scorpion_amd13

RCoonDid anyone see the figures that released this morning? Out of all the 970's purchased, less than 5% were returned after all the media blowout.

Considering their regular return rate for defective cards is about 10% (all models, this figure includes custom cards), 5% may make this more of a problem for nVidia than most would think. It is disappointingly low, I must admit, but the real backlash for this screw-up is likely to come from retailers (trust me, they're really pissed) and partners (the guys that would consider it a big win if they get to save a single cent per card).

I think the biggest issue for nVidia isn't how many people want to return their cards, but how many people won't be buying nVidia cards in the future.
If I get a bad tasting coffee, I'll still drink it, but I'm likely to explore other options before I consider coming back.

scorpion_amd13Of course they're happy with the card's performance. It's a pretty great card and I don't remember anyone saying otherwise. That's not the issue, though. The issue is that nVidia LIED in order to increase its profits. So far, the only people that just don't seem to understand the importance of what this means are nVidia fanboys. The polls and forum discussions and everything else confirms this also, even more clearly than anything else. You people just don't want to understand that THIS affects everyone else, not just GTX 970 owners, and that as such, everyone should rally to send a clear message that this cannot be allowed to stand. The way things stand now, nVidia got away with it better than they ever expected. They'll most certainly do this again, because they have their goon squads of white... erm... green knights in shining armor, always ready and willing to let them get away with murder and silence anyone that would complain. Maybe next month they'll decide to rebrand all GTX 960 cards as GTX 970 and sell them at GTX 970 prices, you folks should be really pleased then.

Most of what you write above is BS, an overblown and at times nearly hysterical reaction to what is essentially a marketing issue.

the Poll also doesn't matter. i don't think that many gtx 970 owners have account here.

FourtyTwoMost of what you write above is BS, an overblown and at times nearly hysterical reaction to what is essentially a marketing issue.

marketing issues? cant say I agree with everything scorpion said but you should take off the blinders. companies lie all the time and most of them get away with it. pc hardware is not suppose to take a shit because its trying to take advantage of all the resources it has.
ok ok.. just for shits and giggles lets say it was marketed with the right specs.. well it would still be wrong.. why? because it has that small segment of useless vram there. that is ouch.. why? simply because it is there and not blocked off. touch that vram and you will stutter.. any tech site that said it is better than having a plain 3.5gb.. :shadedshu: I wont get into it further.

RCoonDid anyone see the figures that released this morning? Out of all the 970's purchased, less than 5% were returned after all the media blowout.

IT figures. Pretty hard to have high rates of return when Nvidia, it's partners, and most retailers are refusing to accept returns (based on the false advertising claims).

JMOIT figures. Pretty hard to have high rates of return when Nvidia, it's partners, and most retailers are refusing to accept returns (based on the false advertising claims).

Where are you trying to return your card to? Ebuyer will accept a return, but I'm not returning my card, OCUK accepted returns, so I imagine most other UK etailers will accept returns too.

RCoonWhere are you trying to return your card to? Ebuyer will accept a return, but I'm not returning my card, OCUK accepted returns, so I imagine most other UK etailers will accept returns too.

Oh, I don't own a GTX 970 :rolleyes:.

My trusty HD 6970 is till chugging away.

I'm aware that some people are having success with the returns, but I am also seeing a a fair number of posts describing a struggle at the retailer level to get any kind of RMA.

At the manufacturer level, well most of the majors have made there position clear (and Nvidia certainly has).'


Personally, if I owed a 970, and had no complaints about performance, I'd probably keep it if I was offered some kind of compensation. Otherwise, I'd return it on principle with a big FU to Nvidia.

scorpion_amd13Considering their regular return rate for defective cards is about 10% (all models, this figure includes custom cards)

Just out of interest, what's your source. I pored over pretty much all the publicly available returns data some time ago for a historical PC graphics article series ( Iused the same updated source in a post a couple of weeks ago) , and aside for some particular SKUs (reduced BoM mainly, and badly designed cooling), very few card models approached that figure - and those returns aren't all card failures ( buyers remorse, dissatisfaction with noise/coil whine/heat, maybe the card was too big for the chassis). The sample size starts at 100 returns of individual SKUs, so the overall numbers sold would be a minimum of 1000 units for a 10% return rate. A reasonable sample size.

scorpion_amd135% may make this more of a problem for nVidia than most would think. It is disappointingly low, I must admit, but the real backlash for this screw-up is likely to come from retailers (trust me, they're really pissed) and partners (the guys that would consider it a big win if they get to save a single cent per card).

