I guess the sales are so much lower than the expectations, that the scalping option as is the case with GPUs (which actually sell even worse :kookoo:) is not reasonable. :banghead:

That's a great price. I have no need to go to AM5 right now, but if a shop near me was selling this chip at that price I would be considering to bought it. If I had a need for computation power, I would definitely bought it. It's a 5 years investment. Someone buying it is set for at least 5 years. And considering that AM5 will be seeing CPUs based on Zen 5 and maybe Zen 6, the whole platform can be updated and used for at least 2030.
Best price in Greece still over 535 euros.

ARFI guess the sales are so much lower than the expectations, that the scalping option as is the case with GPUs (which actually sell even worse :kookoo:) is not reasonable. :banghead:

9000 series looks like a series that will have great performance AND efficiency, meaning 9000 and especially 9000X3D will be killers. So AMD drops the prices now so it can sell those chips before 9000 arrives and creates a condition of internal competition.
It's also a great move from AMD to lure new customers looking for high end CPUs now that Intel high end CPUs are failing all over the place with instability and degradation problems. AMD is taking advantage of Intel's manufacturing mistakes and that's a smart move.

john_9000 series looks like a series that will have great performance AND efficiency, meaning 9000 and especially 9000X3D will be killers. So AMD drops the prices now so it can sell those chips before 9000 arrives and creates a condition of internal competition.
It's also a great move from AMD to lure new customers looking for high end CPUs now that Intel high end CPUs are failing all over the place with instability and degradation problems. AMD is taking advantage of Intel's manufacturing mistakes and that's a smart move.

I don't think so. For me (and probably for many others), these AM5 Ryzens are no-go. It's extremely difficult to cool them.


www.techpowerup.com/review/thermalright-phantom-spirit-120-evo-argb-cpu-air-cooler/6.html

this is a great price for this high core count cpu, it aint exactly chopped liver when 9000 series arrive...

ARFI don't think so. For me (and probably for many others), these AM5 Ryzens are no-go. It's extremely difficult to cool them.

No one stops you, or those many others, to pay for an unstable and with degradation problems, 253+ Wattage, CPU that you think it is easier cooled.
Your money.

ARFI don't think so. For me (and probably for many others), these AM5 Ryzens are no-go. It's extremely difficult to cool them.


www.techpowerup.com/review/thermalright-phantom-spirit-120-evo-argb-cpu-air-cooler/6.html

You should probably read the TPU article about this very issue. I'll quote some of the conclusions:

Even with the weakest configuration in our test (Wraith Spire at 20%), you still get 5.3 GHz, which is 92% of the maximum boost clocks.
[...]
Our testing in this article shows that the performance losses are minimal, even when pairing the Ryzen 9 7950X flagship with an entry-level cooler that's running at slow fan speed settings.

ARFI don't think so. For me (and probably for many others), these AM5 Ryzens are no-go. It's extremely difficult to cool them.

Lololol. In a time of horrible news from around the world, this absurd statement made me laugh. Thank you for that.

DavenLololol. In a time of horrible news from around the world, this absurd statement made me laugh. Thank you for that.

The horrible chiplets placement and inadequate IHS are responsible for the issues. See how the deltaT is up to 12°C, and the chiplets are at the edge, which means not optimal contact and cooling..

ARFI don't think so. For me (and probably for many others), these AM5 Ryzens are no-go. It's extremely difficult to cool them.


www.techpowerup.com/review/thermalright-phantom-spirit-120-evo-argb-cpu-air-cooler/6.html

Sometimes I wonder about you anti-AMD guys. The only AM5 CPU that gets up to 225w heat load is the 7950x, Non-x3D. This 7950X3D CPU is around ~150w maximum heat load, which means it can be easily cooled by every single cooler on the most recent CPU cooler review.

ARFI don't think so. For me (and probably for many others), these AM5 Ryzens are no-go. It's extremely difficult to cool them.


www.techpowerup.com/review/thermalright-phantom-spirit-120-evo-argb-cpu-air-cooler/6.html

Apparently 9000 is 7C cooler from additional thermal improvements - the difficulty to cool is one of the things they explicitly addressed.

Also, I know my local Microcenter will price-match places like NewEgg/Amazon as long as the item's seller is - Amazon/NewEgg/AMD/Intel. They will not touch the price if it is just a mom-and-pop store price.

ARFThe horrible chiplets placement and inadequate IHS are responsible for the issues. See how the deltaT is up to 12°C, and the chiplets are at the edge, which means not optimal contact and cooling..

With all the widespread reports of Raptor Lake instabilities due to being overclocked out of the box beyond the chips’ capabilities, are you trying to say that the majority of users have nowhere to turn? Because you can’t go with Intel for the exact same reason you are saying you can’t go with AMD.

Anyway back to reality, TPU did a whole article on this:

www.techpowerup.com/review/amd-ryzen-9-7950x-cooling-requirements-thermal-throttling/

From the conclusions:

“The frenzy around the 95°C load temperature of the processor had gotten so bad that some predicted that cheap air coolers could "start fires." This clearly won't happen as our testing confirms. The Wraith Spire is a 95 W-capable cooler that probably costs AMD $10-15 to bundle with each PIB package. It's a piece of aluminium with a fan—as basic as stock coolers can get. When paired with the 7950X, the cooler is able to keep the processor away from damage or overheating and runs 100% stable all day.”

The highend CPUs and GPUs of modern days run hot due to diminishing node returns and extreme competitiveness. But the chips are more durable than ever and operate under brutal conditions. With the exception of running 13th and 14th gen i9s at 253W and higher, most CPUs and GPUs can operate at insane wattages and temps.

If you don’t like that there are cooler, less power hungry chips down the product stack from all chip companies or you can go laptop where the best binned chips are selected.

