Not seeing any mATX or ITX in the part numbers hopefully there are a few smaller boards in there. Zero interest in building a giant ATX PC.

phintsNot seeing any mATX or ITX in the part numbers hopefully there are a few smaller boards in there. Zero interest in building a giant ATX PC.

STRIX 890-I is ITX.

Kinda funny that they already have an APEX ENCORE in there as well as a DARK HERO since both were usually the 2nd revision of the original APEX and the original HERO.

phintsNot seeing any mATX or ITX in the part numbers hopefully there are a few smaller boards in there. Zero interest in building a giant ATX PC.

You sure? I see several mATX and ITX boards in this list based on the Z790 naming.

mATX

• PRIME Series
  • PRIME Z890M-PLUS
  • PRIME Z890M-PLUS WIFI
• AORUS Series
  • Z890M AORUS ELITE WIFI7
  • Z890M AORUS ELITE WIFI7 ICE
• Gigabyte
  • Z890M GAMING X

ITX

• ROG STRIX Series
  • ROG STRIX Z890-I GAMING WiFi
• AORUS Series
  • Z890I AORUS ULTRA

So again tonne of SKUs for Intel launch who threw every single of these motherboard makers under the bus couple of months ago by blaming them for CPU failures.

Why are the Encore and Dark Hero ROG boards releasing (or at least already planned and designed) right off the bat? I thought these were supposed to be refined late cycle refreshes for the second wave of a socket's second generation chipsets' implementation. Are they lowering the specification on the regular Hero and Apex? If so, what's even the point in releasing these at all?

BTW - love the "TUG Gaming" series :rolleyes: :laugh:

New motherboards along with new CPUs, thats how you do a CPU launch, take note AMD.

Wonder why they release immediately the Zx90 version of their enthusiast chipset, instead of Zx70 and later releasing a refreshed one.

And I know that this isn't the first time when the Zx90 comes immediately.

There are many motherboard options for Intel. It's a really different story with AMD. :banghead:

RuruWonder why they release immediately the Zx90 version of their enthusiast chipset, instead of Zx70 and later releasing a refreshed one.

And I know that this isn't the first time when the Zx90 comes immediately.

Zx90 replaced Zx70 as top chipset, H870 is coming later, probably at CES along with non-K SKUs.

SIGSEGVThere are many motherboard options for Intel. It's a really different story with AMD. :banghead:

I mean, are you genuinely surprised? This is literally touted as a selling point for Ryzen - the one thing no one is bringing up when they claim "Buy a X670E today and use Zen 6 on it in 5-6 years' time" is that your X670E motherboard will still be 5-6 years old by then, and equally behind in the technology that is supports. Yet worse, the long lived socket will also generally restrict the scope of advances so the CPU in general retains backwards and forwards compatibility - this is a critical weakness of AMD desktop platforms. There is no longevity without tradeoffs in technology.

They'll start pumping out X870E's soon with incremental upgrades to Wi-Fi 7 and a slightly overhauled layout, but don't expect any major advances on the AMD side until AM6 is ready for prime time.

ChaitanyaSo again tonne of SKUs for Intel launch who threw every single of these motherboard makers under the bus couple of months ago by blaming them for CPU failures.

The motherboard makers are likely good partners with Intel given how often their socket changes.

IMO having socket longevity is worth the tradeoff of not having the latest features, which not many will even use until the features get released in affordable devices and midrange products.

Going to need another Apex for DDR5-10000+

Dr. DroI mean, are you genuinely surprised? This is literally touted as a selling point for Ryzen - the one thing no one is bringing up when they claim "Buy a X670E today and use Zen 6 on it in 5-6 years' time" is that your X670E motherboard will still be 5-6 years old by then, and equally behind in the technology that is supports. Yet worse, the long lived socket will also generally restrict the scope of advances so the CPU in general retains backwards and forwards compatibility - this is a critical weakness of AMD desktop platforms. There is no longevity without tradeoffs in technology.

They'll start pumping out X870E's soon with incremental upgrades to Wi-Fi 7 and a slightly overhauled layout, but don't expect any major advances on the AMD side until AM6 is ready for prime time.