Nvidia will likely come to an arrangement with resellers and AIB/AIC/OEM's. It would be very likely that that these outlets will either return the cards to the OEM/ODM or distro, refurbish the cards and sell them as such in the same markets. EVGA already does this with their Step Up program - B stock (coded -RX) is sold discounted to recoup the majority of the cost. The biggest issue facing Nvidia (and AMD for that matter) would be if these cards show up in quantity at a sizeable discount either through resell or eBay (say $250 or less), which would impact new card sales. My guess is that the cards will be sold as open box by the large resellers like Newegg, and the majority will go to secondary markets, where pricing of new cards is fairly exorbitant thanks to shipping costs and local tax......IMO.

Loving nVidia's DX12 performance:

www.anandtech.com/show/8962/the-directx-12-performance-preview-amd-nvidia-star-swarm

FluffmeisterLoving nVidia's DX12 performance:

www.anandtech.com/show/8962/the-directx-12-performance-preview-amd-nvidia-star-swarm

Thanks for providing the link. Very promising - and that's without the image quality enhancements promised by the feature set.
Would have been nice to see the vRAM usage comparison (DX11 vs DX12 vs Mantle) on the 290X just to round out the preliminary testing.

HumanSmokeThanks for providing the link. Very promising - and that's without the image quality enhancements promised by the feature set.
Would have been nice to see the vRAM usage comparison (DX11 vs DX12 vs Mantle) on the 290X just to round out the preliminary testing.

yeah seems they left that out along with the 970 :ohwell:

Have anyone happened to run across the specs from Nvidia where they actually state the wrong L2-cache and ROPs? I know there are plenty of reviews showing the wrong specs for GTX 970, but I want to see proof that that mistake is done by Nvidia, not by the reviewers assuming the specs would be the same as GTX 980.

I'm still wondering when people are going to sue AMD for incorrect performance claims about Mantle, and the fact that it's still not open source as they claim?

efikkanHave anyone happened to run across the specs from Nvidia where they actually state the wrong L2-cache and ROPs? I know there are plenty of reviews showing the wrong specs for GTX 970, but I want to see proof that that mistake is done by Nvidia, not by the reviewers assuming the specs would be the same as GTX 980.

The incorrect specifications were printed in the GTX 970/980 reviewers guide. ROPs and cache aren't listed in any actual product specification information viewable from product pages via Nvidia themselves, nor their card partners -it's a little esoteric for general specs.

efikkanI'm still wondering when people are going to sue AMD for incorrect performance claims about Mantle, and the fact that it's still not open source as they claim?

Unlikely. There are enough proviso's and generalities in AMD's literature to preclude anything like that, as there are with any claimed performance benefits from all vendors. The biggest issue might be continued support with the strides DX12 is making, considering the big head start Mantle supposedly had over it and AMD's claims that the Mantle API is tailored for their own GCN architecture. The last point is probably the most salient, since DX12 is vendor agnostic yet is performing on par (using less mature drivers I'd speculate) with Mantle on AMD architecture.

xfiayeah seems they left that out along with the 970 :ohwell:

At this stage, you'll probably find the 970 outperforming the 290X under DX12. As for memory usage, Ryan Smith, the author of the article, stated that AMD cards were allocating 4GB of virtual memory, and that Nvidia allows a 16GB allocation (as shown by the DX Diagnostic screens here)

970 owner here and I genuinely agree with nearly every point of view - from my own which is that the 970 remains a top-tiered option, to how NVIDIA very deliberately allowed false specs to disseminate; to those who won't be touching this card because of all this. But the one thing that irks me are the comments coming from AMD lovers who have not seen the 970 in action and yet they are talking as if they personally experienced what has been demonstrated time and time again isn't even happening with the 970. I have and am playing a lot of modern to fresh-off-the-press games at either the very max settings and I have not had any issues. Any. The drivers are maturing for Maxwell, so essentially this card is actually getting better. So to all the AMD comrades out there, sorry to tell you, the 970 is an A+ card. It has been since day one and remains to this day.

Spoken like a true fanboy.
You could have excluded AMD from your statement and still sounded reasonably valid.

I would like to see microsoft put this kind of memory system to the test and how the driver treats it. i guess they have been doing it for a long time if its true about 660's..

Caring1Spoken like a true fanboy.
You could have excluded AMD from your statement and still sounded reasonably valid.

Why is someone stating that the performance of the product they bought is meeting their needs indicative of a fanboy? By your logic, everyone who owns any card and says they are happy with it, is as well.
He even says Nvidia lied, that's not fanboy behaviour, he simply states his card is running well, in the face of many accusations that come from non 970 owners that the card doesn't work. Fact is, like the Anandtech article shows, most people are finding a hard time forcing the issue.
It doesn't mean it's not there though, simply that his needs aren't meeting any problems. If that irks you enough that you wish to call out fanboy, it paints the same picture on you I'm afraid.

I can say I am extremely happy with my Nvidia card without the need to slag of AMD in the same sentence.
I can also say I am extremely Happy with my Radeon card without the need to slag of Nvidia, get my point?
P.S. don't be afraid.