AcEWho? Go tell W1zzard that he's wrong. :) Data > Any person on the planet. I don't care to bring personal things into this. Logic > *

Impossible, that would show in the average FPS - and your argument is solely concentrated on worst case scenario Ultra settings, which are only smart part of the general argument and already debunked, maybe try to regard more than just 1 setting? - Also the outcry of masses would arise, which never did, not even for the RX 7600 with worse vram management than Nvidias. You guys are simply wrong, accept it and move on. :) Endless deflecting, certainly will never impress me, to the contrary, the people who agreed with me all seemed chilled, well balanced people, the guys who didn't more often than not behaved panicked and angrily most of the time. There's a interesting pattern. I guess being positive is just better than being sceptical and negative and coloring it into how you see the world (and then see too many things just not how they really are, but over everything else, there will be *balance*, the zen mantra). But I digress, the discussion is just too long in the tooth now.

And that's why you can't be taken seriously by people on here. You're putting W1zzard's limited tests on certain games over Digital Foundries extensive tests on individual games and thousands of users experience on reddit when playing the game. Ya know W1z doesn't spend all day long on one game testing every scenario when reviewing cards, right? He runs a bench, records the details, and moves on to the next.

Vayra86Lol bud if you think 8GB is enough you are free to knock yourself out on x60's all day long.

I know so. :)

ArkzAnd that's why you can't be taken seriously by people on here.[...]

Great argument. :roll: That will convince me!

ArkzAnd that's why you can't be taken seriously by people on here. You're putting W1zzard's limited tests on certain games over Digital Foundries extensive tests on individual games and thousands of users experience on reddit when playing the game. Ya know W1z doesn't spend all day long on one game testing every scenario when reviewing cards, right? He runs a bench, records the details, and moves on to the next.

Someone with nearly 3x my daily posts is definitely bored, and I'll just leave at that, before I jump to assumptions and all that and become very not nice. But yeah. Lmao, this stance of 'disprove this review or you're wrong'. Sometimes you just need to let people experience life themselves, before they come back to you all teary eyed saying it was all true after all. Some never get there, too, or they stoically deny it. Others just view things completely differently than the rest of the world. We all have our own paths, I guess.

Above me is a bloke saying 'I know so' on something that wasn't true anymore 3 years ago. Just leave him in his illusions. Ignorance is bliss, they say.

No gaming video card in this world should cost more than a console, let's keep it real. Not even the x090 cards. But guess suckers are a lot in this world, so the corpos are thriving because of them.

AcEI know so. :)

Great argument. :roll: That will convince me!

Oh there's no convincing you of anything, I believe that.

Prima.VeraNo gaming video card in this world should cost more than a console, let's keep it real. Not even the x090 cards. But guess suckers are a lot in this world, so the corpos are thriving because of them.

Well, they should, there's a lot on an xx90 card. Still overpriced though. But hey if you have customers lined up to pay why drop the price?

Prima.VeraNo gaming video card in this world should cost more than a console, let's keep it real. Not even the x090 cards. But guess suckers are a lot in this world, so the corpos are thriving because of them.

There is some validity in this, ultimately you can spend console money and have an OK experience. But I do not see the harm in spending more for an enhanced experience, you will get to experience that with a console by the time the PS7 Pro comes out.

Love these discussions about 8GB vram. :D
My opinion doesn't change, it's easy.

scoozeIf you are buying a 4060ti and not a 4090, then you are making a compromise.
If you compromise, you are ready to lower the settings.
If you lower the settings, you don't need much video memory.
If you do not need a lot of video memory, 8 GB can easily be enough.

Prima.VeraNo gaming video card in this world should cost more than a console, let's keep it real. Not even the x090 cards. But guess suckers are a lot in this world, so the corpos are thriving because of them.

Its all about perceived value. GPUs are now multi tools they dont just game. From a cost perspective you are right ofc... but thats not how this works in commerce.

ArkzOh there's no convincing you of anything, I believe that.

