Wasn't this supposed to be how Windows 12 was?

Looks like they started early.

So basically it's a Zero client from 2013/2014 era (Fujitsu comes to mind) but instead of linking it to a local DC they push their cloud. No thanks.

I seriously don't get it, why the frikkin hell would I want my data all over the place?

This is thin client takeover. I assumed it was coming, and with Gb internet at most places....

This will be the downfall of MS if they aren't careful, there is a reason many companies still have private IT departments, imagine the class action suit if MS caused outage of flights, trains, banking and trade?

Aken BoschSo basically it's a Zero client from 2013/2014 era (Fujitsu comes to mind) but instead of linking it to a local DC they push their cloud. No thanks.

Thin clients are still used at many businesses. We use them, along with Duo and about 2 other security steps. I have a laptop that is mostly immune to it all.

SteevoThis is thin client takeover. I assumed it was coming, and with Gb internet at most places....

This will be the downfall of MS if they aren't careful, there is a reason many companies still have private IT departments, imagine the class action suit if MS caused outage of flights, trains, banking and trade?


Thin clients are still used at many businesses. We use them, along with Duo and about 2 other security steps. I have a laptop that is mostly immune to it all.

Yeah, I get that in a private DC (even there I'm quite uncomfortable). But Azure??? Seriously?

igormpWhat's the issue with using a low end Intel CPU? The CPU itself is pretty irrelevant for this scenario since it's pretty much just a thin client. All you need is something capable of rendering outputs, and a media engine capable of decoding the incoming stream, the CPU itself is doing basically nothing.


Although this indeed does have a higher price point that those other Mini-pcs that should be even more capable, I can see this making sense for bussiness that don't want to have a proper IT team. Just have a functioning internet connection and relay everything onto the cloud for management.

Alder Lake N is not good enough to be in a calculator much less a thin client.

NostrasKnowing the hardware and the fact you're forced to buy a subscription the pricing of this thing is honestly absurd lol. I'm surprised they're mentioning a price at all considering only business users with custom agreements will be considering these.

Considering as has been said many times in this thread these will be aimed at business users, they will look at how much it will save them on cap ex (capital expenditure) whilst budgeting the subscription into op ex (operating expenditure) which are 2 different things, so it will cost X amount to purchase and save us X amount on buying more expensive HW/desktops, not too mention less support, HW replacements etc and we have enough budget in op ex for the MS365 subscription unless they already have a subscription which a lot of companies will, they only look at yearly budgets and savings, so from a consumer POV they make little sense, from a business POV these will sell as chromebooks and thin cleints and similar thin computing devices sell millions every year to that very market, time will tell how well they do

Marcus LConsidering as has been said many times in this thread these will be aimed at business users, they will look at how much it will save them on cap ex (capital expenditure) whilst budgeting the subscription into op ex (operating expenditure) which are 2 different things, so it will cost X amount to purchase and save us X amount on buying more expensive HW/desktops, not too mention less support, HW replacements etc and we have enough budget in op ex for the MS365 subscription unless they already have a subscription which a lot of companies will, they only look at yearly budgets and savings, so from a consumer POV they make little sense, from a business POV these will sell as chromebooks and thin cleints and similar thin computing devices sell millions every year to that very market, time will tell how well they do

Yeah, security be damned. I hate MBA's so much...

wNotyarDI've seen thin clients before, but using on-premise servers. Using MS Cloud, though?

Dude, it's 2024. Many businesses outsourced their IT infrastructure to the cloud (Google, AWS, Azure et al) starting around 10 years ago. That ship sailed a looooong time ago.

Of course this is more commonplace with the bigger enterprises who are likely the target market for these devices, not the companies with <100 employees.

And yes, subscription model is understandable since most enterprise level customers have some sort of support contract anyhow. If you're using Microsoft 365 you're already used to getting a regular invoice. This just tacks on the cost of the hardware. The original article does not specify terms but my guess is that you can't actually buy the $350 PC without signing up for some sort of minimal support contract.

It's a reasonable offering for enterprise customers. Remember that most very large corporations have multiple business units and various people in a variety of roles, some of which really don't need much in the way of computing power (e-mail, office productivity suite, web browser, database clients, etc.).

For fun, I've tried using an AWS EC2 instance to host Windows and the office productivity suite. It worked fine when I tried it 10+ years ago.

It's doable for the right usage cases. It's not like someone is going to buy this and say, "Gee, I wonder if we can find some way to use this." Companies like Citrix have been in this market for decades now. There is already a market for this stuff.

