Saturday, October 6th 2007

Apple Exploring Pressure-Sensitive Touchscreens, Touchpads

Seeking to improve its portable devices, Apple has applied for a patent that could lead to touch-sensitive Macs or handhelds which react to the level of force, rather than just contact. Originally submitted in March of last year but only published on Thursday, the patent for a "Force Imaging Input and Device System" describes today's touchscreens and touchpads as limited by their relatively simple input, which tracks just the location of the finger or stylus on the surface. A method of detecting the strength of the user's input would add a new element of control, according to Apple. The patent's inventors Brian Huppi and Steven Hotelling have suggested lining touchpads with a set of traces joined together by a sandwich-like spring membrane layer underneath the surface. Touching the pad would deform the traces and create a capacitive image in circuitry, indicating where contact has been made. But unlike traditional capacitive or resistive touch surfaces, the membrane would help create a second image that recognizes just how much pressure has been applied at a given point; the harder the user pushes, the closer the membrane reaches conductive elements inside the layer and the more force would be registered with each press. Computers, phones, PDAs, and control panels are listed as candidates for the technique, although Apple is not obliged to manufacture any products using its invention.
Source: AppleInsider
Add your own comment

28 Comments on Apple Exploring Pressure-Sensitive Touchscreens, Touchpads

#1
Ravenas
Simply a great invention. I would love to see this implemented into Apple's products!
Posted on Reply
#2
Wile E
Power User
RavenasSimply a great invention. I would love to see this implemented into Apple's products!
I wouldn't mind seeing this implemented in anyone's products.
Posted on Reply
#3
Frick
Fishfaced Nincompoop
Doesn't this exist already in those pencil/boards-sets you can connect to a computer?

EDIT: Or is that the pen that is pressure-sensetive?
Posted on Reply
#4
Wile E
Power User
FrickDoesn't this exist already in those pencil/boards-sets you can connect to a computer?
Yeah, to a degree, but those don't do double duty as a display.
Posted on Reply
#5
Ravenas
Wile EI wouldn't mind seeing this implemented in anyone's products.
Heh, true, but it's Apple's invention and Apple normally doesn't share :)
Posted on Reply
#6
Helvetica
This could be cool. When typing a message, instead of pressing shift for capital letters, you chould just press the button with force.
Posted on Reply
#7
jocksteeluk
Apple will develop it and charge silly money for it (like firewire) and another company will reverse engineer it and release their own non patent infringing version of it (like USB)
Posted on Reply
#8
Ravenas
jocksteelukApple will develop it and charge silly money for it (like firewire) and another company will reverse engineer it and release their own non patent infringing version of it (like USB)
Firewire is better than USB, it's like you except more for nothing.

The same as a 8800 ultra costs more than a 8800 gtx...
Posted on Reply
#9
jocksteeluk
RavenasFirewire is better than USB, it's like you except more for nothing.
until USB3,
Posted on Reply
#10
Ravenas
jocksteelukuntil USB3,
Firewire will keep up with USB 3's standards...

As far as another company coming out with pressure sensitive devices, that may be true. However, I think we all see that Apple's invention will still be the best of the crop.
Posted on Reply
#11
panchoman
Sold my stars!
i dont mind apple not sharing, cause they need the money, they're still behind ms but rising slowly but steadily.
Posted on Reply
#12
Ravenas
panchomani dont mind apple not sharing, cause they need the money, they're still behind ms but rising slowly but steadily.
I'm not so sure about slowly (take a look at their stocks), but yes steadily.
Posted on Reply
#13
panchoman
Sold my stars!
RavenasI'm not so sure about slowly (take a look at their stocks), but yes steadily.
lol stocks. my dad's made a shit load of money cause he invested a lot in apple before the ipods came out and then the stock like quintupled lmao.
Posted on Reply
#14
Nemesis881
This might just make ipods, iphones, etc. cost more..
I'm sure A LOT more people would buy their products if they were a little cheaper and not stuck to Itunes :toast:.
Posted on Reply
#15
panchoman
Sold my stars!
Nemesis881This might just make ipods, iphones, etc. cost more..
I'm sure A LOT more people would buy their products if they were a little cheaper and not stuck to Itunes :toast:.
nope, if they unlocked the iphone and ipod, theres plenty of free ways to get music on there. an ipos is a one time buy, and after that, apple has your continous money cause you buy songs from itunes. apple makes more from itunes then from ipods lol.
Posted on Reply
#16
Ravenas
panchomanlol stocks. my dad's made a shit load of money cause he invested a lot in apple before the ipods came out and then the stock like quintupled lmao.
APPL is more than 2x Dell's market cap. I think that says alot ;)
Posted on Reply
#17
Ravenas
panchomannope, if they unlocked the iphone and ipod, theres plenty of free ways to get music on there. an ipos is a one time buy, and after that, apple has your continous money cause you buy songs from itunes. apple makes more from itunes then from ipods lol.
If you don't want to use iTunes, you can buy CDs from stores and import them to your iTunes playlist. Furthermore, any torrent of anytime (flac, ect) can be converted to the proper file type (mp3) and put in your playlist. A problem only arises when you try to put your songs from something like URGE or Real into your iTunes playlist. Lol, I don't know why anyone would except that you could.
Posted on Reply
#18
WarEagleAU
Bird of Prey
It be nice for some applications and systems aside from apple. Where I work, we log in with a touch screen monitor. Sometimes, to click ok to log in and out, you have to hit it a couple of times with your finger, weird sounding I know.