Of course you can believe whatever you want, but you don't know me. :) These are cheap shots ofc, after the person could not win the argument. Same goes for other people behaving like that. :)

The difference between you guys and me (and other proponents of 8 GB vram) is simple: we are reasonable, and not imbalanced like you guys are. 8 GB still works reasonably well, in the lower part of the spectrum. I never said it is fine for a mid range GPU or higher. :)

My next build will be an "investment" into the next 10 years of my PC use.
I'm thinking a Core i9 Ultra with AIO, 5090 with AIO, 64GB DDR5, 1200W PSU, 2TB SSD OS drive and 8TB SSD drive for games.
I absolutely want that 5090 because unless standards suddenly change, the 5090 will be the Gold Standard for 4K gaming with Ray Tracing.

Vayra86Its all about perceived value. GPUs are now multi tools they dont just game. From a cost perspective you are right ofc... but thats not how this works in commerce.

99.99% of those who are buying video cards are using them for gaming. The rest are using it for 3D modeling, but then again, unless you're working with very high assemblies, or complex parts, even a 4060 or equivalent will suffice. For more advanced task the professional video cards are there exactly for this.

QUANTUMPHYSICSMy next build will be an "investment" into the next 10 years of my PC use.
I'm thinking a Core i9 Ultra with AIO, 5090 with AIO, 64GB DDR5, 1200W PSU, 2TB SSD OS drive and 8TB SSD drive for games.
I absolutely want that 5090 because unless standards suddenly change, the 5090 will be the Gold Standard for 4K gaming with Ray Tracing.

5090 will be the same old TSMC 4N process, with extremely high power consumption. It will be like the RTX 2000 series on the interior Samsung N8 process node which was significantly bettered by the RTX 3000.
If you want that longevity, better wait for the TSMC 2nm graphics which will come during the next few years.

And of course, AMD Ryzen AI 9 is the better product than Core i9 Ultra with AIO which is just pathetic, TBH.

3valatzy5090 will be the same old TSMC 4N process, with extremely high power consumption. It will be like the RTX 2000 series on the interior Samsung N8 process node which was significantly bettered by the RTX 3000.
If you want that longevity, better wait for the TSMC 2nm graphics which will come during the next few years.

And of course, AMD Ryzen AI 9 is the better product than Core i9 Ultra with AIO which is just pathetic, TBH.

Turing used TSMC 12nm 12FF technology, Ampere used Samsung's 8 nm (I believe 8LPP specifically, although it is 10 nm class). Ada uses TSMC N4, which despite the name is a 5 nm class architecture.

3valatzy5090 will be the same old TSMC 4N process, with extremely high power consumption.

Power consumption isn't that important, efficiency is, and that will depend on how big the jump of RTX 50 is compared to 40 series because the node is largely the same, 5 -> 4nm is just a refinement of the same node.

AcEYou picked the one (1) game that has heavy heavy vram usage, and everyone knows that. It's also the 1 (one) game that magically makes the 7600 XT a worth while buy. :D

1) 4060 only, low end cards, not 4060 Ti and higher - I never said 4060 Ti is fine with 8 GB, it's a different matter as it's a lower mid range GPU 2) where I said that Ultra shouldn't be used as the main thing a low end user will use. 3) where I said not everyone with a 4060 will be triple A gamer, most are not (!) I'm pretty sure. So these Ultra benchmarks in all triple A games aren't that relevant, they show worst case scenarios, and still the 4060 works through them with almost 0 issues.

Irrelevant to the discussion because I was only talking about low end cards like 4060 and 7600, not the 4060 Ti. I never said the 4060 Ti is great. 7700 XT is better IMO and for multiple reasons.

Unlikely, currently no problem in 1080p and it will stay like that in the foreseeable future. Low end buyers are also way less triple A gamers, they are mostly competitive game/<AAA gamers, and those games are way less demanding.

