Wednesday, January 4th 2023

AMD Ryzen 7000X3D Announced, Claims Total Dominance over Intel "Raptor Lake," Upcoming i9-13900KS Deterred

AMD today announced its Ryzen 7000X3D "Zen 4" desktop processors with 3D Vertical Cache technology. With these, the company is claiming to have the world's fastest processors for gaming. The company claims to have beaten the Intel Core i9-13900K "Raptor Lake" in gaming, by a margin it feels comfortable to remain competitive with against even the upcoming Core i9-13900KS. At the heart of these processors is the new "Zen 4" 3D Vertical Cache (3DV cache) CCD, which features 64 MB of L3 cache stacked on top of the region of the "Zen 4" CCD that has the on-die 32 MB L3 cache. The 3DV cache runs at the same speed as the on-die L3 cache, and is contiguous with it. The CPU cores see 96 MB of transparent addressable L3 cache.

3DV cache is proven to have a profound impact on gaming performance with the Ryzen 7 5800X3D "Zen 3" processor that helped it beat "Alder Lake" in gaming workloads despite "Zen 3" being a generationally older microarchitecture; and AMD claims to have repeated this magic with the 7000X3D "Zen 4" series, enabling it to beat Intel "Raptor Lake." Unlike with the 5800X3D, AMD don't intend to make gaming performance a trade-off for multi-threaded creator performance, and so it is introducing even 12-core and 16-core SKUs, so you get gaming performance alongside plenty of muscle for creator workloads.
The series consists of three SKUs, the 8-core/16-thread Ryzen 7 7800X3D, the 12-core/24-thread Ryzen 9 7900X3D, and the flagship 16-core/32-thread Ryzen 9 7950X3D. The 7800X3D comes with an unknown base frequency above the 4.00 GHz-mark, along with up to 5.00 GHz boost. The 7900X3D has 4.40 GHz base frequency, and up to 5.60 GHz boost. The flagship 7950X3D ticks at 4.20 GHz base, and boosts up to 5.70 GHz.

There's something interesting about the cache setup of the three SKUs. The 7800X3D has 104 MB of total cache (L2+L3), whereas the 7900X3D has 140 MB and the 7950X3D has 144 MB. The 8-core CCD in the 7800X3D has 64 MB of 3DV cache stacked on top of the 32 MB on-die L3 cache, resulting in 96 MB of L3 cache, and with each of the 8 cores having 1 MB of L2 cache, we arrive at 104 MB total cache. Logically, the 7900X3D and 7950X3D should have 204-208 MB of total cache, but they don't.

While we await more details from AMD on what's happening here, there are two theories—one holds that the 3DV cache for the 7900X3D and 7950X3D is just 32 MB per chiplet, or 64 MB L3 cache per CCD. 140 MB total cache for the 7900X3D would hence come from ((2 x 64 MB L3) + (12 x 1 MB L2)); and for the 7950X3D this would be ((2 x 64 MB L3) + (16 x 1 MB L2)).

The second more radical theory holds that only one of the two CCDs has 64 MB of 3DV cache stacked on top of the on-die 32 MB L3 cache, and the other is a conventional "Zen 4" CCD with just 32 MB of on-die L3 cache. The math checks out. Dating all the way back to the Ryzen 3000 "Zen 2" Matisse dual-CCD processors, AMD has worked with Microsoft to optimize Windows 10 and Windows 11 schedulers to localize gaming workloads to one of the two CCDs (using methods such as CPPC2 preferred-core flagging), so if these processors indeed have an asymmetric L3 cache setup between the two CCDs, the one with the 3DV cache would be preferred by the OS for gaming workloads.

In its presentation, AMD uses the term "the world's best gaming processor" with the 7800X3D and not the 7950X3D. This should mean that despite its lower maximum boost frequency, the 7800X3D should offer the best gaming performance among the three SKUs, and very likely features 96 MB of L3 cache for the CCD; whereas the 7900X3D and 7950X3D feature either lower amounts of 3DV cache per CCD, or that asymmetric L3 cache setup we theorized.
In terms of performance, AMD is claiming anywhere between 21% to 30% gaming performance gains for the 7800X3D over the previous-generation 5800X3D. This can be associated with the IPC increase of the "Zen 4" core, and faster DDR5 memory. AMD claims that the 7800X3D should particularly shine with CPU-limited gaming scenarios, such as lower-resolution high refresh-rate setups.

The 7950X3D is claimed to beat the Core i9-13900K in gaming performance by anywhere between 13% to 24% in the four tests AMD showed, while also offering big gains in multi-threaded productivity benchmarks. Especially in workloads involving large streaming data, such as file-compression and DaVinci Resolve, the 7950X3D is shown offering between 24% to 52% performance leads over the i9-13900K (which we doubt the i9-13900KS can make up for).

The Ryzen 7000X3D processors will be available from February 2023, and should be drop-in compatible with existing Socket AM5 motherboards, with some boards requiring a BIOS update. The USB BIOS Flashback feature is standardized by AMD across motherboard brands, so this shouldn't be a problem.
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177 Comments on AMD Ryzen 7000X3D Announced, Claims Total Dominance over Intel "Raptor Lake," Upcoming i9-13900KS Deterred

#26
btarunr
Editor & Senior Moderator
caroline!why does everything has to be for gaming


MEH.
They showed us productivity benchmarks versus 13900K, and I don't think 13900KS can beat 7950X3D in productivity.
Posted on Reply
#27
djuice
caroline!why does everything has to be for gaming


MEH.
But there are other solutions for other task, like you do productivity work, there is ThreadRipper, and EPYC line of processors, while gaming is still very cache and single threaded workload
Posted on Reply
#28
Mussels
Freshwater Moderator
Cant wait for userbench to shit on these
caroline!why does everything has to be for gaming


MEH.
What?
Why come to the one post about the gaming products and whine about it?
btarunror that asymmetric L3 cache setup we theorized.
I had a lot of people talking trash at me when i theorised that's how multi-CCX x3D chips would be designed, as as a different big.little approach
Intel proved you dont need matching instruction sets or caches or anything - just slap em in and watch em go.