However, with this new dimension added, it would make it hassle free. type in yer number, push a little sterner for ok, push a little sterner for what code you are working under and also for hitting ok to clock in and out. I love this.
Posted on Reply
#19
Lame
Silly little Apple/s,

Have I gone to bed and woken up in an alternative reality or something. LCD touch displays that can sense the pressure supplied have been available for many years, who knows maybe decades, it is one of the main features for signature recognition. I can calibrate my Tungsten W touch screen with light touches, so that I can scroll down menus with an light slide of my finger, just like you can on the Iphone.

Something is amiss here, maybe it applies to an particular type of screen technology.

I tend to independently come up with the same ideas as Apple years ahead of time, despite of how many engineers they have, and they have come out with just the sort of phone I envisioned in the 90's, Apple is nothing extra special.

On this other thread, it is claimed that gateway is releasing the first quad HD 30 inch LCD, funny thing is, that Dell and Apple have had these things for quiet some time. So maybe the alternative reality thing happened the night before. But then again, the previouse night there was an game show on, called the Mint, that couldn't add up, even after they gave an ridiculously wrong answer to an simple puzzle (after having raked in heaps of cash from people over an hour or so) they corrected themselves and gave an even more ridiculously wrong answer. So, maybe the alternative reality thing started the day before. Reminds me of an episode of "Myth Busters": I reject your reality and substitute my own.

forums.techpowerup.com/showthread.php?t=41296
Posted on Reply
#20
Wile E
Power User
LameSilly little Apple/s,

Have I gone to bed and woken up in an alternative reality or something. LCD touch displays that can sense the pressure supplied have been available for many years, who knows maybe decades, it is one of the main features for signature recognition. I can calibrate my Tungsten W touch screen with light touches, so that I can scroll down menus with an light slide of my finger, just like you can on the Iphone.
Except that what you are reffering to is a calibration, what Apple wants to do is have different pressures do different things. Kinda like the pressure sensitive buttons on a PS2/3 controller. Varying amounts of force being used, produces varying results.
Posted on Reply
#21
Lame
Except you are not understanding what I was saying, the technology for varying input has been around for many years, irrespective of the the Tungsten (which probably has it). I know because I looked into these technologies when I was considering doing an PDA design. Where ever the Tungsten has it or not, the interesting thing was, that I can do the Iphone tricks already, another nail in Apple's innovative hat. Reminds me of the time they claimed copyright on ICONs that looked like an trash can (why Windows converted to recycling ICON) because they already had an icon that looked like an different trash can. Using their innovative logic, the trash can producing companies should have been able to sue them.
Posted on Reply
#22
ex_reven
Lamereminds me of the time they claimed copyright on ICONs that looked like an trash can (why Windows converted to recycling ICON) because they already had an icon that looked like an different trash can. Using their innovative logic, the trash can producing companies should have been able to sue them.
How could you be sued for that...its like trying to patent chairs, beds and floors. Everyone uses them and noone invented them.

On the pressure sensitive note, I think this would only confuse users further and alienate less-technologically saavy individuals. And I can see it being very expensive, because it has to be fairly sturdy to standup to the pressure some individuals will use on it.
Posted on Reply
#23
Ravenas
ex_revenHow could you be sued for that...its like trying to patent chairs, beds and floors. Everyone uses them and noone invented them.

