Vayra86Its not sold out.

The 4090 is sold out in plenty of countries.

TheLostSwedeThe new boards weren't meant to be this expensive. There were plans for sub $150 B650 boards, but clearly something happened between Computex and launch.

Any theories on what it may have been?

Mobo prices seem way too high to explain with "just" inflation.

TheLostSwedeThe 4090 is sold out in plenty of countries.

Sold out is overstating it. Have been seeing stock sell out & get replenished pretty well much continuously.

spnidelI do; your point being? does having that option preclude the ability to be disappointed by a new generation of CPUs? or should understanding that I don't have to upgrade somehow change my opinion of the very high entry cost?

this "you don't have to upgrade" cope doesn't change the fact that the performance uplift is minimal this generation and is only worth it to those that have super outdated systems running pre-AM4 machines or DDR3 setups or those that don't have a PC at all

performance-wise, the jump from 3000 to 5000 is more significant than 5000 to 7000, and that's VERY disappointing, considering that these chips use DDR5

granted the performance uplift is still better than when all AMD had to offer was faildozer, but still...

My point being that while you said that you have the choice, you basically don’t sound like what you said. Again, if performance is bad, look away. If price is bad, look away. No companies can miraculously create great products consistently. Think Intel not too long ago with Skylake, Kaby Lake, Coffee Lake, Comet Lake and Rocket Lake, isn‘t that proof? I basically jumped from Skylake, skipped everything else and ended with Comet Lake, and now Alder Lake. The products in between are not meaningful upgrades.

If you observe, CPUs and SOCs of recent years generally post unmeaningful gain in performance while sucking a lot more power. Intel appears to buck the trend with Alder Lake, but that is because people tend to compare it to a low bar set by Rocket Lake. Comparing it with Zen 3, it is faster no doubt, but that’s mostly down to having the E-cores to support the big cores. Looking at the upcoming Raptor Lake, the IPC gains are not great either. The point I am driving at is that the fabs are not shrinking the nodes like its really 7nm to 5nm. Those are just some marketing numbers. Nobody really knows what you are getting other than the fabs themselves. So we have probably hit a bottleneck here where increasing performance = to pushing higher power. And there is a limit as to how much power you can push. Intel probably set the record if 350W is allowed on a retail CPU.

By the time I want to upgrade my 5600X AM5 will probably be EOL. Even for new buyers AM4 looks more appetizing. The cost of the new boards and DDR5 is a bite on the arse.

watzupkenMy point being that while you said that you have the choice, you basically don’t sound like what you said. Again, if performance is bad, look away. If price is bad, look away. No companies can miraculously create great products consistently. Think Intel not too long ago with Skylake, Kaby Lake, Coffee Lake, Comet Lake and Rocket Lake, isn‘t that proof? I basically jumped from Skylake, skipped everything else and ended with Comet Lake, and now Alder Lake. The products in between are not meaningful upgrades.

If you observe, CPUs and SOCs of recent years generally post unmeaningful gain in performance while sucking a lot more power. Intel appears to buck the trend with Alder Lake, but that is because people tend to compare it to a low bar set by Rocket Lake. Comparing it with Zen 3, it is faster no doubt, but that’s mostly down to having the E-cores to support the big cores. Looking at the upcoming Raptor Lake, the IPC gains are not great either. The point I am driving at is that the fabs are not shrinking the nodes like its really 7nm to 5nm. Those are just some marketing numbers. Nobody really knows what you are getting other than the fabs themselves. So we have probably hit a bottleneck here where increasing performance = to pushing higher power. And there is a limit as to how much power you can push. Intel probably set the record if 350W is allowed on a retail CPU.

What disgusts me is the mob mentality and unrealistic expectations internet denizens have. They watch these companies circumvent such limitations with impressive effort and then act like they deserve it for cheaper or free. GPUs were hitting a limit with traditional rasterization and the whole internet was trying to devalue RTX. Now it's in consoles and the main competitor. Nvidia delivered one of the greatest jumps in modern history with the 4090, and people should definitely be more grateful.

TheLostSwedeThe 4090 is sold out in plenty of countries.