I actually posted two different games, but that doesn't matter. Also the 4060Ti is sort of relevant because 5060 should be faster than 4060. That was your initial point, you said 8GB for 5060 is enough. Many disagreed, and I showed you graphs showing that if the 4060 is faster, there are games using 8GB framebuffer already while framerates are still playable. It isn't about "ultra settings" or what not, only matters if 8GB is being filled while the game is playable.

No one is saying it's not manageable at 8GB. You can always reduce textures etc. But a lot of people don't want to deal with the mess that is having a maxed out framebuffer. You are okay with it, and that's fine. You also feel that you'll be okay managing the framebuffer even with a 5060, and that's fine too. But people who say 8GB is absolutely not enough aren't incorrect either because of these two facts:

a) Some games are using up 8GB while having playable framerates, but 8GB results in a stuttery mess. I've linked two games for you but trust me there are others. You refuse to see anything other than TPU, so I linked two games from there.

b) The framebuffer situation is getting worse, because 4060Ti 16GB was 3% faster a year ago but 30% faster now compared to 4060Ti 8GB. The situation will never reverse it's course, nor has it in history.

So yeah, please stick to your subjective opinion about 8GB being enough, but let others have the opinion that 8Gb isn't, because they are also not incorrect.

QUANTUMPHYSICSMy next build will be an "investment" into the next 10 years of my PC use.
I'm thinking a Core i9 Ultra with AIO, 5090 with AIO, 64GB DDR5, 1200W PSU, 2TB SSD OS drive and 8TB SSD drive for games.
I absolutely want that 5090 because unless standards suddenly change, the 5090 will be the Gold Standard for 4K gaming with Ray Tracing.

If you're looking for an "investment" to play games, don't look at the 285K..

Prima.Vera99.99% of those who are buying video cards are using them for gaming. The rest are using it for 3D modeling, but then again, unless you're working with very high assemblies, or complex parts, even a 4060 or equivalent will suffice. For more advanced task the professional video cards are there exactly for this.

I honestly don't think that's the case. For sure gamers are the majority, but I'd say that it's about 70~80% of the market.
I don't have any data to back this up though, so it's just me guessing :p

Prima.Vera99.99% of those who are buying video cards are using them for gaming. The rest are using it for 3D modeling, but then again, unless you're working with very high assemblies, or complex parts, even a 4060 or equivalent will suffice. For more advanced task the professional video cards are there exactly for this.

I agree, but perceived value is something else. It lives in the mind, its a fantasy. It is what we tell ourselves so we can justify a $2000,- GPU.

There is a growing new segment though in (semi-) pro and creator territory. You can bet they don't need that 4090 but they'll still be able to justify it.

mkppoI actually posted two different games, but that doesn't matter. Also the 4060Ti is sort of relevant because 5060 should be faster than 4060. That was your initial point, you said 8GB for 5060 is enough. Many disagreed, and I showed you graphs showing that if the 4060 is faster, there are games using 8GB framebuffer already while framerates are still playable. It isn't about "ultra settings" or what not, only matters if 8GB is being filled while the game is playable.

No one is saying it's not manageable at 8GB. You can always reduce textures etc. But a lot of people don't want to deal with the mess that is having a maxed out framebuffer. You are okay with it, and that's fine. You also feel that you'll be okay managing the framebuffer even with a 5060, and that's fine too. But people who say 8GB is absolutely not enough aren't incorrect either because of these two facts:

a) Some games are using up 8GB while having playable framerates, but 8GB results in a stuttery mess. I've linked two games for you but trust me there are others. You refuse to see anything other than TPU, so I linked two games from there.

b) The framebuffer situation is getting worse, because 4060Ti 16GB was 3% faster a year ago but 30% faster now compared to 4060Ti 8GB. The situation will never reverse it's course, nor has it in history.

So yeah, please stick to your subjective opinion about 8GB being enough, but let others have the opinion that 8Gb isn't, because they are also not incorrect.

