that is a cheap shot by Microsoft to use youtube as an example, no doubt that is down to the fact that msn search sucks and Goggle is the dominant force for search engines.

Agreed. MS just wants everyone to play by their rules. Face it MS, Google is a verb now, so GOOGLE THAT!

WarEagleAUAgreed. MS just wants everyone to play by their rules. Face it MS, Google is a verb now, so GOOGLE THAT!

LOL so true!

MS just needs to face the facts that the world is coming to an end. Everything is becoming free, and soon the anti-christ will be born.

jocksteelukthat is a cheap shot by Microsoft to use youtube as an example, no doubt that is down to the fact that msn search sucks and Goggle is the dominant force for search engines.

I totally agree with that, imagine what MS would say if google launched an OS, they would try saying that it 'breached copyright' by being an OS :nutkick:

How the *insert colourful word here* can you copyright a double click, i just did 8 getting onto this damn topic :roll: , the scroll wheel i can understand, but microshaft are starting to take away human action :wtf:

Seany1212How the *insert colourful word here* can you copyright a double click, i just did 8 getting onto this damn topic :roll: , the scroll wheel i can understand, but microshaft are starting to take away human action :wtf:

But you do know html links only need a single click, right? >_>

Come on, who here can honestly say they don't want to see the two largest companies in the computer industry go at it...

newtekie1Come on, who here can honestly say they don't want to see the two largest companies in the computer industry go at it...

I'd rather see Jessica Alba and Salma Hayek go at it tbh.................

oh, right....sorry, mind was elsewhere then, yes google, MS, copyright, bad news etc,....

It would be sweet if Google released an OS.....and did everything XP/Vista did.....but better.....and it had it own drivers for everything, because it already knows.


Google and MS can't really fight, it would ruin both companies, a war would be a sinkhole for both of them.

ms breaks laws all the time, they outright steal other companys patanted and copyrighted goods and clame them as their own.......what a crock......

i can see people sending google donations just to help them bitchslap ms around if things got down and dirty lol

AshenSugarms breaks laws all the time, they outright steal other companys patanted and copyrighted goods and clame them as their own.......what a crock......

i can see people sending google donations just to help them bitchslap ms around if things got down and dirty lol

Name something recent that was patented or copyrighted that they stole and claimed as their own.

dont need to name something "recent" i can show results where they did it in the past, and KILLED the company they did it to or bought them out, anymore if a company gets ass ramed by ms they normaly dont even bother sueing, because ms has UNLIMITED $ for leigal fees where as most other software companys dont, ms also steals stuff then buys out the company they stole from to avoid these issues.

biggist one of the past was Stacker, ms stole it, changed the name and used it, they got a BETA version tho, full of buggs, they didnt even change the code, just the name, from stacker to doublespace, eventuly they lost in court, but not after screwing stacker over permenently(ruined the company)

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stac_Electronics

thats just the best known time they screwed somebody, and lost in court.

do some research, ms also effectivly "stole" IE core from a company by signing a contact that said the other company would get a % of the sales revnu from the sales of ie, then they gave IE away, in the end ms lost there as well, and if i remmber correctly ended up buying out the other company as well.......

ms is KNOW for doing this strongarm crap, its common knowlege, they only really care if its them thats on the "loosing end" of a situation.

I see nothing wrong with Microsoft's business practices, and nothing that backs up your claim that they consistanly steal patentted or copyrighted material.

ok heres one from THIS YEAR
yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/01/27/147243

Microsoft Copies Idea, Admits It, Then Patents It

An anonymous reader writes
"BlueJ is a popular academic IDE which lets students have a visual programming interface. Microsoft copied the design in their 'Object Test Bench' feature in Visual Studio 2005 and even admitted it. Now, a patent application has come to light which patents the very same feature, blatantly ignoring prior art."

thats intelectual propertie theift, something ms would sue over, but has no problem commiting themselves.

take the case of lindows ms claims they own the word "windows", outside the us they won a few cases, but in the states they really didnt have a legg to stand on, and the ONLY reasion they won was because they had the money to sue in 6 countrys at once.

or heres one of ms getting what hey pull on other companys

web.luchs.at/article.php?cat=10&aid=289

Microsoft steals linguistic Intellectual Property

Intellectual Property is all the fashion these days. Thoughts are used as weapons provided they end up in the wrong minds. Microsoft seems to use the Intellectual Property of others quite freely. This is not only true for the vast repertoire of Free Software that got incorporated into Microsoft products without consumers noticing. It is also true for the language of the Mapuche Indians in Chile who brought up an interesting issue in court.