Aken BoschSo basically it's a Zero client from 2013/2014 era (Fujitsu comes to mind) but instead of linking it to a local DC they push their cloud. No thanks.

I seriously don't get it, why the frikkin hell would I want my data all over the place?

Lots of companies use 365 and cloud storage, your use case is not the same, in fact their data is safer because of redundancy than keeping it all on site and having to manage data backups, failovers, disaster recovery, support and management etc

Aken BoschYeah, security be damned. I hate MBA's so much...

:rolleyes:

Marcus LLots of companies use 365 and cloud storage, your use case is not the same, in fact their data is safer because of redundancy than keeping it all on site and having to manage data backups, failovers, disaster recovery, support and management etc


:rolleyes:

My use case is exactly the same. I have MS365 all over the place. I'm not eagerly waiting for a goddamn breach just because Exchange masters did an oopsie and forgot to patch it in time. The fact remains, centralized DC with DR and that's it, I should be a moron to trust some external source, no matter what.
Oh, and don't get me started on Onedrive and mobile Outlook experiences.

Aken BoschMy use case is exactly the same. I have MS365 all over the place. I'm not eagerly waiting for a goddamn breach just because Exchange masters did an oopsie and forgot to patch it in time. The fact remains, centralized DC with DR and that's it, I should be a moron to trust some external source, no matter what.
Oh, and don't get me started on Onedrive and mobile Outlook experiences.

And how large is the organization that you are responsible for providing IT services?

As pointed out before, there are tons of Fortune 500/Russell 2000 companies who have moved large parts of their IT infrastructure to the cloud. Most probably keep a few things running on local internal servers but it's not an all-or-nothing proposition. For example, you could put your sales system in the cloud but keep your payroll system internal.

These net clients aren't new. And running your own local internal servers is no guarantee of security in 2024. My guess is that in five years, AI assisted IT services will move even more IT infrastructure to the cloud. For sure, C-suite executives will continue to ask "Should we move more of this to the cloud?"

You better make sure you have some great answers because someday someone else will probably have a more convincing argument to move things to the clouds and you might end up collecting your walking papers. The IT world is not going to stay the way it was in 1994 where chain-smoking IT techs play cards in the server room waiting for the phone to ring.

cvaldesAs pointed out before, there are tons of Fortune 500/Russell 2000 companies who have moved large parts of their IT infrastructure to the cloud. Most probably keep a few things running on local internal servers but it's not an all-or-nothing proposition. For example, you could put your sales system in the cloud but keep your payroll system internal.

This is facts, of course there is data you will never put in "the cloud" though for most companies a large part of it you can and you can do it for much cheaper than keeping it all on site with multiple backups, failovers, techs to manage and implement etc etc you literally get all that with any decent cloud storage, you will have redundancy DR, multiple copies of your data in different locations and the highest security protocols to minimise security breaches etc

Large enough that I care about this kind of things. "As pointed out before, there are tons of Fortune 500/Russell 2000 companies who have moved large parts of their IT infrastructure to the cloud" yeah, I've got a ton of tits and booze from them, so give me a break.

Whatever. The idea is that if I'm constrained to use a goddamn cloud with a poor terminal then that's out of the question, for me and my company at least.

Aken BoschLarge enough that I care about this kind of things. "As pointed out before, there are tons of Fortune 500/Russell 2000 companies who have moved large parts of their IT infrastructure to the cloud" yeah, I've got a ton of tits and booze from them, so give me a break.

Whatever. The idea is that if I'm constrained to use a goddamn cloud with a poor terminal then that's out of the question, for me and my company at least.

You haven't a clue lol as well as the hardware, operating,maintaining costs, these devices also consume a fraction of power than a traditional "fat client"/desktop even laptop devices, and when you are talking about literally tens to hundreds of 1000's of users the savings in electricity and of course hitting those green targets make the ROI alone, but hey, you the man :respect: :roll: guess Google, HP, Dell, MS and all the fortune 500 companies should be listening to you on how to do business

Of course they are doing this. Just another step closer to a subscription that can be shut off for any reason they choose.

Aken BoschLarge enough that I care about this kind of things. "As pointed out before, there are tons of Fortune 500/Russell 2000 companies who have moved large parts of their IT infrastructure to the cloud" yeah, I've got a ton of tits and booze from them, so give me a break.

Whatever. The idea is that if I'm constrained to use a goddamn cloud with a poor terminal then that's out of the question, for me and my company at least.

No one is saying that you have to move every single last computer to the cloud. But it's important to realize that the IT department is a cost center. And senior management is always eagerly seeking out ways to cut costs.

I guess it's time to point out that the device in your pocket is in many ways a thin client.

