Saturday, December 3rd 2022

RTX 4090 has Issues with Need for Speed Unbound that can Only be Fixed with a VBIOS Update

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Dec 2nd, 2022 07:05 Updated: Dec 3rd, 2022 11:09 Discuss (108 Comments)

Need for Speed Unbound (NFS Unbound), the latest entry to the popular genre-defining race sim by EA that launched today, unearthed a problem with the NVIDIA GeForce RTX 4090 "Ada" graphics card that cannot be fixed by simply updating the drivers or the game. This is a world-first—never before has a game required a VBIOS update to work around problems.

According to EA, the title exhibits a display flashing/blinking issue on machines powered by the RTX 4090, which requires a firmware update (i.e. video BIOS update). Luckily, this doesn't involve putting your RTX 4090 through a nerve-racking NVFlash manual BIOS update process (not that there's any risk with most RTX 4090 cards shipping with dual-BIOS). NVIDIA has released a fully-automated Firmware Update Tool that can be run from within Windows, which easily updates the video BIOS of the RTX 4090. We confirmed that it is in fact the video BIOS that is being updated (by comparing the VBIOS dumps before and after using the tool).

Update Dec 3rd: EA Support has just updated their support recommendation from graphics card VBIOS update to a motherboard BIOS update. "After testing, we've found a solution is to upgrade the motherboard BIOS. Please refer to your motherboard manufacturer's support page to obtain the latest system BIOS," the updated recommendation reads.

What's interesting is that the tool does not break the factory-overclock or custom power-limits set by NVIDIA's add-in card (AIC) partners for custom-design cards, which we confirmed by running the tool on a Palit RTX 4090 GameRock OC and the NVIDIA Founders Edition card. It seems the tool is designed to work universally on all RTX 4090 cards, not only specific boards. The tool is somehow able to update a specific area of the video BIOS without changing the BIOS version, its build date, or custom settings by AICs, and while the BIOS checksum is definitely changing, it is somehow not affecting its digital signature. This means NVIDIA seems to have a way of updating specific sections of the video BIOS conveniently from within Windows, without affecting its all-important digital signature that helps preventing the machine from running with tampered firmware.

Sources: NVIDIA Firmware Updater, Need for Speed Known Issues

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108 Comments on RTX 4090 has Issues with Need for Speed Unbound that can Only be Fixed with a VBIOS Update

#76

OneMoar

There is Always Moar

upgrade WHAT motherboard bios
for WHAT chipset
for WHAT CPU
jesus EA could you be more incompetent

so what are YOU doing wrong with YOUR code thats causing this problem

because a bios update is not something YOU a 3D party software vendor ever recommend

YOU (EA) and (Your) software are doing something horribly incorrect for this issue to even happen

#77

Sora

OneMoarupgrade WHAT motherboard bios
for WHAT chipset
for WHAT CPU
jesus EA could you be more incompetent

so what are YOU doing wrong with YOUR code thats causing this problem

because a bios update is not something YOU a 3D party software vendor ever recommend

YOU (EA) and (Your) software are doing something horribly incorrect for this issue to even happen

the blinking is a TDR
the mobo bios update is for intel 12th and 13th gen boards to fix an issue with the RTX 40 parts.

z790 strix e
Version 0703
> 2. Fix the driver compatibility issue with NVIDIA RTX40 series cards

MusselsCould this be related to DP/HDMI/audio standards? Thats the sort of thing a universal updater has worked easily for in the past

no.

#78

Mussels

Freshwater Moderator

So it's an intel BIOS bug, but no one wants to upset intels lawyers and say that?

#79

OneMoar

There is Always Moar

No its a game engine doing something horribly incorrect bug rather then fix there crap engine they would rather blame a completely unrelated issue

#80

Sora

MusselsSo it's an intel BIOS bug, but no one wants to upset intels lawyers and say that?

its probably left vague because similar issues can manifest as a result of outdated bios on any mainboard, AMD included.

a few RTX 40 owners have noticed issues with other games prior to the mobo bios update.

OneMoarNo its a game engine doing something horribly incorrect bug rather then fix there crap engine they would rather blame a completely unrelated issue

It's not.

#81

Dirt Chip

puma99dk|This is the price we always pay for anything new.

If you want the ironed version wait 6 month and pay double :roll:

I`ll wait 6 years and get the enhanced edition for free.

#82

Tartaros

Isn't this the game where its CM was making edgy snarks at people who criticized EA doing the 3 day early access for deluxe edition?

Dirt ChipI`ll wait 6 years and get the enhanced edition for free.

One year and it will be on humble bundle.