Yea keep arguing, but you're just picking the points to attack at, while saying things like "8 GB must reduce textures", which is false at this point of time. :) If the big GPU companies release more 8 GB cards in the future (soon), it means they concur with my opinion that 8 GB is still enough for low end cards. And reducing from "Ultra" or just setting it straight to "high" or "very high" instead of Ultra, is not a "mess", hence what you said, just doesn't make much sense to begin with. You're trying hard to make an argument with a opinion that makes 0 sense and has no merit. Going on a way that is lost, won't make you right suddenly, no matter how endlessly you try to argue it, and I will never agree with you, since your opinion simply makes no sense. :) And again, this is about 4060 and other low end GPUs, not 4060 Ti, you're trying to divert the argument because your opinion makes no sense - a typical approach. Keep trying endlessly, I'll rebuff it every time with the same arguments I already used a zillion times here, it's not like you're saying anything new, you're saying the same (wrong) things over and over again and expecting it to change something, which it won't. :)

"No one is saying it's not manageable at 8GB", what a funny statement. Did you actually read this thread? I would say no, a lot of people said exactly this and pretended as if 8 GB vram on a low end card is the end of the world. A lot of things you just said are simply false. :)

This thread reminds me of the pigeon that won at chess.

AcEYea keep arguing, but you're just picking the points to attack at, while saying things like "8 GB must reduce textures", which is false at this point of time. :) If the big GPU companies release more 8 GB cards in the future (soon), it means they concur with my opinion that 8 GB is still enough for low end cards. And reducing from "Ultra" or just setting it straight to "high" or "very high" instead of Ultra, is not a "mess", hence what you said, just doesn't make much sense to begin with. You're trying hard to make an argument with a opinion that makes 0 sense and has no merit. Going on a way that is lost, won't make you right suddenly, no matter how endlessly you try to argue it, and I will never agree with you, since your opinion simply makes no sense. :) And again, this is about 4060 and other low end GPUs, not 4060 Ti, you're trying to divert the argument because your opinion makes no sense - a typical approach. Keep trying endlessly, I'll rebuff it every time with the same arguments I already used a zillion times here, it's not like you're saying anything new, you're saying the same (wrong) things over and over again and expecting it to change something, which it won't. :)

"No one is saying it's not manageable at 8GB", what a funny statement. Did you actually read this thread? I would say no, a lot of people said exactly this and pretended as if 8 GB vram on a low end card is the end of the world. A lot of things you just said are simply false. :)

I think it'll do you well to reduce the finger pointing and "your arguments make no sense" and "what you're saying is wrong" bla bla. I thought of being nice and have been throughout this discussion but after Gordon's passing I think I need to vent, so here goes.

Nothing I said is false, if it is, fucking prove it. Don't prove it with a wall of words, tell me where my two points outlined in the previous post are incorrect with facts. Go on, i'll wait.

You said the 5060 will be fine with 8GB, that's where the bleeding argument started. Not 4060 mind you, so stop lying it's literally your second post in the thread. I took 4060Ti because the 5060 will be faster than 4060 so I was using that as an example plus it's got both 8 and 16GB variants. Also, read the post properly before you decide to comment, I literally explained why I was using 4060Ti as a perfectly relevant example in my last comment and yet you thought you needed to write another wall of text trying to pin it on me by saying i'm choosing 4060 to "win an argument". Just...no. You've had this attitude since the start, where there are "opponents" and like this is some giant battle. It's a discussion, end of.

Then I showed graphs showing that games are slowly starting to fill up 8GB framebuffers with RT, linked two games and and showed that a year ago it wasn't an issue. This was a fact, and there's no refuting that. The other fact? That the 4060Ti 16GB is so much faster than the 8GB variant in RT today. Disprove it with a review or something, not meaningless text.

