Thursday, January 19th 2023

ASRock Returns to its Roots with Wacky X670 Upgrade Card

For those that don't remember the early days of ASRock, the company started out making some rather unusual motherboards, often with some wild and wacky upgrade paths, such as both a slot and a socket for a CPU or both AGP and PCIe graphics card slots. Since then, ASRock has become a much more mainstream motherboard maker, but the company appears to have gone back to its roots with what the company calls the X670 Xpansion Kit. Right now, the expansion card appears to be working with the B650 LiveMixer motherboard and it's unknown if it's compatible with other models from ASRock. It seems to be limited to ASRock motherboards only, due to the fact that the add-in card requires not only a x4 PCIe slot with all lanes attached, on the motherboard, but also a custom cable that is most likely for "low-speed" I/O's such as I2C, SPI and so on.

As the name suggests, the X670 Xpansion Kit allows B650 motherboards to be turned into X670 motherboards, more or less. The card is home to a second chipset, which enables not only two additional M.2 slots for PCIe 4.0 NVMe SSDs, but it also features two SATA ports, a 10 Gbps USB-C port, three USB-A ports and—maybe most interestingly—a 10 Gbps Ethernet interface. It's unclear if this will be a retail product, but the card provided to Level1Techs doesn't appear to be an engineer unit, but a full retail ready product. It's definitely an interesting upgrade path for those that have invested in a B650 motherboard and there's no real reason why this shouldn't work as well as having the second chipset on the motherboard, especially as ASRock appears to have fitted a signal re-driver on the add-in card to make sure the PCIe signals are handled properly.
Sources: Level1Techs, via VideoCardz
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72 Comments on ASRock Returns to its Roots with Wacky X670 Upgrade Card

#52
jesdals
I would like to see a test of this and wonder if it would work on a x670 board
Posted on Reply
#53
Tek-Check
thewanStop saying that higher pcie gens are pointless.
It's doable, but people would need to stop complaining about Gen5 motherboard prices. It's definitely not cheap to wire entire PCB with Gen5 lanes.
jesdalsI would like to see a test of this and wonder if it would work on a x670 board
Interesting, indeed, to see whether there are restrictions in BIOS to two Promontory chipsets.
Posted on Reply
#54
Mussels
Freshwater Moderator
OneMoarthis is stupid this entire product is assinine because you don't just add a south bridge over pci-e and magicly add more connections to the cpu
which is what you need for this to matter
Well that is what AMD did on the AM5 socket, it's exactly how their current motherboards work...
jesdalsI would like to see a test of this and wonder if it would work on a x670 board
I want it on my x570, just for the ethernet and USB-C ports :P
thewanStop saying that higher pcie gens are pointless.
They're expensive and hard to manufacture, more the point


I care more about 1x lanes at 5.0 than i do a 16x that has enough bandwidth already, so we can use those little slots with 2.5/5/10Gb cards and devices, a 4x slot for a 40Gb USB-C or whatever
Posted on Reply
#55
TheLostSwede
News Editor
jesdalsI would like to see a test of this and wonder if it would work on a x670 board
AMD doesn't seem to have envisaged a triple chipset setup, so there might not be UEFI/AGESA support for something like that.

Beyond that, the board would need to have a full x4 PCIe 4.0 slot and that weird connector for it to work.
Posted on Reply
#56
Tek-Check
OneMoarthis is stupid this entire product is assinine because you don't just add a south bridge over pci-e and magicly add more connections to the cpu
which is what you need for this to matter
It's on a motherboard vendor to decide how they wire PCIe sockets and Promontory chipsets. A vendor might decide to wire Gen4 x4 slot directly with CPU. They are free to avoud daisy-chaining two chipsets on X670 too, wiring each one to CPU. AMD doesn't dictate how this should be done.
MusselsWell that is what AMD did on the AM5 socket, it's exactly how their current motherboards work
AMD doesn't dictate how to wire most of connections, apart from minimum requirements in terms of one M.2 Gen5 slot and GPU slot. See my post above.