If they support the same IO die, they can mix and match any of their CPU designs.
Posted on Reply
#30
kapone32
When they release my biggest issue is do I get the 12 core or 16 core. -
Posted on Reply
#31
Space Lynx
Astronaut
kapone32When they release my biggest issue is do I get the 12 core or 16 core. -
you won't get any, cause the scalpers are already salivating, they get so few choice products these days to exploit, assholes that they are.
Posted on Reply
#32
kapone32
Space Lynxyou won't get any, cause the scalpers are already salivating, they get so few choice products these days to exploit, assholes that they are.
Scalpers can kma. I have a friend at one of my local PC shops that will be happy to reserve one for me.
Posted on Reply
#34
kapone32
Dyatlov AOnly 5GHz for 7800X?
Imagine a 5800X3D at 5Ghz on even a single core.
Posted on Reply
#35
Crackong
Running an 7600x and I am ready for the X3D drop-in
Posted on Reply
#36
Hyderz
CrackongRunning an 7600x and I am ready for the X3D drop-in
not to rain down on your upgrade but would you even notice the upgrade at all if you drop in the 3Dv cpus
Posted on Reply
#37
kapone32
Hyderznot to rain down on your upgrade but would you even notice the upgrade at all if you drop in the 3Dv cpus
If 5000 is anything to go by Yes.
Posted on Reply
#38
phanbuey
let's see the launch - the new AMD loves to kneecap themselves with weird marketing and high prices.
Posted on Reply
#39
Max(IT)
AMD claims… that’s the keyword.
caroline!why does everything has to be for gaming


MEH.
Because it’s the only “high numbers” market where they can apply marketing…
Not so many customers doing extensive video editing out there, for instance.
Posted on Reply
#40
Lionheart
Icy1007FFXIV doesn’t pose any problem for most modern CPUs anyway. Lol

I get no fps drops even in Limsa with my 13900K at 4K.


Yes, yes it is. The 13900K dominates all Ryzen 7000 chips at 4K (and all others) with a 4090.
No it doesn't dominate it, stop with the BS, the 13900k has the lead it most gaming titles but not by a lot.
Posted on Reply
#41
phanbuey
LionheartNo it doesn't dominate it, stop with the BS, the 13900k has the lead it most gaming titles but not by a lot.
depends, at max overclocks it kind of does in some games (modern warfare etc). Stock settings not so much. I do fully expect X3D 7000 to crush raptor lake tho.
Posted on Reply
#43
Lovec1990
Do not burn me on stake but anyways:

if 5800X3D vs 12700K is any indication then 7800X3D will not be better buy than 13700K. reason i see is price/performance incase of 5800X3D you gain in avg. 3% better gaming performance and lose on avg. 13% performance in applications compared to 12700K, but yeah 5800X3D is not as power hungry as 12700K.
Posted on Reply
#44
Mussels
Freshwater Moderator
Lovec1990Do not burn me on stake but anyways:

if 5800X3D vs 12700K is any indication then 7800X3D will not be better buy than 13700K. reason i see is price/performance incase of 5800X3D you gain in avg. 3% better gaming performance and lose on avg. 13% performance in applications compared to 12700K, but yeah 5800X3D is not as power hungry as 12700K.
Stop looking at maximum FPS figures and look where the 3D cache matters, the lows

Posted on Reply
#45
The Von Matrices
Space Lynxyou won't get any, cause the scalpers are already salivating, they get so few choice products these days to exploit, assholes that they are.
If the regular Ryzen 7000 series is representative, then supply won't be a problem. It will be even less of a problem if AMD prices it too high like they initially did for the 7000 series.
Posted on Reply
#46
sLowEnd
The lack of price details is concerning. I don't expect these to be very good value at launch.
Posted on Reply
#47
Space Lynx
Astronaut
sLowEndThe lack of price details is concerning. I don't expect these to be very good value at launch.
Early adopters always have to pay more.
Posted on Reply
#48
sLowEnd
Space LynxEarly adopters always have to pay more.
Often, yes. But in the context of the presentation, I've got a feeling they're trying to avoid sticker shock. Nobody really expects these to be cheap, but these are probably going to be more expensive than most people think.
Posted on Reply
#49
phanbuey
my guess $599 for the 7800X3D and $899 for 7950X3D it's going to be on average between 15-20% faster than 13700K/13900K
Posted on Reply
#50
JustBenching
Icy1007The 13900K will still be faster in gaming.
Marginally probably, yeah. Especially with really fast 7400 to 8000mhz ram, yes it will be, but it will be really close
Lovec1990Do not burn me on stake but anyways:

if 5800X3D vs 12700K is any indication then 7800X3D will not be better buy than 13700K. reason i see is price/performance incase of 5800X3D you gain in avg. 3% better gaming performance and lose on avg. 13% performance in applications compared to 12700K, but yeah 5800X3D is not as power hungry as 12700K.
Of course, the 13700k (let alone the 13700f) will spank the crap out of the 7800x 3d in terms of price to performance, both in gaming but more so in productivity.
MusselsStop looking at maximum FPS figures and look where the 3D cache matters, the lows

Very reliable result, the 12700k has better lows than the 13900k, lol.
Posted on Reply
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