Monday, April 15th 2019
MSI Betrays AMD's Socket AM4 Longevity Promise: No Zen2 for 300-series?
Greedy motherboard vendors such as MSI want you to buy a new motherboard every two generations of processor for no sound reason at all. MSI is reportedly blocking support for 3rd generation Ryzen "Matisse" processors on its AMD 300-series chipset motherboards, including those based on high-end AMD X370 and OC-capable B350 chipsets. This would also put those who own $300 motherboards such as the X370 XPower out of luck. To recap, AMD announced on numerous occasions that it doesn't want to be a greedy clique like its competitor, by forcing motherboard upgrades and promised that socket AM4 motherboards will be backwards and forwards compatible with at least four generations of Ryzen processors, running all the way up to 2020.
This normally should mean that any 300-series motherboard must support 4th generation Ryzen processors with a simple BIOS update. Most 300-series motherboards, including from MSI, even ship with USB BIOS Flashback feature to help with forwards compatibility. Unfortunately, motherboard companies such as MSI care more about their bottom-lines than the consumer. In a support e-mail to an X370 XPower Titanium owner, MSI confirmed that it will not extend Zen 2 support to AMD 300-series. Other motherboard vendors could follow MSI's suit as a representative of another motherboard vendor, on condition of anonymity, told TechPowerUp that "Zen 2" processors have steeper electrical requirements that 300-series motherboards don't meet. This is an excuse similar to the one Intel gave for the planned obsolescence of its 100-series and 200-series chipsets, even as it was repeatedly proven that those motherboards can run and overclock 9th generation processors with custom firmware just fine. Would MSI care to explain whether a B450M PRO-M2 has a stronger VRM than an X370 XPower Titanium to warrant "Zen 2" support? Will all "Zen 2" processor SKUs have steep electrical requirements? Will there not be any SKUs with double-digit-Watt TDP ratings?
Update (16/04): MSI posted a clarification on this issue.
Source:
master3553 (Reddit)
This normally should mean that any 300-series motherboard must support 4th generation Ryzen processors with a simple BIOS update. Most 300-series motherboards, including from MSI, even ship with USB BIOS Flashback feature to help with forwards compatibility. Unfortunately, motherboard companies such as MSI care more about their bottom-lines than the consumer. In a support e-mail to an X370 XPower Titanium owner, MSI confirmed that it will not extend Zen 2 support to AMD 300-series. Other motherboard vendors could follow MSI's suit as a representative of another motherboard vendor, on condition of anonymity, told TechPowerUp that "Zen 2" processors have steeper electrical requirements that 300-series motherboards don't meet. This is an excuse similar to the one Intel gave for the planned obsolescence of its 100-series and 200-series chipsets, even as it was repeatedly proven that those motherboards can run and overclock 9th generation processors with custom firmware just fine. Would MSI care to explain whether a B450M PRO-M2 has a stronger VRM than an X370 XPower Titanium to warrant "Zen 2" support? Will all "Zen 2" processor SKUs have steep electrical requirements? Will there not be any SKUs with double-digit-Watt TDP ratings?
335 Comments on MSI Betrays AMD's Socket AM4 Longevity Promise: No Zen2 for 300-series?
For those(and the following) reasons your argument is without merit.Irony.Pointless posturing. All AM4 chipsets are electrically compatible with all Ryzen CPU's until AMD announces a change, which they haven't and have already said they won't for the next couple years. Boards based on them are required to support Ryzen 3(Zen2) at minimum.
But sure: if they push the clocks low enough, 16 cores at 95W aren't a problem.
It might be that we'll see high-clocked 8-core and low-clocked 16-core models. Although it would be a weird offer for consumers (slow 16 cores useful for what?).
It's a different story in server segment, where such a choice has been true for many years.Everything AMD has shown until now was Radeon VII. And it's not 40%.
Did you see the link, also EPYC (Zen2) reveal sometime earlier? AMD discussed the process characteristics of TSMC 7nm, it should be clear enough based on AT's power estimates that Zen2 (7nm TSMC) will be nearly 2x as efficient as Zen on GF 14nm, if not better than that.
Ask those who bought 8-core Ryzen system, with plans to upgrade later, if "10 or 12 core will likely run" is what they were expecting.It's your opinion. :)So give me 1 reason why it's not official yet.
Why aren't all companies, AMD included, saying: of course you'll be able to run Zen2 on your x370.
Why is AMD silent?
Why is MSI "testing potential compatibility"?Yeah. We'll see in few months. Someone will have a laugh, that's for sure. :)[/QUOTE]Of course it isn't. But it works on every board with a chipset that supports 9th gen.
This is what we're discussing here, right? Many people believed Ryzen 3000 will work on the AM4 motherboard they bought in 2017.Not possible. It makes no sense physically for an architecture to use half the power because it takes half the space. It wouldn't converge properly.
Well, unless we agree that Zen on GF 14nm was rubbish and there was a lot of place for improvement on it. And I really don't that was the case.
Let me correct myself, it is indeed 50% less power i.e. at least 2x as efficient ~ www.anandtech.com/show/13578/naples-rome-milan-zen-4-an-interview-with-amd-cto-mark-papermaster
The facts are, AMD designed the Ryzen series with upgrades specifically in mind. They have stated clearly that AM4 will be supported for several iterations of the Ryzen line. Motherboard makers are required, by contract, to follow with that design specification. Again, your nay-saying argument has no merit.
Everything else you say about MSI is false as they have already released a press update about the false news.
"GoldenX said:
3000 series APUs are Zen1+, like current 2000 series APUs are just Zen1."
the x470 and b450 refresh boards will be flowing out soon enough, for 'value' ryzen 3000 options
That could also be done as a "value add" (small charge) for customers and would also be a lot cheaper than having to restock/return a board that didn't work.
Some of the vendors already provide CPU and RAM insertion services.
...vendors are not AIBs.