Sold out, but the question is to whom? Scalpers? And how many units were sold, I think nobody knows. With miners gone, the only people that will buy the RTX 4090 are people that have always been buying these halo products. Most other enthusiasts seeing the high performance of the RTX 4090 will likely be waiting for the RTX 4080 16GB instead if they are looking for any upgrade. But I feel the demand will not sustain given that most people are now concerned about the growing inflation and also increasing cost of credit.

HTCAny theories on what it may have been?

Mobo prices seem way too high to explain with "just" inflation.

Yeah, obviously the board makers put up their MSRP, but in general, that should only be by 10-15% on most SKUs, with some exceptions. The rest is the distribution and retail companies taking a larger cut than before. I only have info from the board makers, but I got sent the MSRP for some SKUs and they were up to $100 less than the current retail prices.

While some people jump the gun gloating and cheering AMD's lower sales i advise everyone to look at stock prices for Intel and Nvidia, all low and continue to drop, they too have problems and low sales.
It's not AMD's fault, it's just a dying market or at least with much fewer customers than once was.
I know, platform cost is huge but that could become normal, with the constant rising of inflation the dollar is not worth that much anymore.

CammSold out is overstating it. Have been seeing stock sell out & get replenished pretty well much continuously.

Haven't checked today, but zero cards in Sweden this past weekend.

watzupkenMy point being that while you said that you have the choice, you basically don’t sound like what you said.

what am I reading

Again, if performance is bad, look away. If price is bad, look away.

that's what I'm doing... though I don't remember signing a contract that prevents me from sharing my thoughts on a product if I find it to suck.

the rest of your post is just word salad, sorry

TheLostSwedeHaven't checked today, but zero cards in Sweden this past weekend.

You'd expect as much, its the weekend :P. Saw a full restock of most models here in Australia on Monday, and have had restocks throughout last week as well after launch.

I'm demanding a 7600X but can't afford all the extra's with it.

CammYou'd expect as much, its the weekend :p. Saw a full restock of most models here in Australia on Monday, and have had restocks throughout last week as well after launch.

Still zero cards here, just checked.

To be fair this is the expected result of the current economic outlook.

There is the thought process in my mind that if tuned these would sell quite well in OEM channels for work based Desktops due to power draw and desktop performance. There is the thought though that due to Work From Home most businesses are transitioning to laptop based solutions. Now where AMD will dominate will be the small box Windows./Linux PCs and handhelds. The Steam Deck is a great example. I dream of a powerful PC that I can put in my suitcase that I can take on a plane. The X3D chips should not have been confirmed as I transitioned from a 5950X to a 5800X3D in my main rig and absolutely love it for Gaming. A 7000 series chip with Vcache and tuned to 105 W should be epic. Basically a 5800X3D running at 5.2 GHZ or some such. When a new CPU is released so are new MBs. That means the current crop of boards should have some price pressure. As an example of how crazy prices currently are look at this.

www.newegg.ca/clx-tgmsetrth2a01bm/p/3D5-000B-002N2?Description=4090&cm_re=4090-_-9SIACY7JNB4213-_-Product

What is the travesty is the case, storage and RAM could not be more than $500 and a Windows licence doesn't really count. So the other $5700 is for the CPU, GPU and MB.

Even if you wanted to do it yourself it would still be too much for a minor (currently) jump in performance as DLSS3 is in less than 1% off all Games. vs for AM4 users below 5900x would see the same in Gaming by side grading to the 5800X3D.

TheLostSwedeYeah, obviously the board makers put up their MSRP, but in general, that should only be by 10-15% on most SKUs, with some exceptions. The rest is the distribution and retail companies taking a larger cut than before. I only have info from the board makers, but I got sent the MSRP for some SKUs and they were up to $100 less than the current retail prices.

When Alder Lake was launched and mobo prices were unexpectedly high, you wrote a report stating that CPU socket were a very expensive component, contributing a lot to the price. Are we looking at a similar case again with AM5?

fancuckerWhat disgusts me is the mob mentality and unrealistic expectations internet denizens have. They watch these companies circumvent such limitations with impressive effort and then act like they deserve it for cheaper or free. GPUs were hitting a limit with traditional rasterization and the whole internet was trying to devalue RTX. Now it's in consoles and the main competitor. Nvidia delivered one of the greatest jumps in modern history with the 4090, and people should definitely be more grateful.