Must be nice in Canada still 900 bucks

EatingDirtSometimes I wonder about you anti-AMD guys. The only AM5 CPU that gets up to 225w heat load is the 7950x, Non-x3D. This 7950X3D CPU is around ~150w maximum heat load, which means it can be easily cooled by every single cooler on the most recent CPU cooler review.

Typical smear campaign, just ignore the fools

and TechTubers say AMD can't further lower the prices before, they're literally makling tons of profit from it before, and now the sandbagging on the price begins.

ARFI don't think so. For me (and probably for many others), these AM5 Ryzens are no-go. It's extremely difficult to cool them.


www.techpowerup.com/review/thermalright-phantom-spirit-120-evo-argb-cpu-air-cooler/6.html

This is a 7950x issue because it draws lots of power. It's not the case with the 7950X3D that the article is talking about. That one is okayish in temps. Not great, but not bad to the point it becomes a reason not to buy it.

john_9000 series looks like a series that will have great performance AND efficiency, meaning 9000 and especially 9000X3D will be killers. So AMD drops the prices now so it can sell those chips before 9000 arrives and creates a condition of internal competition.
It's also a great move from AMD to lure new customers looking for high end CPUs now that Intel high end CPUs are failing all over the place with instability and degradation problems. AMD is taking advantage of Intel's manufacturing mistakes and that's a smart move.

That's completely backwards. When your competitor fails you don't drop the prices, you have no reason to, lol. Unless amd is out to lose money, they wouldnt drop prices because they are expecting more sales. They are dropping the prices because they are expecting less sales.

fevgatosThat's completely backwards. When your competitor fails you don't drop the prices, you have no reason to, lol. Unless amd is out to lose money, they wouldnt drop prices because they are expecting more sales. They are dropping the prices because they are expecting less sales.

They are just clearing inventory before the release of a next generation. It’s as simple as that.

DavenThey are just clearing inventory before the release of a next generation. It’s as simple as that.

Yeap, obviously lots of people aren't buying now but waiting for next gen. Although the price is really enticing.

So here are CPU load temperatures in TPUs 14900KS review.


Depending on which CPU you want buy your cooler accordingly.

DavenSo here are CPU load temperatures in TPUs 14900KS review.


Depending on which CPU you want buy your cooler accordingly.

This is with removed thermal limits on the intel chips, no?

fevgatosThis is with removed thermal limits on the intel chips, no?

I don’t think so. From the temperature page in the article paragraphs above the chart:

“Note that unless indicated otherwise, all processors are tested at stock conditions with their power limit active, which is why some Intel temperatures are surprisingly low. As designed by Intel, these CPUs can exceed its TDP for a few seconds (PL2), but in the long term, the power limit (PL1) is respected, which brings down temperatures considerably.”

So I guess the Intel temperatures can be higher when thermal limits are removed. I’m guessing the real temps of the AMD chips might also be higher due to the placement of the thermal sensor.

DavenI don’t think so. From the temperature page in the article paragraphs above the chart:

“Note that unless indicated otherwise, all processors are tested at stock conditions with their power limit active, which is why some Intel temperatures are surprisingly low. As designed by Intel, these CPUs can exceed its TDP for a few seconds (PL2), but in the long term, the power limit (PL1) is respected, which brings down temperatures considerably.”

So I guess the Intel temperatures can be higher when thermal limits are removed. I’m guessing the real temps of the AMD chips might also be higher due to the placement of the thermal sensor.

Man, unless you increase the thermal limits, intel cpus can't exceed 100c.

Right under the part you quoted, it continues

"For the new Intel CPUs we've increased the temperature limit in BIOS from 100°C to 115°C"

Damn, you must have missed it. Happens.

fevgatosMan, unless you increase the thermal limits, intel cpus can't exceed 100c.

Right under the part you quoted, it continues

"For the new Intel CPUs we've increased the temperature limit in BIOS from 100°C to 115°C"

Damn, you must have missed it. Happens.

While some conversations here are about winning an argument, in this case, each of us should listen to all of us. The numbers are the numbers. If the TPU article removed thermal limits, great. Thanks for pointing that out. If you can limit the temperature in the BIOS, then do so to meet your needs and buy the CPU cooler accordingly. If you know that the AMD thermal sensor is reading low, then add 7-10C and buy the CPU cooler accordingly. If you want to see how far you can push your Intel CPU, remove the thermal limits and wait for it...buy the CPU cooler accordingly.

Any implications that no one is buying a certain CPU because of thermals means that no one is buying ANY CPUs at all. All CPUs can run hot or cold depending on the SKU, BIOS settings, ambient temperature in the room, case cooling setup, etc. Pick the CPU you want (both AMD and Intel are being picked by lots and lots of people), read the reviews to know how to cool it and again buy the CPU cooler accordingly.

By the way, the above statements have been true for the last 40 years of DIY computer building.

PS. It wasn't you implying anything, it was ARF's statement above which started this topic subthread.

The 7800X3D still the undefeated champion of gaming for now.

john_

john_No one stops you, or those many others, to pay for an unstable and with degradation problems, 253+ Wattage, CPU that you think it is easier cooled.
Your money.

It's also a great move from AMD to lure new customers looking for high end CPUs now that Intel high end CPUs are failing all over the place with instability and degradation problems. AMD is taking advantage of Intel's manufacturing mistakes and that's a smart move.

In all fairness, my first build coming back to Red camp after a decade or so Intel hiatus just had a 5950X go bad on me with about 3 years of use at all stock settings. It will not deter me from grabbing another 5950X to replace it, and whatever my next build is years from now will more than likely stay Ryzen, but failures do happen to everyone.