#83

Vayra86

Investigative journalism here all of a sudden, wow :)

Storm in teacup?

#84

Ravenmaster

Some motherboards didn’t even detect some 4090 cards when they first came out. EVGA issued a motherboard BIOS update which Disabled Above 4G Decoding and Re-BAR. It Also Enabled CSM. This allowed their Z690 motherboards to detect the 4090 FE and other 4090 models.

Later Nvidia released the VBIOS mentioned in this thread to properly fix the problem. After installing the VBIOS update, users were then able to go back into their motherboards and turn on Above 4G Decoding and ReBAR then Disable CSM to get everything working and back to normal.

So EA isn’t quite right with their assessment. Users should update their motherboards AND update the GPU’s VBIOS for a proper fix.

#85

1d10t

Soraits probably left vague because similar issues can manifest as a result of outdated bios on any mainboard, AMD included.

a few RTX 40 owners have noticed issues with other games prior to the mobo bios update.

It's not.

Funny things is, I assume all motherboard got this update regarding this issues. Mind you that BIOS dated back to October 2022.

I suggest if you don't have RTX 4090 don't bother upgrading, my system has now become unstable, my card doesn't allow going below 1v like it used to and USB C hub randomly disconnected ( well duh, obvious)

#86

Totally

articlepopular genre-defining race sim by EA

Race sim? That ain't it chief. How about arcade racer? Even genre-defining is definitely a stretch as saying that is outright dismissing what came before it and its contemporaries. Only truthful part of that sentence is "popular" and "by EA."

#87

reticulex

How do I flash it if I used a different manufacturer bios ? Do I need to get that bios thats been updated ? Im a 4090 windforce user that flashed to a 4090 gaming oc bios.

#88

zlobby

AsRockBut they still doing the shit, Hint 3060 8GB and the 3060 12GB.

But games like Porsche unleashed are not what they aim to make, another comes to mine GT Sports Car. Now that's when they were fun.

Porsche Unleashed deserves a remake! With all the new game engines and VFX goodies, plus the new Porsche line it would be epic! Heck, I might just buy it!

RavenmasterSome motherboards didn’t even detect some 4090 cards when they first came out. EVGA issued a motherboard BIOS update which Disabled Above 4G Decoding and Re-BAR. It Also Enabled CSM. This allowed their Z690 motherboards to detect the 4090 FE and other 4090 models.

Later Nvidia released the VBIOS mentioned in this thread to properly fix the problem. After installing the VBIOS update, users were then able to go back into their motherboards and turn on Above 4G Decoding and ReBAR then Disable CSM to get everything working and back to normal.

So EA isn’t quite right with their assessment. Users should update their motherboards AND update the GPU’s VBIOS for a proper fix.

Imagine how bad their code must be to be crashed so easily by some program in userland...

#89

watzupken

zlobbyThat's the nvidia premuim that you get for the price. Plus all the other bonuses.

Objectively, this is an early adopter problem. When Ampere was first released, there were a lot of issues as well. Though I have to agree that it is odd for a game to require some sort of messing around with the vBIOs. May be there's too much "smarts" in the Ada Lovelace line of GPUs that is causing problem. But at least is it not killing cards like with the game, New World.

#90

Mussels

Freshwater Moderator

reticulexHow do I flash it if I used a different manufacturer bios ? Do I need to get that bios thats been updated ? Im a 4090 windforce user that flashed to a 4090 gaming oc bios.

You don't need to, the update stated it was in fact a compatibility issue with motherboards

This tool seems related to UEFI boot content which is universal, so it wont matter what BIOS you've flashed to - you just may need to run it again, if you swap to another BIOS

#91

Sora

RavenmasterSo EA isn’t quite right with their assessment. Users should update their motherboards AND update the GPU’s VBIOS for a proper fix.

No.

#92

Kyan

eidairaman1Ffs gran tourismo never handled realistically, stiff as hell steering, that is not how true vehicles behave.

Gt is not a sim but a sham

Where did i mention GT ? Calling GT a racing sim is not as outrageous as calling NFS a racing sim, no matter how GT can't have a proper steering simulation (i've never played a GT game but from what i've eared it's not as arcadish as NFS).

#93

venturi

Think everyone lost their objectivity

first - EA is saying that their game is requiring first a v bios update to fix issues, now it’s a motherboard bios update…

2nd- it’s not unique to 4090 or 3090, it’s unique to this EA game

3rd - objectively, unless other devs have the same exact issues - it’s the EA game

4th - no specific issue was identified by EA, no specific boards, no specific chipset, no reporting of specific instances, no specific bios builds, etc

Why did this even get published just to confuse folks? it’s conjectural at best and has been continually modified.