Yep that is what happened with AM4. I guess the 5700x made no sense if you had a 1700x based on what you are saying. I guess in your eyes AMD has not moved the needle in anyway.

Hope they not as bad and expensive as X870.

kapone32Yep that is what happened with AM4. I guess the 5700x made no sense if you had a 1700x based on what you are saying. I guess in your eyes AMD has not moved the needle in anyway.

Did you even read what I said? The point is that motherboards don't advance in the same pace because the older models have to support past, present, and future generations of CPUs. This is the tradeoff to be done, and I even have to agree with @Hecate91 that it is worth it in exchange for longevity - by the point these newer techs actually matter, AMD motherboards will largely have caught up anyway, besides, some of them like the Wi-Fi chip you can upgrade yourself. You'll have a window where Intel's ahead in motherboard features for a couple of years, but that's at the cost of not being able to straight upgrade across major generations while retaining the motherboard.

A 5950X will perform the exact same on a Crosshair 6 (X370) and a Crosshair 8 (X570) motherboard. With socket AM4 we even saw some improvements such as PCIe 4.0 support in the third generation of chipsets, although achievable DDR4 frequencies across them remain about the same, 3600ish once both are running the latest versions of AGESA. Aside from the PCIe Gen 4 support, everything else remains largely the same and upgrades are incremental at best, Wi-Fi 6 to 6E chips, some more NVMe slots on the newer boards. That's about it.

Dr. DroDid you even read what I said? The point is that motherboards don't advance in the same pace because the older models have to support past, present, and future generations of CPUs. This is the tradeoff to be done, and I even have to agree with @Hecate91 that it is worth it in exchange for longevity - by the point these newer techs actually matter, AMD motherboards will largely have caught up anyway, besides, some of them like the Wi-Fi chip you can upgrade yourself. You'll have a window where Intel's ahead in motherboard features for a couple of years, but that's at the cost of not being able to straight upgrade across major generations while retaining the motherboard.

A 5950X will perform the exact same on a Crosshair 6 (X370) and a Crosshair 8 (X570) motherboard. With socket AM4 we even saw some improvements such as PCIe 4.0 support in the third generation of chipsets, although achievable DDR4 frequencies across them remain about the same, 3600ish once both are running the latest versions of AGESA. Aside from the PCIe Gen 4 support, everything else remains largely the same and upgrades are incremental at best, Wi-Fi 6 to 6E chips, some more NVMe slots on the newer boards. That's about it.

Are you suggesting that Z690 or Z790 are better equipped boards vs X670E or X570S? The truth about DDR4 was that Corsair was bought by a large portion of users and led to many complaints. Then the memory controller on the 1700 could not do 3200 as advertised on the Corsair box. By X470 3200Mhz was and yes 3600 became the sweet spot due to Infinity fabric. Where you don't get it is the APUs on AM4 supported and could be felt by faster memory and supported. That really does not matter though as the Memory controller is in the CPU so this talk about MB features is obtuse.

Where motherboards matter is terms of flexibility. Of course you would use the top end X370 board so I got one of the top end X470 boards and one of the best X570S boards (all in the same class) to prove to you that you are wrong in thinking that AM4 MB feature support was lacking because of socket longevity. You make it seem like M2 drives are not popular.

Where I agree with the argument is with AM5. The only board I have seen that I would replace my X670E E Strix Gaming would be the 870E Godlike from MSI but with 7 USB C ports on the rear i/o that is the only thing that is arguably better and how many USBC devices do I have for something like that. If the ability to fill your board with 7 NVME drives and still have 4 SATA ports and 3 USB C on the rear already exists on X670E adding USB 4.0 in no way inspires me to get

WiFI 6 was not on X470 so.

We may indeed get PCIE 6.0 on the 3rd generation boards but does any device on the market even need that. It is not like enthusiasts are buying 5.0 M2 drives and yes some people buy boards to do whatever they want and not just for 1 or 2 M2 drives and a GPU. That is not who these boards are for.

kapone32Are you suggesting that Z690 or Z790 are better equipped boards vs X670E or X570S? The truth about DDR4 was that Corsair was bought by a large portion of users and led to many complaints. Then the memory controller on the 1700 could not do 3200 as advertised on the Corsair box. By X470 3200Mhz was and yes 3600 became the sweet spot due to Infinity fabric. Where you don't get it is the APUs on AM4 supported and could be felt by faster memory and supported. That really does not matter though as the Memory controller is in the CPU so this talk about MB features is obtuse.