"Mapuche Indians in Chile are trying to take Microsoft to court in a legal battle that raises the question of whether anyone can ever "own" the language they speak. The row was sparked by Microsoft's decision last month to launch its Windows software package in Mapuzugun, a Mapuche tongue spoken by around 400,000 indigenous Chileans, mostly in the south of the country. ... Mapuche tribal leaders have accused the U.S. company of violating their cultural and collective heritage by translating the software into Mapuzugun without their permission. ..."

Intellectual Piracy is rampant even in the best families, Microsoft being one of them. On the other this new kind of "piracy" may fall on the heads of its creator - the term Intellectual Property itself.

want some examples of ms getting mad that what they consider their idea being used by others

www.theregister.co.uk/2007/03/06/microsoft_google_hypocrisy/

www.techcrunch.com/2006/09/01/microsoft-cries-foul-at-stolen-interface/

news.com.com/2100-1012_3-6159305.html

Microsoft is accusing rival IBM of orchestrating a campaign to block efforts to standardize Office document formats.

In an open letter released Wednesday, Microsoft executives contend that IBM is trying to influence the standards process to limit choice. It also said that IBM is encouraging governments to mandate a document format that IBM favors.

The International Organization for Standardization (ISO) is in the process of evaluating Microsoft's Office Open XML (OOXML)--the default document formats in Microsoft Office 2007--as a standard. Such a ratification would be significant, particularly to governments that favor ISO certification for digital documents.

IBM and other Microsoft competitors favor OpenDocument Format (ODF), a format that has been standardized at the ISO. Government customers, including Massachusetts and some European countries, back ODF.

Microsoft contends that IBM is trying "to force ODF on users through public procurement mandates," which would have a negative effect on customers and the marketplace.

The open letter is signed by Tom Robertson, Microsoft's general manager for interoperability and standards, and by Jean Paoli, the company's general manager of interoperability and XML architecture.

In an interview with CNET News.com, Robertson said that IBM is "orchestrating a broad-based campaign" to prevent the ISO from even considering OOXML for standardization.

"We see a level of hypocrisy in IBM's activities...They have long called on us to standardize formats, make the IP (intellectual property) freely available to the broader community, and we've done it. Now that that is done, they are putting a lot of resources to block standardization" of OOXML, Robertson said. "IBM is fundamentally on the wrong side of the industry."

Contacted on Tuesday, an IBM representative declined to comment via phone or e-mail.

In the past, IBM representatives--and other Microsoft foes--have called OOXML technically flawed and not fully "open" because it is controlled by Microsoft.

Robertson said that Microsoft chose to publish the letter to "shine a light" on IBM's activities. He noted that IBM was the only representative to vote against making OOXML a standard at Ecma International, another Europe-based standards body.

He declined to offer more details on IBM's activities because the ISO standardization process is closed.

"Part of (the open letter) is to highlight what IBM is doing and its fundamentally negative implications for customers and the industry as a whole," Robertson said.

Following standardization late last year at Ecma, Microsoft submitted Open XML to ISO through its "fast-track" process, which takes several months.

During an initial 30-day comment period, which ended earlier this month, there were 20 country representatives at ISO that made "contradictions," or comments, on the Open XML specification, according to people familiar with the proceedings. The comments, which could be minor, came from nearly one-third of the total 66 country representatives at the ISO, according to Andrew Updegrove, an attorney at Gesmer Updegrove and a standards expert.

Comments on the ISO submission are expected to be made public by the end of February.

so if ms cant get their way its hypocracy but if they screw somebody else over thats kool


or some older acctions of ms.

news.com.com/2100-1023-274998.html

MSN lockout stirs antitrust rumblings

update As some third-party browsers remain unable to access Microsoft's popular MSN.com Web site for a second day, the lockout has stirred up further anti-competitive concerns about the giant software maker.

Microsoft has said it has reopened the redesigned MSN site to rival browser makers, but as of Friday morning, the most recent browsers from Mozilla.org and Opera Software still could not access MSN. Netscape users also continued to report access problems.

Late Thursday, the Washington-based trade group ProComp joined the outcry against the browser lockout by asking state and federal trustbusters to get involved. The continuing antitrust lawsuit against Microsoft, now moving into what should be its final stage, got its start in the mid-1990s because of concerns that the company was using its dominant position in operating systems software to gain an unfair market advantage for its Internet Explorer browser.

In a letter addressed to U.S. Assistant Attorney General Charles James and Iowa State Attorney General Tom Miller, ProComp President Mike Pettit asked that interim remedies be immediately imposed.

"We make this request to you because we have learned over the past few days of yet a new anti-competitive tactic by Microsoft: an effort to discriminate against non-Microsoft Internet browsers by limiting their interoperability with Microsoft-owned Web sites," Pettit wrote.