Gone are the days when people scanned all their receipts, filled out an Excel spreadsheet on their PC, printed it out and paperclipped their receipts and stuck it in the inbox of Accounts Payable.

I don't know what sort of company you work for but pretty much all Fortune 500 companies' sales teams use some sort of cloud based technology for some part of their job. And more of it is migrating to the cloud every single day.

As much as you want IT services to stay parked in the status quo of forty years ago, you can't fight it off forever. Most likely one of your colleagues is silently waiting for the opportunity to make a suggestion to the executive committee that moving some things to the cloud will result in saving hundreds of thousands of dollars from SG&A. And then you'll get a call from the CEO to meet in his office and that person will be sitting there. "___ says we can save $_00,000 by doing [insert cloud thingy here]. I'd like to hear what your thoughts are on the matter." Just be prepared for that conversation. Might be next week, might be next month, might be next year. But it'll happen eventually.

And even if all of your direct reports are hand-picked disciples that follow the Aken Bosch Sect of IT Worship, the senior management team at your company probably has outside auditors/consultants from time to time poking around. At some point, some fresh faced recent grad working their first job at Accenture/PwC/whatever is going to suggest moving A, B or C to the cloud.

Pretty stupid

cvaldesNo one is saying that you have to move every single last computer to the cloud. But it's important to realize that the IT department is a cost center. And senior management is always eagerly seeking out ways to cut costs.

I guess it's time to point out that the device in your pocket is in many ways a thin client.

Gone are the days when people scanned all their receipts, filled out an Excel spreadsheet on their PC, printed it out and paperclipped their receipts and stuck it in the inbox of Accounts Payable.

I don't know what sort of company you work for but pretty much all Fortune 500 companies' sales teams use some sort of cloud based technology for some part of their job. And more of it is migrating to the cloud every single day.

As much as you want IT services to stay parked in the status quo of forty years ago, you can't fight it off forever. Most likely one of your colleagues is silently waiting for the opportunity to make a suggestion to the executive committee that moving some things to the cloud will result in saving hundreds of thousands of dollars from SG&A. And then you'll get a call from the CEO to meet in his office and that person will be sitting there. "___ says we can save $_00,000 by doing [insert cloud thingy here]. I'd like to hear what your thoughts are on the matter." Just be prepared for that conversation. Might be next week, might be next month, might be next year. But it'll happen eventually.

And even if all of your direct reports are hand-picked disciples that follow the Aken Bosch Sect of IT Worship, the senior management team at your company probably has outside auditors/consultants from time to time poking around. At some point, some fresh faced recent grad working their first job at Accenture/PwC/whatever is going to suggest moving A, B or C to the cloud.

Thank you, I needed that.

Um, yeah, what kind of business?
www.cnbc.com/2024/10/25/delta-suit-against-crowdstrike-after-it-outage-caused-cancellations.html

You will own nothing, and you will be happy.

So Microsoft's response to the Mac Mini nuke is a freaking DaaS box? And at $350?

Aken BoschYeah, I get that in a private DC (even there I'm quite uncomfortable). But Azure??? Seriously?

Yes, seriously. My employer alone has thousands of Azure VDI’s. Why would a CSR need a PC?

Sound_CardYou will own nothing, and you will be happy.

Enterprise customers don’t want to own anything. It’s a liability.

Visible NoiseYes, seriously. My employer alone has thousands of Azure VDI’s. Why would a CSR need a PC?



Enterprise customers don’t want to own anything.

thats the key

the concept of having a data center in every company is just expensive and they also need properly trained people to handle and maintain it.

With having centralized data processing facilities, these facilities provide a niche that can be profitable for them and the companies do not have to pay much in maintenance or having the trained people. So enterprise wise, its a win win.

I have a buddy who works with his dad as they have a basement data processing facility. They use recycled server to run VM's for small companies all over who will have simple wyse terminals or whatever and just simply use RDP into these servers VM environments specifically for this company. Big time money saver for small companies.

Aken BoschLarge enough that I care about this kind of things. "As pointed out before, there are tons of Fortune 500/Russell 2000 companies who have moved large parts of their IT infrastructure to the cloud" yeah, I've got a ton of tits and booze from them, so give me a break.

Whatever. The idea is that if I'm constrained to use a goddamn cloud with a poor terminal then that's out of the question, for me and my company at least.

I recommend finding another company to work for if they are still maintaining their own IT infrastructure, because they are going to be out of business relatively soon.

Just like Mining and ML/AI stupidty another waste of energy resources that should meet early grave. What a waste of resources.