS will blow hot air on the front plate of the PSU, and that's assuming your cables ain't on the way.

You've got this all turned around. The SFX/ATX mount is entirely integrated into the case panelling.

The article is wrong about there being drive mounts on the external fan mount as well. I would assume you can install your GPU from the side as is normal in cases like this, though the front cut-out makes that a lot easier if you're pushing the bounds of what can fit in the case - which is likely to happen in current designs. And that cutout is big enough that you'd need to be really clumsy to damage anything by putting the card through it.

Also, a tower heatsink will not be blowing air at the PSU whatsoever, unless you go for some weird reversed airflow setup. It will be blowing air out the back of the case.

The only weird thing here is the PSU exhaust next to the case intake, which definitely isn't ideal, but with the types of builds this can fit (not likely to exceed 300W in real-world loads), I wouldn't call that an issue. An extra 30W of heat dumped into the case under load isn't going to change much.

MusselsAnyone else utterly terrified by this?

Quite a common feature on small ITX cases where GPU length is an issue. The opening means you have tons more leeway in getting the card into place without scraping it against the front of the case during installation. See the Ncase M1, CM NR200P, etc.

aciDevStill an option for someone who doesn't need to build a stove-PC into it.

Only if it's a 35W Athlon or something like that, or if you skip a GPU.
My old LianLi had a bit more space in it, along with a big-ass 140mm intake fan, and it still managed to suffocate my i3-6100+GTX1060 throughout summer. And remember, that's a 51W CPU which never boosts past its claimed PL, and a GPU that ran at 80% PL and a custom fan curve (to compensate for heat, even in idle).

ValantarYou've got this all turned around. The SFX/ATX mount is entirely integrated into the case panelling.

Must be one helluva invisible backplate, then :D :D :D
Or maybe it's intentional, for "improved airflow"

silentbogoMust be one helluva invisible backplate, then :D :D :D
Or maybe it's intentional, for "improved airflow"

Hm? You can see that those pics have natively mounted ATX and SFX PSUs, right? So, there is no need for an adapter backplate, as it's integrated into the panelling.

I'm talking about a gaping hole at the bottom. If they really wanted to go for universal mount, could've simply extended that part by 10-15mm for non-ghetto looks, and it wouldn't hurt an ATX PSU airflow that much.

This is meant as a replacement for SG13 right? I don't see any immediate killer features...

I hate the ridiculous "gradient" style air intakes with thick chunks of plastic between each hole. Either put a proper one in or don't. The simple honeycomb ones on the old SG05 both looked and worked better without half the artsy pretentiousness. A lot easier to clean too.

silentbogoI'm talking about a gaping hole at the bottom. If they really wanted to go for universal mount, could've simply extended that part by 10-15mm for non-ghetto looks, and it wouldn't hurt an ATX PSU airflow that much.

Given that this is next to an intake fan mount and behind a cover, I don't see the issue. Nobody is ever going to see it, after all. Looks to me like they've chosen a mid-point between perfect fitment and optimal airflow. (What really piques my curiosity is why there is a screw seemingly inserted into the vent grille of that ATX PSU through one of the SFX mounts.)

BSim500I hate the ridiculous "gradient" style air intakes with thick chunks of plastic between each hole. Either put a proper one in or don't. The simple honeycomb ones on the old SG05 both looked and worked better without half the artsy pretentiousness. A lot easier to clean too.

Idk, both can have their uses, and the look of the SG05 is quite dated, so it might be difficult to sell. My main issue wit this design is the very restrictive plastic filter mesh behind the cutouts - they really should have used some better, more open mesh than that. The front looks almost entirely closed off, sadly.

YAY!!
\o/

Looks like a successor to the SG05/SG06/SG13 that we've had for years. I am a little concerned about the PSU layout. Regardless of which orientation you mount the PSU in, you're still going to have the PSU exhausting heat directly into the same front-panel void that the intake fan is going to be in, effectively dumping warm/hot air into the wrong place.

I also went to Silverstonetek.com and noticed they have an updated Sugo 15 which accommodates a layout like the SG05/SG06/SG13 but with longer GPU support.

This looks like a cool case, expect apparently 3 slot cards won't fit. 2,5 should work apparently?

edit: looking at manual, I'd probably build this to back to front airflow and maybe flip PSU to pull air from the inside

I like the look of this. ITX is too small for my uses so it would be interesting to see a mATX with a similar design but it would be fun to do a build in.

Chrispy_Looks like a successor to the SG05/SG06/SG13 that we've had for years. I am a little concerned about the PSU layout. Regardless of which orientation you mount the PSU in, you're still going to have the PSU exhausting heat directly into the same front-panel void that the intake fan is going to be in, effectively dumping warm/hot air into the wrong place.

Shouldn't be a real world issue, something like this is going to be thermally limited no matter what and if you are using a gold rated PSU thats going to be be very little heat.

aktpuThis looks like a cool case, expect apparently 3 slot cards won't fit. 2,5 should work apparently?

edit: looking at manual, I'd probably build this to back to front airflow and maybe flip PSU to pull air from the inside

That would work, but you get unfiltered air through the rear fan that way so more regular dust maintenance.

