Space Lynxi mean if you are going to spend this much money you might as well do the OLED LG 27"

Chrispy_I think that's the Achilles heel of mini-LED; The FALD arrays and their associated controller adds so much cost that the end result competes with OLED on price.

There's absolutely no contest with OLED. For a gaming display where pixel response time and contrast levels are the two most important factors, OLED isn't just better, it's several orders of magnitude better.

G2G response times?
11ms vs <0.1ms makes OLED something like 12000% faster.

Contrast ratios on fine details/fringes?
1000:1 vs infinity:1 makes OLED infinitely better.

I'll admit that if you're worried about image retention, mini-LED offers the best contrast ratio you can get with traditional LCD, but it's still not as good as OLED, especially since 576 zones will still result in bright halos around point lights on dark backgrounds. 576 zones is still only 32 x 18 backlights and that means the smallest possible backlight zone for a single pixel will result in an 80x80 bright corona reducing contrast to 1000:1 in that area.

evernessinceAside from the image retention issue you mentioned, there's also subpixel layout and maximum brightness that are big problems for OLED.

Cr4zyIve not personally had any complaints with the subpixel on my QD-OLED I realise those that use their displays for a lot of text work might have issues but for content, design and gaming its been a non-issue.

Max brightness of my OLED still is higher than the display I replaced so it's not exactly a deal breaker for a lot of people upgrading. I can understand if you were going from 600+ nits sustained down to whatever but most people are sidegrading the brightness at worst and thats for those at max brightness anyway.

Sure some people will have issue with them but for me OLED is just a better tech to buy into currently, maybe in the future mini-led or micro-led backlights will have some better choices but OLED is hard to beat especially when you can get burn in warranty.

evernessinceAside from the image retention issue you mentioned, there's also subpixel layout and maximum brightness that are big problems for OLED.

One of the most notable complaints with the alienware or LG OLED monitors is that text is blurry. This extends to the LG C2 as well. IMO this is a dealbreaker because being a PC monitor means having text on screen in most cases, often of smaller sizes, and impairing the ability to read that is going to diminish the experience greatly.

FYI OLED being 12000 faster is not accurate. G2G response time is only a single factor in the display latency chain. Optimum Tech recently reviewed the new LG 240 Hz OLED and found that the ROG Swift 360Hz PG27AQN (an IPS display) was faster.

Mind you when it comes to motion clarity the BenQ Zowie XL2566K (which is TN) was the winner by far.

"Infinite" contrast ratio is misleading as well. Any number divided by zero is infinite and OLEDs can entirely turn off pixels to reach 0. This is more a play on the way contrast is measured more than an actual representation of the display's contrast performance. This is a problem because every OLED has infinite contrast under the current measurement even though contrast performance between them varies quite a bit. Newer OLEDs that can get brighter will achieve a higher perceived contrast than older dimmer OLEDs despite both having "infinite" contrast. The current measurement also ignores the fact that the minimum brightness of any point on the screen can be no lower than the amount of ambient light in the room. The only scenario in which an OLED has "infinite" contrast is on the spec sheet but in any real world room it will not. People tend to exaggerate the benefit of OLED vs the brightness of IPS. The best OLED monitors still only get around 200 nits maximum brightness whereas IPS can get 700+ nits. In order to benefit from the OLED your room really needs to be dark to very dark most of the time. The IPS will work well in any environment.

I'm sure OLED will get better over time but as of right now you have to take the factors mentioned above into consideration when making a monitor purchase.

evernessinceNot even just people who work with a lot of text, you can see in the link I posted that the drop in text clarity will be noticeable regardless of it you are playing games or handling documents. If you do a google search of the Alienware 34 OLED, you can see a lot of people found it to be a dealbreaker and ended up returning the monitor. The problem with poor text clarity, aside from making things harder to read, it that is causes eye strain which can lead to headaches and fatigue.

You may not be affected and I'm glad you like your monitor but it's something to note for people to consider.