#94

zlobby

venturiThink everyone lost their objectivity

first - EA is saying that their game is requiring first a v bios update to fix issues, now it’s a motherboard bios update…

2nd- it’s not unique to 4090 or 3090, it’s unique to this EA game

3rd - objectively, unless other devs have the same exact issues - it’s the EA game

4th - no specific issue was identified by EA, no specific boards, no specific chipset, no reporting of specific instances, no specific bios builds, etc

Why did this even get published just to confuse folks? it’s conjectural at best and has been continually modified.

EA, it's in the game! (tm)

#95

Sora

venturi2nd- it’s not unique to 4090 or 3090, it’s unique to this EA game

its unique to 40 series in general on all games with low intensity loading screens that can drop back to idle clocks, on PCIE 4.0 systems.

#96

venturi

Soraits unique to 40 series in general on all games with low intensity loading screens that can drop back to idle clocks, on PCIE 4.0 systems.

Thank you for clarifying, I was unaware of this issue and had never seen it before,
I”m still unclear where it was actually pragmatically identified,

I’m currently using two 4090 and have not seen the issues reported, and is the only game with this issue?

#97

Sora

venturiI’m currently using two 4090 and have not seen the issues reported, and is the only game with this issue?

Only Zen4, and Alder/Raptorlake should be affected, its the only boards that RTX 40 compatibility updates have been released for.

#98

chaoshusky

AssimilatorFroggy, did you read the article?

It's not a mere BIOS flash, it's quite literally modifying the existing BIOS in-place. Unless the digital signature only applies to a portion of the BIOS (which doesn't appear to be the case from what we know), then this tool appears to be accomplishing the holy grail of BIOS modding that NVIDIA users have been searching for since Pascal.

Would NVIDIA be dumb enough to release something like this? Who knows, they've done stupid shit in the past, and maybe with the current negativity towards the RTX 4000 series (prices + 4090 melting adapter saga) they decided that pissing off AIBs and customers by requiring a BIOS update so early in the product cycle, would be more of a problem than dropping a quick-and-easy updater.

Let's see what the reverse engineers are able to glean from this.

A game that literally did not exist at the time that the RTX 4090 was released, and triggers a firmware bug in the 4090, means that the 4090 is beta quality.

Or to put it more simply, because NVIDIA lacks the possibility to travel forward in time to test games that don't yet exist against their new hardware, they make beta-quality products.

I just... wow. The logic is just astounding. In the worst way possible.

Some of us had to wait for a BIOS patch to enable ReBAR, nobody remember that? And back then, each partner had to release their own tool for their own card! I guess nVidia developed things a little more so they can issue a core fix for any card, which makes sense. The OEM/AIB doesn't change a whole lot outside the scope of power limits, fan curve etc.. They likely don't even have access to the source code or any reason to mess with the internal workings of nVidia's custom firmware. And now suddenly its a motherboard BIOS update? Sounds more to me like the EA devs found yet a new way to code badly and access things in a non-standard way which requires firmware level updates to handle on a hardware level! Think of New World catching out mostly EVGA using lower quality components, others bringing to light PCB errors...all because they made GPUs spike in power more than any other game or application thanks to bad coding! They were doing API Calls and draws completely wrong...result? Fire!

#99

Mussels

Freshwater Moderator

chaoshuskySome of us had to wait for a BIOS patch to enable ReBAR, nobody remember that? And back then, each partner had to release their own tool for their own card! I guess nVidia developed things a little more so they can issue a core fix for any card, which makes sense. The OEM/AIB doesn't change a whole lot outside the scope of power limits, fan curve etc.. They likely don't even have access to the source code or any reason to mess with the internal workings of nVidia's custom firmware. And now suddenly its a motherboard BIOS update? Sounds more to me like the EA devs found yet a new way to code badly and access things in a non-standard way which requires firmware level updates to handle on a hardware level! Think of New World catching out mostly EVGA using lower quality components, others bringing to light PCB errors...all because they made GPUs spike in power more than any other game or application thanks to bad coding! They were doing API Calls and draws completely wrong...result? Fire!

Considering we have an entire thread about 4090's breaking office entirely, i'd say the 40 series cards have some teething issues

They're also the first PCI-E 5.0 GPU's and have power issues, so updates could come along for so, so many reasons

#100

Sora

MusselsThey're also the first PCI-E 5.0 GPU's and have power issues, so updates could come along for so, so many reasons

no they aren't.

Hybrid Gen 4 with 12vhpwr.

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RTX 4090 has Issues with Need for Speed Unbound that can Only be Fixed with a VBIOS Update

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