Another option with a dual-fan GPU up against the top mesh is to use the GPU's dual fans as intakes and exhaust out of both the front AND back. Intake/exhaust airflow is roughly balanced then and you're not fighting the PSU's exhaust.

OperandiShouldn't be a real world issue, something like this is going to be thermally limited no matter what and if you are using a gold rated PSU thats going to be be very little heat.

A PSU will dump out 25W of heat for a typical midrange CPU+GPU build. Not much heat - as you point out - but if you can avoid sucking it back into the case without compromising anything else then you probably should.

Chrispy_That would work, but you get unfiltered air through the rear fan that way so more regular dust maintenance.

Another option with a dual-fan GPU up against the top mesh is to use the GPU's dual fans as intakes and exhaust out of both the front AND back. Intake/exhaust airflow is roughly balanced then and you're not fighting the PSU's exhaust.

That's close to the most accepted wisdom for sandwich layout cases - top and bottom fans as exhaust so that cool air comes in the side panel and onto the GPU. Gives great thermal results in most cases, and I can't imagine the same principle not working here either. You won't even need the GPU fans to work as intakes as the negative pressure from the front and rear fans exhausting air will ensure that air comes in through that panel anyhow.

Chrispy_A PSU will dump out 25W of heat for a typical midrange CPU+GPU build. Not much heat - as you point out - but if you can avoid sucking it back into the case without compromising anything else then you probably should.

Avoiding this is generally smart, but as you say, 25W isn't a lot. It might raise case ambient temps by a few degrees, but it's unlikely to matter.

What I would like to see: a build with a high powered GPU and a high-ish-end CPU, cooled by a custom loop with a thick rad in the front (with push+pull fans? I think that should fit) and a thinner rad in the back, with both rads exhausting. 240mm of radiator area isn't much for a high end build, but it's sufficient with some tuning. Would definitely be interesting, and at 12.9 litres this would be pretty dense too.

FlankerI think the cable management will be a nightmare lol. The official page lists cpu cooler clearance of up to 172mm depending on length of PSU. Builds will depend on exact sizes of PSU, cooler and motherboard layout

This. Especially with the SFX psu in combination with the cooler, as posted on their website. I don't see how that would not interfere with the cooler even if you have custom (short) cables.


But lets wait for the TPU review.

SN2716057This. Especially with the SFX psu in combination with the cooler, as posted on their website. I don't see how that would not interfere with the cooler even if you have custom (short) cables.


But lets wait for the TPU review.

Definitely a tight fit (and one dependent on the cooler size and socket placement on the motherboard) but I think that photo is making it look tighter than it actually is due to perspective - remember, the top of the cooler is not in the same plane as the top edge of the PSU, so the picture makes the gap look smaller due to the heatsink being further "down" toward the motherboard. Look at that black bracket thingy to the right of the edge of the PSU - there's at least 3-4cm of clearance between the PSU and HSF. That's still not a lot, but more than enough to get your cables where they need to go. Still, the PSU is clearly the last thing you install in this build, with cabling already installed.

The case is 280mm long. Subtract 5mm on the rear for various panels and protrusions and 30mm on the front for that front panel, and you have a ~245mm internal length. ITX motherboards are 170mm; SFX PSUs are 100mm long, SFX-L PSUs are 125mm long. That means an SFX PSU will overhang the edge of the motherboard by ~25mm and an SFX-L PSU will overhang by ~50mm. Accounting for modular connectors adding another 15mm or so, SFX should have no issues at all as long as the HSF doesn't overhang the RAM, while SFX-L will be a squeeze, and likely only suited for water cooling. The pictured PSU is Silverstone's SX750, which is standard SFX. As with any SFF build you need to be aware of component clearances and think through your build with this, but other than that I don't see this being an actual problem.

Simples, all you need is ghost cables like this one for easy cable management:



This is definitely not a case you really want to use a tower cooler with. AIO or top-down cooler (even the Wraith Prism would do the job). A 92mm tower will probably fit just fine but you're going to be routing PSU cables around it enough that its airflow is going to be hindered by all the cables anyway.

Chrispy_Simples, all you need is ghost cables like this one for easy cable management:



This is definitely not a case you really want to use a tower cooler with. AIO or top-down cooler (even the Wraith Prism would do the job). A 92mm tower will probably fit just fine but you're going to be routing PSU cables around it enough that its airflow is going to be hindered by all the cables anyway.

You'd be surprised how little airflow is affected by tight mounting like this, as well as cables getting in the way - you need a significant, solid obstruction (i.e. not just a few cables) within 1-2cm to notably affect thermals. The main problem will be component access, as you'll have to remove the PSU to do anything at all inside of the case, which won't be trivial if you're in a tightly built system with the cooler close to the PSU - you need to get the PSU past that lip on the front panel, after all. But airflow should still be perfectly fine as long as the fan pulling air through is okay. But especially with an intake fan in the front, this should do perfectly fine for CPU cooling. As good as a huge ATX case with the same cooler? Not necessarily, but then this is a 12l case, and it's not likely to get hot enough to affect performance.