Typically when considering a monitor, you want at least 200 nits for a dimly lit room, 250 nits for typical lighting, and 270 - 300 nits for a room with a lot of ambient light. You can run an OLED monitor in moderate ambient lighting but it will make it unnecessarily harder to use and wash out any contrast advantage it had. You really want to get the room as dark as possible to benefit from OLED blacks. The higher the ambient light, the less of an advantage that monitor is going to have. VR is probably the ideal application for OLED because it avoids the burn-in issue and removes almost all ambient light.

evernessinceTypically when considering a monitor, you want at least 200 nits for a dimly lit room, 250 nits for typical lighting, and 270 - 300 nits for a room with a lot of ambient light. You can run an OLED monitor in moderate ambient lighting but it will make it unnecessarily harder to use and wash out any contrast advantage it had. You really want to get the room as dark as possible to benefit from OLED blacks. The higher the ambient light, the less of an advantage that monitor is going to have. VR is probably the ideal application for OLED because it avoids the burn-in issue and removes almost all ambient light.

GarrusYou posted a video where he says "get the OLED" to argue against OLED... ok...


You are arguing against it without using it. It is not nearly as dark as you think. I have to turn the brightness down on my OLED.

Vayra86Absolute nonsense, all you have to prevent is getting sunlight to fall onto your screen or having it behind you, which is the case with every other monitor ever - that's just unpleasant to look at.

Vayra86But 180cd/m2 is a standard issue brightness & calibration target for any typically lit room. Daylight, mind, or office lighting. OLED meets that spec just fine. Another aspect here is that at higher brightness greyscale balance and deltaE errors can increase which they certainly do on any LCD, with IPS suffering the least - but that comes with a meagre 1000:1 contrast as well.

Vayra86The idea that high brightness is ever somehow required is absolute bullshit, its a matter of what you're getting accustomed to. I've played around with a LOT of monitors and settings... high brightness is more eye strain/fatigue every time, in different settings. Similarly, playing in rooms with bad lighting conditions (absolute darkness, or sunlight falling in etc.) is going to show unpleasant panel qualities across the board; even specks of dust will appear more readily in the sun's reflection, its just something anyone will want to avoid if possible.

Vayra86This is a horrible product, stay fár away...

If this is supposed to be 'budget' miniLED to compete with OLED, its DOA. And that's what it is right now.


Absolute nonsense, all you have to prevent is getting sunlight to fall onto your screen or having it behind you, which is the case with every other monitor ever - that's just unpleasant to look at.

But 180cd/m2 is a standard issue brightness & calibration target for any typically lit room. Daylight, mind, or office lighting. OLED meets that spec just fine. Another aspect here is that at higher brightness greyscale balance and deltaE errors can increase which they certainly do on any LCD, with IPS suffering the least - but that comes with a meagre 1000:1 contrast as well.

The idea that high brightness is ever somehow required is absolute bullshit, its a matter of what you're getting accustomed to. I've played around with a LOT of monitors and settings... high brightness is more eye strain/fatigue every time, in different settings. Similarly, playing in rooms with bad lighting conditions (absolute darkness, or sunlight falling in etc.) is going to show unpleasant panel qualities across the board; even specks of dust will appear more readily in the sun's reflection, its just something anyone will want to avoid if possible.

evernessinceMy monitor is calibrated to 210 nits via a ColorMunki Display (a professional colorimeter) for a mostly dim room and I've routinely calibrated displays for people with various needs and ambient light levels. Do not assume that someone doesn't know what a specific brightness level is like.

The argument presented in the video is a lot more nuanced then "get the OLED", you are entirely misrepresenting it by glossing over the points made.



It's a funny thing, light bounces. When light is bouncing through a room, it's called ambient light. You'll almost always have ambient light unless you live in a darkroom. I never said anything about direct sunlight, I specifically referenced ambient to avoid the the assumptions like you've made here.