On the pressure sensitive note, I think this would only confuse users further and alienate less-technologically saavy individuals. And I can see it being very expensive, because it has to be fairly sturdy to standup to the pressure some individuals will use on it.
Apple is very good at making user friendly technology, I think this will be no exception.
Posted on Reply
#24
kakazza
RavenasIf you don't want to use iTunes, you can buy CDs from stores and import them to your iTunes playlist. Furthermore, any torrent of anytime (flac, ect) can be converted to the proper file type (mp3) and put in your playlist. A problem only arises when you try to put your songs from something like URGE or Real into your iTunes playlist. Lol, I don't know why anyone would except that you could.
How is mp3 the proper format if you can have .flac?
iPods support all kinda formats out of which only mp3 is useful. I wish they had .ogg and .flac support at least.
Posted on Reply
#25
Lame
It is an game done in legal circles, see how much you can get away with in getting the courts to legalise it. May not be the most moral way of circumnavigating the law, but companies have been expanding the law in their direction for ages. The judges are supposed to be moral guardians of the law, but as they are just like the rest of us sometimes, that can fail. Governments are supposed to pass laws that rectify these mistakes with better laws, but as companies get to see politicians with shallower pockets than them, this is circumnavigated too often.

Apple has been good at seeing how much it can get away with in redefining what encroaches their IP. I forget what the eventual outcome of the famous look and feel case (in the 80's that had the rubbish bin thing, or was that "waste paper basket") but I think MS did an deal, but it might have been overturned. What was just as worrying, was another companies attempt to copyright individual words in an menu (I.E. like the word "save").

Laws need to clearly define the limits to what can be claimed, rather than this subjective wondering as to how much can be claimed for profit. This also goes in hand with fair use terms.

In legal circles everything is up for grabs, until the courts/government finally say no (then governments can be bought to change the law again, and more trials further "refine" what is the law in an desirable way). The other biggest way is "bluff" and "money", you legally challenge somebody (say an website with an take down order) or put an exploratory ceasure on their files for evidence. In ceasure the target party might have all sorts of personal information and extraneous, but vital, equipment ceased, and not realise you can challenge the extent of the order, or that whatever they are claiming is not right, in whatever jurisdiction that applies to, and that they can't really carry through very far with the threat. The target party caves in because they a) don't want legal action, or b) don't want to even pay an lawyer to find out if it is right or not. Of course, this sort of behaviour is immoral (swell as waving "boiler plate" clauses at somebody, that are invalid because the law overrides them) with laws/rules against some of it depending on jurisdiction, but this depends on you knowing that, having the time resources and money to take action and follow it through against all sorts of threats and obstructionism. The other consideration, is that they are cashed up and can send you broke with litigation hurdles over time. In legal circles even the representative "safeguards" of more lawyers, can be biased against you. This does not touch on lawyers who do illegal things, or support others that do illegal things, and stand over people they do it too, in order to get way with it. Hence forth, some reason why people hate politicians, layers, and big business.

Having said all that, the above paragraph is only an generalisation of things that happen in the broader community, and I am not implying that Apple does that. I am not aware of any case where Apple has acted in the way described in the above paragraph, and am unaware of how they act.

However, none of the above should be regarded as an legal opinion, or legal advice, professional opinion, or valid in any way, and proper legal advice should be sort instead.

However, I am increasingly frustrated with the way that people are throwing the term "Clone" around in concern of anything Apple, that you can squint really hard in an dark room and it looks similar. An prime example of this is the Meizume Minione, or M8. It is too early to say how far look and feel issues will go with the phone, but it looks similar to an Iphone and claims to do as much or more, with rival software from Microsoft. Some screen shots I have looked at have some small amount of similarity in form, though not really in detail. As it does not have the same software, and most likely not the same Apple data structures, or run MacOSX programs, have the same specification chips and general circuits copied, it rather like calling every popular, slightly tanned, tall dark haired, singer, and clone of Elvis Presley. Or imagine if the inventor of the car, or Henry Ford himself, said, "Stuff Patents, trademarks etc, I will rely on copyright, to stop anybody making anything that looks like an car, or has wheels". The debates on copyright in times past, sort of reminds me of this sort of unreasonable excessive stretch of logic.

But the problem with actual cloning, in an way that fakes an product identity, complete compatible circuits duplication, or encroaches on actual copyright, is seriously on the rise. Popular Science has an good article on it, and the Meizume MiniOne in the September issue, where they are not only cloning every part in an car, or products passed of as originals, but whole companies, and even companies attempting to trade as an original company. This is the sort of stuff the law needs to worry about sorting out.
Posted on Reply
Add your own comment
Jun 29th, 2024 17:03 EDT change timezone

New Forum Posts

Popular Reviews

Controversial News Posts