ValantarYou'd be surprised how little airflow is affected by tight mounting like this, as well as cables getting in the way - you need a significant, solid obstruction (i.e. not just a few cables) within 1-2cm to notably affect thermals. The main problem will be component access, as you'll have to remove the PSU to do anything at all inside of the case, which won't be trivial if you're in a tightly built system with the cooler close to the PSU - you need to get the PSU past that lip on the front panel, after all. But airflow should still be perfectly fine as long as the fan pulling air through is okay. But especially with an intake fan in the front, this should do perfectly fine for CPU cooling. As good as a huge ATX case with the same cooler? Not necessarily, but then this is a 12l case, and it's not likely to get hot enough to affect performance.

The main problem is that 92mm towers and taller are forced to run the fan on the reverse side of the heatsink in a pull configuration.

Even a 92mm tower will intrude into vertical front-to-back plane of an SFX PSU by a few mm, forcing you to mount the cooling fan on the other side, unless you can clip the fan lower down the heatsink and miss the top few fins.

In terms of the side-to-side plane of a 100mm-long SFX PSU, there are at most 26mm* of clearance to the front face of a tower cooler. That's not enough for a modular 24-pin cable diameter, it's connector plug, and a minimum bend radius of >0 but depending on where the 24-pin cables exit the PSU you can probably avoid contacting the heatsink by flipping the PSU orientation. Same goes for semi-modular PSUs where the 24-pin cables come out of one side, which will make clearance guaranteed, but only in one of the two fan orientations.

*I did the math based on Silverstone's stated dimensions, two mITX boards I have lying around with IO-edge-to-center-of-CPU-socket dimensions of 89 and 93mm respectively, and a 40mm wide 92mm tower that has height 125mm. For unstated dimensions (ie, difference between internal/external dimensions) I used an empty SG13 I have kicking around behind my desk to estimate front panel depth and rear expansion tab overhang.

This was so close being awesome, but I'll probably end up building next setup in Alta G1M, when GPU prices are sane again. Until then I will stick to my Fractal Era

Chrispy_The main problem is that 92mm towers and taller are forced to run the fan on the reverse side of the heatsink in a pull configuration.

Even a 92mm tower will intrude into vertical front-to-back plane of an SFX PSU by a few mm, forcing you to mount the cooling fan on the other side, unless you can clip the fan lower down the heatsink and miss the top few fins.

In terms of the side-to-side plane of a 100mm-long SFX PSU, there are at most 26mm* of clearance to the front face of a tower cooler. That's not enough for a modular 24-pin cable diameter, it's connector plug, and a minimum bend radius of >0 but depending on where the 24-pin cables exit the PSU you can probably avoid contacting the heatsink by flipping the PSU orientation. Same goes for semi-modular PSUs where the 24-pin cables come out of one side, which will make clearance guaranteed, but only in one of the two fan orientations.

*I did the math based on Silverstone's stated dimensions, two mITX boards I have lying around with IO-edge-to-center-of-CPU-socket dimensions of 89 and 93mm respectively, and a 40mm wide 92mm tower that has height 125mm. For unstated dimensions (ie, difference between internal/external dimensions) I used an empty SG13 I have kicking around behind my desk to estimate front panel depth and rear expansion tab overhang.

That illustration photo looks like it's with an AR12 cooler though (120mm tower, 50mm deep fin stack), judging by the U-shaped cutouts in the side of the heatsink, the overall size, and their stated 172mm cooler height. The fan is also pretty clearly the same as the exhaust fan right next to it, so it's definitely not a 92mm tower that's pictured. Now, I would rather just duct the exhaust fan to the cooler (especially to avoid turbulence noise from the two fans close together), but it clearly fits. Also, what do you mean "24-pin cable diameter"? Are you assuming a rounded/bundled cable? Most SFX PSUs either use ribbon-style cables, or in some cases individually sleeved wiring (like the higher end Corsiar SF series). It's a bit hard to measure in situ, but on my Corsair SF750 I would have no real issues bending the cables within 26mm from the PSU housing to the outer edge of the bent wire. The plug housings protrude from the PSU by 12mm when connected, so that's another 14mm for the bend. Not exactlyample space, but enough unless you have some extremely thick and/or stiff cabling.

Still, as I said, I see AIOs or 2x120mm rad custom loops as the best solution for this case, in which case it could do some pretty impressively dense builds. I definitely wouldn't be putting a high wattage CPU (5800X or above, any i7 or above) in there on air without expecting to do some undervolting and/or downclocking.

aktpuThis was so close being awesome, but I'll probably end up building next setup in Alta G1M, when GPU prices are sane again. Until then I will stick to my Fractal Era

The Alta is pretty cool, but it is 2.5x the volume of this, so it's not quite in the same class :) How is the Era treating you? Those were pretty universally panned in reviews from what I saw - really pretty, but terrible thermals compared to the SFF competition. Really like the design though, I hope they make a v2 at some point.