No, standard is much higher:

www.binarytides.com/monitor-specs-explained/
www.coolblue.be/en/advice/what-is-the-brightness-of-your-monitor.html

Most monitors are not calibrated out of the box and if they are, they are calibrated at the out of the box brightness (typically 250 - 350 nits). Adjusting brightness higher or lower will impact the deltaE. If you care about color accuracy you should be calibrating your display with a measurement instrument regardless after you adjust your display to your desired brightness.

For example, my Acer monitor has an out of the box brightness of 260 nits and 340 nits in "sports mode". I think you vastly underestimate the brightness standard monitors come with.



Think about that for a second. You take your phone outside and it automatically increases screen brightness so that elements on the screen are still visible. The same concept applies here, the more ambient light, the higher brightness that is required to keep the display visible.

FYI absolute darkness is not bad for monitor viewing, it's only bad when the display has an overtly highly brightness. As I've said multiple time, your display should be calibrated according to the ambient light conditions present in the room. It's 100% possible to use a display in a pitch black room and avoid eye fatigue.

evernessinceThink about that for a second. You take your phone outside and it automatically increases screen brightness so that elements on the screen are still visible. The same concept applies here, the more ambient light, the higher brightness that is required to keep the display visible.

FYI absolute darkness is not bad for monitor viewing, it's only bad when the display has an overtly highly brightness. As I've said multiple time, your display should be calibrated according to the ambient light conditions present in the room. It's 100% possible to use a display in a pitch black room and avoid eye fatigue.

Vayra86Of course you can tweak brightness ever so slightly for different lighting conditions. But let's go back to the original point: your idea that OLED is too dim for its typical use case or 'most rooms'.

Vayra86Phone outside is a screen that gets brighter especially when it gets hit by direct sunlight or at least, much more ambient light than you would have indoors.

evernessinceNo, that's an assumption you made. If you read my priors, I specifically state on multiple occasion that the benefit under typical lighting condition of OLED wanes. I also made an argument that current OLED monitors (I'm putting more qualifiers here because you seem drawn to misinterpreting things) are too dim to be used in all environments, which is 100% true.

In typical internet fashion you replied rudely to a comment you skipped through because you felt a single line was incorrect without reading the whole thing.



Your phone adjusts brightness regardless of whether the sun is directly hitting it or not. Ambient light levels are much higher outside of course but that wasn't the point of my example, it was to point out that higher ambient light levels require higher levels of brightness to properly see the screen. Surely you did not think that I was saying that outside midday lighting is normal inside lighting.

evernessinceYour phone adjusts brightness regardless of whether the sun is directly hitting it or not. Ambient light levels are much higher outside of course but that wasn't the point of my example, it was to point out that higher ambient light levels require higher levels of brightness to properly see the screen. Surely you did not think that I was saying that outside midday lighting is normal inside lighting.

Vayra86Sorry maybe I ran with it a bit - but I do believe you also ran a bit with the LCD is better stance 'because of higher brightness'. Bright screens were never a real perk, and when OLED's 'benefit wanes', is not generally the situation where it matters - when it does matter, you'll make sure its benefit doesn't wane by just closing a curtain.

Vayra86The other way around though... making the room brighter because you don't want to enjoy the near-grey blacks of LCD, or want to avoid IPS glow... is that preferable? I hardly think it is. For immersion, you'll want dim lighting so more attention is drawn to the screen. Now these aren't benefits, this is about avoiding problematic screen 'qualities'.

Vayra86This is true, but again, this is you running with an idea as much as I am. The phone brightness is an extreme - for the general range of office /indoor situations, you can make do with 200-250 nits just fine, there is no way you're 'needing 300-350' anywhere unless you've got direct sunlight or reflection on the screen, which means there's a different problem to fix. But that is what some of your links above said.

ArcoText? Just use Mactype. Vaporized the fringing. (Might not work on all programs but it's a good start.) [QD-OLED is special, doesn't work.]

Regarding brightness, I have a lot of light around my screen and I find it bright.