Where motherboards matter is terms of flexibility. Of course you would use the top end X370 board so I got one of the top end X470 boards and one of the best X570S boards (all in the same class) to prove to you that you are wrong in thinking that AM4 MB feature support was lacking because of socket longevity. You make it seem like M2 drives are not popular.

Where I agree with the argument is with AM5. The only board I have seen that I would replace my X670E E Strix Gaming would be the 870E Godlike from MSI but with 7 USB C ports on the rear i/o that is the only thing that is arguably better and how many USBC devices do I have for something like that. If the ability to fill your board with 7 NVME drives and still have 4 SATA ports and 3 USB C on the rear already exists on X670E adding USB 4.0 in no way inspires me to get

WiFI 6 was not on X470 so.

We may indeed get PCIE 6.0 on the 3rd generation boards but does any device on the market even need that. It is not like enthusiasts are buying 5.0 M2 drives and yes some people buy boards to do whatever they want and not just for 1 or 2 M2 drives and a GPU. That is not who these boards are for.

Again you haven't read what I wrote... The X570S Ace Max is a good example to bring up... it's a classy, high end board. Compare it to the Z690 Ace that was released more or less alongside it (the X570S Ace Max is model MS-7D50 and the Z690 Ace is MS-7D27), and you'll see exactly what we've been discussing. Almost everything about it is a class above, better connectivity, better I/O, more fan headers, PCIe Gen 5 support, amongst other things that the X570S doesn't and cannot support due to the socket AM4 architecture. Or to be more specific, limitations of the X570 chipset.

Corsair memory is not a problem, inadequate memory ICs are. I ran Dominator Platinums on my AM4 systems myself, never had any issues, the 4x16 GB kit from my 5950X build is still in service on an older build today.

True, the X370 and X470 boards didn't have a stock option for Wi-Fi 6. They were 802.11ac/Wi-Fi 5, but nothing stops you from upgrading the module with a 802.11be Wi-Fi 7 chip since they all use an M.2-2230 type E key for the module. These are incredibly inexpensive. So, like I brought up earlier, these newer motherboards often feature just improved stock options, with the earlier design being easily brought up to par.

We will get PCIe generation upgrades with newer chipsets, but as it stands, the X670E and X870E are very much alike the X370 and X470 - incremental, minor upgrades, with boards largely based on existing floorplans - Intel's new socket pushes new floorplans for motherboards most of the time.

Dr. DroAgain you haven't read what I wrote... The X570S Ace Max is a good example to bring up... it's a classy, high end board. Compare it to the Z690 Ace that was released more or less alongside it (the X570S Ace Max is model MS-7D50 and the Z690 Ace is MS-7D27), and you'll see exactly what we've been discussing. Almost everything about it is a class above, better connectivity, better I/O, more fan headers, PCIe Gen 5 support, amongst other things that the X570S doesn't and cannot support due to the socket AM4 architecture. Or to be more specific, limitations of the X570 chipset.

Corsair memory is not a problem, inadequate memory ICs are. I ran Dominator Platinums on my AM4 systems myself, never had any issues, the 4x16 GB kit from my 5950X build is still in service on an older build today.

True, the X370 and X470 boards didn't have a stock option for Wi-Fi 6. They were 802.11ac/Wi-Fi 5, but nothing stops you from upgrading the module with a 802.11be Wi-Fi 7 chip since they all use an M.2-2230 type E key for the module. These are incredibly inexpensive. So, like I brought up earlier, these newer motherboards often feature just improved stock options, with the earlier design being easily brought up to par.

We will get PCIe generation upgrades with newer chipsets, but as it stands, the X670E and X870E are very much alike the X370 and X470 - incremental, minor upgrades, with boards largely based on existing floorplans - Intel's new socket pushes new floorplans for motherboards most of the time.

I agree, even if Zen 5 wasn't enough to turn me off AMD this gen, the new lacklustre MB updates certainly are.