Also, don't twist what I said and then claim i'm wrong. Have some basic decency for the love of god. I never once said "8GB must reduce textures" but rather that when framebuffer is limited, it has to be managed by reducing textures when required. It was obvious as hell from my earlier post but whatever. Also, of course a maxed out framebuffer is a mess. Because it can happen anytime within the game where the framerate absolutely tanks. This is what the HUB video which you conveniently ignore was trying to say. Like you set whatever setting and the game runs great only to absolutely tank mid game. That is a mess.

I'm done arguing with you regardless of what you write. I'm not here to convince you on anything, I said earlier that you can stick to your opinion and it won't be incorrect either as it's somewhat subjective. But you have no basis to call others out when they say having 8GB is a joke, because they are also correct to have that opinion. There are graphs and reviews provided in the discussion, and the issues outlined in them can be a deal breaker for some but not for others.

mkppoI think it'll do you well to reduce the finger pointing and "your arguments make no sense" and "what you're saying is wrong" bla bla. I thought of being nice and have been throughout this discussion but after Gordon's passing I think I need to vent, so here goes.

If people are ignorant and repeat the same debunked things over and over, as I said, don't expect me to have a long breath for this anymore. I'm also not reading your posts fully, just glancing over them, sorry for that, as this discussion is all but over for me. :) Believe whatever you want, it doesn't change the facts. And if you want "proof", "data", I already provided those or pointed them out long ago, go read the thread properly. Everything that could've been said, was already said, and you're one of those who want to ride it out endlessly, cause they can't accept the facts. 8 GB is absolutely, today, and foreseeable future, enough for a low end card in 1080p, according to data points discussed. End of story (my final post on this topic, I'm not reading anymore either, this is just about ego for people now, they have opinion X in stone and have 0 interest in changing it, ignoring the facts as well). :) One more thing: you wouldn't discuss the same thing, same talking points with different people over and over again, so be happy I did so with you (and others), despite not really caring that much anymore, because, frankly, it got boring. :) My mistake in getting invested in this, which will also not happen again, whatever the topic is about, in the future.

Have a good day / merry christmas. :)

AcEIf people are ignorant and repeat the same debunked things over and over, as I said, don't expect me to have a long breath for this anymore. I'm also not reading your posts fully, just glancing over them, sorry for that, as this discussion is all but over for me. :) Believe whatever you want, it doesn't change the facts. And if you want "proof", "data", I already provided those or pointed them out long ago, go read the thread properly. Everything that could've been said, was already said, and you're one of those who want to ride it out endlessly, cause they can't accept the facts. 8 GB is absolutely, today, and foreseeable future, enough for a low end card in 1080p, according to data points discussed. End of story (my final post on this topic, I'm not reading anymore either, this is just about ego for people now, they have opinion X in stone and have 0 interest in changing it, ignoring the facts as well). :) One more thing: you wouldn't discuss the same thing, same talking points with different people over and over again, so be happy I did so with you (and others), despite not really caring that much anymore, because, frankly, it got boring. :) My mistake in getting invested in this, which will also not happen again, whatever the topic is about, in the future.

Have a good day / merry christmas. :)

Yep, as I said earlier, you can stick to your point that's 8GB is enough. For many others in this thread, it absolutely isn't. And that's fine, people value things differently. Two people might read the reviews posted and have different conclusions depending on their needs. But that doesn't invalidate or refute anything, because the facts persist. I've said this earlier.

And yes, it is enough for 1080p. But that wasn't our original point, which was whether 8GB is enough for 5060 with no mention of resolution. A lot of low end gamers are using 1440p now because prices are pretty close to 1080p monitors. My graphs were all based on 1440p data.

Anyway, merry christmas and good day to you too.

Well this would be sooo not NVIDIA, well they where, in 2016/17 with the whole 10 series but the 1060 3GIG, this be a breaktrough alltho i doubt the 16gigs could be used as much (f.e as on my 4080)
Because a Low End card with too much VRAM wont help it out at some point ;)
32gigs on the 5090 on the other hand would be quiet nice :)
alltho i dont think that will be a gamechanger when im seeing quadros being still arround, because in terms of VRAM they are a lot better ;)