Motherboard vendors have a high degree of freedom here.
TheLostSwedeAMD doesn't seem to have envisaged a triple chipset setup, so there might not be UEFI/AGESA support for something like that.
The external chipset might be seen as PCIe device by Windows, but I am interested to see how this could work. It's certainly a good solution for those who need more connectivity
Posted on Reply
#57
Wirko
Tek-CheckA vendor might decide to wire Gen4 x4 slot directly with CPU. They are free to avoud daisy-chaining two chipsets on X670 too, wiring each one to CPU. AMD doesn't dictate how this should be done.
Hm, has AMD or any mobo vendor ever mentioned or hinted at that possibility?
Tek-CheckThe external chipset might be seen as PCIe device by Windows, but I am interested to see how this could work. It's certainly a good solution for those who need more connectivity
Sure, AMD could turn their Promontory 21 into a universal expander chip without much effort, if only they wanted. It's not like that nineteen-wire serial interface (??) (what??) is absolutely necessary. The PCIe interface is flexible enough to carry all commands, control information, metadata, sync, whatever is necessary for a port expander/PCIe switch to function.
Posted on Reply
#58
kapone32
ypsylonLike Wendell said: This should be for any board.

Even HEDT-segment ones. 101% agree with this. Its brilliant idea.

Can you imagine (sadly now dead-end) TRX40 boards with two x8 cards like those? Extra 8 M.2s, 2 10Gb NICs, stacks of USB, 8 SATA ports.
You just need a x4 wired 16 slot running at 4.0. That is sweet as it creates serious flexibility for people vs other add in cards this shines as not even the WD AN1500 can touch this in that regard.
Posted on Reply
#59
trsttte
ypsylonLike Wendell said: This should be for any board.

Even HEDT-segment ones. 101% agree with this. Its brilliant idea.

Can you imagine (sadly now dead-end) TRX40 boards with two x8 cards like those? Extra 8 M.2s, 2 10Gb NICs, stacks of USB, 8 SATA ports.
This is only x4 (x670/b650 promontory is only x4) but yeah, pretty neat. I wouldn't describe trx40 as the best candidate since it already has a bunch of native pcie lanes to begin with to connect usb/nic/whatever directly, no need to have a chipset doing switch work, but it's a great solution for expansion on consumer boards where you're very lane limited. This gives you an all in one expansion with everything you'd want.
TheLostSwedePLX chips cost more than AMD/ASMedia's chipset. Plus this incorporates native support for more interfaces whereas the PLX chips are just PCIe bridges/splitters.
I think this is the main point really, the promontory chipset is cheaper and easier to integrate than PLX chips
Tek-CheckThey are free to avoud daisy-chaining two chipsets on X670 too, wiring each one to CPU. AMD doesn't dictate how this should be done.
Hmm do you have a source for that? Pretty sure AMD specifies how that works and it has to be daisy chained. When it was launched there was even discussion on why it was like that instead of going directly to the cpu (i don't remember the justification)
Posted on Reply
#60
Morgoth
Fueled by Sapphire
would like to see back plain boards making a comback like they used in the 1990...

Posted on Reply
#61
TheLostSwede
News Editor
WirkoSure, AMD could turn their Promontory 21 into a universal expander chip without much effort, if only they wanted. It's not like that nineteen-wire serial interface (??) (what??) is absolutely necessary. The PCIe interface is flexible enough to carry all commands, control information, metadata, sync, whatever is necessary for a port expander/PCIe switch to function.
It's not about being capable enough, but rather about PCIe not supporting the extra control signals that are required for some interfaces to stay synced properly with the rest of thes system.
That said, I don't understand why this has a more complex connector that the Thunderbolt cards, but it's possible that ASRock has to use multiple "slow" standards.
I agree that this seems overly complex and if the chipset was only used for PCIe, it would most likely end up being simpler than this, as it shouldn't require to sync with so many other subsystems.