40 FPS @ 4K Ultra in CP2077 is one of the greatest jumps? The 4090 is not a 2080TI in terms of jumps either.

Back when ZEN started, we also had to change board + CPU + "average" RAM. Anyone care to compare prices of all 3 items using the 7600X VS the 1600X?

I'd guess the price is more than double now VS then (launch prices).

Vayra86Its not sold out.

It is here.

The RAM prices are not a big problem, the big problem is price of motherboard. With AM4 prices used to be from 100 to 300 USD rarely more. Now? it starts with 300 USD and rises to usuall 500 USD and some even cost 1000 USD... What to say more to that...

kapone32There is the thought though that due to Work From Home most businesses are transitioning to laptop based solutions.

WFH and Covid notwithstanding, that's the general long term trend, so a wise AMD would consider 7000H and 7000U series a prioritiy now, not X3D.

WirkoWhen Alder Lake was launched and mobo prices were unexpectedly high, you wrote a report stating that CPU socket were a very expensive component, contributing a lot to the price. Are we looking at a similar case again with AM5?

That's one of many parts that's likely to have increased motherboard costs overall, although I haven't been given any specifics, but I should ask around.
As I mentioned the MSRP of some of the high-end SKUs have incrased by as much as $100, so every step in the chain before you end up buing a board, has tagged on extra profits.
Some of the blame, from what I understand, in the case of AM5 boards, is that the board makers don't get any kind of MDF (Market Development Fund) from AMD, whereas Intel is quite generous with their MDF and it's seen as an important source of revenue for the board makers. This could at least in part, be why the board makers hiked the board prices, but I guess they didn't anticipate everyone else to also take a bigger cut than in the past, which has lead us to the current situation.

I just looked over the data I got from Computex and the most basic, stripped down B650 board I have pricing for, was supposed to have an MSRP of $120, with another five SKUs under $200. I honestly don't have the full picture, but something has gone seriously wrong.

This board is at the new MSRP, but it was most likely supposed to be lower, but not much lower, as even with the "old" pricing I had, this board is likely to have been over $250, but under $300 and it's retailing for $290, which is the curent MSRP.
www.newegg.com/gigabyte-x670-aorus-elite-ax/p/N82E16813145406

WavetrexImagine reducing prices to increase demand, lol !

This is an excellent idea. The current prices are robbery, and they must be lowered.

watzupkenWhen you said sold out, do you know how many units were sold? You need to remember, the RTX 4090 is a halo product, that not many people will buy in the lifetime of the product. The production will also be low because that is normal demand. The RTX 3090 was a different story because of scalping, mining, and a desperation from gamers to snap up anything that they can find.

Also, while it is true that Ryzen 5000 was the fastest CPU then, but honestly, if you get one of the Ryzen 7000 CPU now, it is still factually still one of the fastest. Perhaps Raptor Lake may change that, but it still doesn’t change the fact that Ryzen 7000 is still a very fast CPU. Intel can slap 16 or 24 or 32 E-cores in there. While the helped bump up multithreaded performance, the E-cores spamming don’t do anything meaningful for you if you are using the chip for gaming. They just look great when showing you numbers. Even in light us case where only E-cores are being used, I generally don’t think you need anything more than 4 cores for light usage. Make no mistake, I am using an Alder Lake CPU now, so please don’t assume I am defending AMD because I am some AMD fanboy. I have outgrown this fanboyism and learned to buy what I need and best value for money.

That's the reasoning that AMD uses... unfortunately, that doesn't make Zen 4 more compelling currently. There's only a small portion of people that will splurge for the 7950x, and those same people will sell it and buy the 7950x3d when it comes out.

The Ryzen 5000 CPU was in a league that was completely unmatched with very little platform cost -- the 5600x was beating out the 10900K in some benchmarks-- it was a hugely compelling product.

My argument is simply that 7000 isn't compelling below the flagship-- where the 7000 X3D and AM5 as a whole will be HUGELY compelling. But anything apart from the 7950x doesn't really make sense right now. This will become apparent when the V cache versions come out and the price/demand for 7000 completely tanks between the i5 raptor lakes, used alder lakes, and 7000 v cache.