Technically it ends up being a four to eight PCIe 4.0 bridge/switch, plus four PCIe 3.0 lanes if it was used as a "universal" PCIe expansion solution.
Morgothwould like to see back plain boards making a comback like they used in the 1990...
I think you want some version of the PICMG form factor for that, which is sort of a continuation of the AT form factor for industrial use, as in your picture.
Posted on Reply
#62
Morgoth
Fueled by Sapphire
would love to have sush things. replace a single card just to upgrade that future. swappign a usb 2.0 card for usb 3.0 card
need more nvme storage? plug in a board for it with several connectors. newer cpu? just swap the board every thing els stays the same
extra ram. add in ram expension card XD
"The sky is the limit"
Posted on Reply
#63
Initialised
Where's the Intel 1700 board with both DDR4 and DDR5 slots?
Posted on Reply
#64
Tek-Check
Wirkohas AMD or any mobo vendor ever mentioned or hinted at that possibility?
I have not seen any explicit ban on non-daisy chained solution.
trsttteHmm do you have a source for that? Pretty sure AMD specifies how that works and it has to be daisy chained. When it was launched there was even discussion on why it was like that instead of going directly to the cpu
No one has ever showed any explicit ban on non-daisy chained solutions.
Posted on Reply
#65
wickerman
its a shame this isnt a standard on mini itx motherboards, you generally have a few extra lanes available if theres a suitable mezzanine socket or something that could physically fit. Hell id take an m.2 adapter and ribbon cable. The demo card alone would make for some pretty insane feature rich SFF builds with a quick 3d printed bracket to mount it somewhere suitable. Stuff like this would really make smaller form factors like matx and mini itx much better alternatives to full size ATX or extended ATX that you'd normally need for those extra features.
Posted on Reply
#66
TechLurker
The commercial/enterprise sector makes use of daughter boards that can add additional ports or features, and I see no reason why prosumer and consumer mobos can't utilize them as well to some degree. I'd like to see more add-ons like this. Just NOT AT THE EXPENSE of removing stuff off the mobo. Heck, I'd even take a small optional daughter card that simply enables full use of the PCIe slots if every port was populated (most consumer mobos either disable a SATA port or a header if say, all PCI slots were occupied, or even disable or downgrade a slot if all NVMe slots were populated).

I'd definitely buy this if this works with an X570; just to add a little more capability to my existing board, and if AsRock is innovative enough, also allowed to be forward carried when the time does come to upgrade.

Now I have to ask; can two or more of them work on the same motherboard? Seems like a novel way of being able to create a mini network-all-in-one if you can have multiple 10GbE + extra NVMe + Extra USB + SATA ports.
Posted on Reply
#67
Skull66
I remember the good old days of Asrock, had a couple of MOBOs with slot A and Socket A
Posted on Reply
#68
Mussels
Freshwater Moderator
wickermanits a shame this isnt a standard on mini itx motherboards, you generally have a few extra lanes available if theres a suitable mezzanine socket or something that could physically fit. Hell id take an m.2 adapter and ribbon cable. The demo card alone would make for some pretty insane feature rich SFF builds with a quick 3d printed bracket to mount it somewhere suitable. Stuff like this would really make smaller form factors like matx and mini itx much better alternatives to full size ATX or extended ATX that you'd normally need for those extra features.
If this sort of thing does require CPU wired slots, the NVME slot with a riser cable would be the universal solution
Posted on Reply
#69
Prima.Vera
Wait, does this work on Intel Z mobos also??
Posted on Reply
#70
Mussels
Freshwater Moderator
Prima.VeraWait, does this work on Intel Z mobos also??
I would find that extremely unlikely, but if that extra random cable wasn't needed - possibly?
We're all looking at it thikning "oooh shiny expansion card!" anyway


The video does explicitly state that you need that "J2" cable or it wont work, but we all certainly want a version without that cable requirement


that riser gives you BIOS control of it, but they could also surely implement one that had software control and a USB header, for example
Posted on Reply
#71
Luke357
Good ole ASRock. Reminds me of the B250 (I think it was under the Super Alloy brand but its been 7 years) DDR3/DDR4 board they had when Skylake came out.
Posted on Reply
#72
Wirko
I have a funny looking DDR2+DDR3 board from Asus, the P5KC ... it must have been designed back when Asrock wasn't fully separated from Asus yet, I guess.
Posted on Reply
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