As first reported by CNET News.com, some Mozilla and Opera users found on Thursday that they could not access the MSN site. Instead, they were given the option of downloading a version of Microsoft's Internet Explorer. Later on Thursday, Microsoft altered the setup.

Besides problems already reported, the ProComp letter asserts that "MSN-Japan no longer can be rendered by non-Microsoft browsers" and that at Microsoft's Game Zone Web site "Netscape users have begun to receive an odd, and self-contradictory, error message."

Hotmail troubles
Also, as of Thursday, Microsoft reported on its support site that some Mac users attempting to send or retrieve mail from an MSN Hotmail account or to configure a new account may find that their Hotmail folders have disappeared or are not displayed. In offering a workaround, the company said that the behavior stems from a security update to Hotmail servers that disabled client programs' ability to access or send mail.

A spokesperson for Microsoft's Macintosh Business Unit said that a fix was in the works and that the problem affected no other e-mail clients.

As the browser lockout entered its second day, accusations and counteraccusations of software incompatibilities and hardball exclusionary tactics began to fly.

Microsoft on Thursday contended that the upgraded MSN site uses World Wide Web Consortium (W3C) standards and that browsers that don't conform to the standards are being blocked out.

"We supported the latest W3C standards when developing the content and services delivered from MSN," Bob Visse, the director of MSN marketing, said in an e-mail Friday. He added that Microsoft wants users to visit the Web site "regardless of the browser they choose."

But Visse recommended that for the best experience with MSN, customers should use a browser that tightly adheres to the W3C standard.

"If customers choose to use a browser that does not tightly support W3C standards, then they may encounter a less then optimal experience on MSN," he said.

On Thursday, he had said that the company expected to have MSN.com fully accessible to the browsers later in the day.

"Lack of respect" for standards
The main rival browser makers maintain that their applications are compatible with international standards.

"Maybe Microsoft should take a look at its lack of respect for (W3C) international Internet standards before bad-mouthing others," said Jon von Tetzchner, the chief executive of Norwegian browser maker Opera Software. "The irony of Microsoft's claim to standards support is complete when you check the MSN.com site for compliance with XHTML."

XHTML, a new language that became a standard last year, is based on the popular XML (Extensible Markup Language) standard for exchanging information. It breaks new ground by giving Web developers a way to mix and match various XML-based languages and documents on their Web pages.

A check of MSN via the W3C's standards validation service returned several documents showing incidents of noncompliance. The W3C develops industry standards for Web technologies.

"Sorry, this document does not validate as XHTML 1.0 Strict," the validation page reads.

"Microsoft is trying to further their market share and weed out alternative browsers under the guise of W3C standards, which they themselves do not support fully," said Ben Dyer, a senior Internet developer with Imaginuity Interactive in Dallas. "If they were truly committed to restricting browsers that do not correctly implement W3C standards, they would also be restricting all versions of Internet Explorer (for the PC) from at least version 5.5 on back."

Earlier versions of the Netscape Navigator browser--Microsoft's chief competitor in the early days of the browser battle--continued to jam and crash when trying to reach MSN, although the latest version, 6.1, seems to be working. Although Microsoft says MSN.com supports Netscape 4.7 and all later versions, many News.com readers have complained of being locked out of MSN.com while using version 4.7.

In addition, as of midmorning Friday, some users of Netscape 6.1 reported they were unable to access Microsoft's .Net Passport sign-in service through MSN. Passport is Microsoft's universal sign-in software that offers personalized content and services throughout its network of Web sites.

When trying to sign on to the My MSN personalization section, Netscape 6.1 users were greeted with a message that read: "Unfortunately, Microsoft .NET Passport does not support the Web browsing software you are using. Please use supported browsing software such as Microsoft Internet Explorer version 4.0 or later, or Netscape Navigator versions 4.08-4.82."

On Thursday, Visse partly laid responsibility for the problems on makers of other browsers.

"This is one of those things that's a two-way street," he said. "The better job the Opera and Mozilla open-source projects (do of) support(ing) W3C standards, the better experience those users will be able to receive on the MSN site."

Bill Turner, a Dallas-based Web designer, contended that "as far as standards compliance goes, Mozilla and Opera do a pretty good job in most areas."

Turner also faulted Microsoft for saying one thing but doing another. "They announce that they're only going to support W3C standards-compliant browsers, and then they fail to write a W3C standards-compliant web page."

Adam Fogg, a Web developer in Wayland, Mass., noted that the MSN home page renders perfectly--if saved to the hard drive using Internet Explorer and then opened using Opera.

"This is an obvious monopolistic ploy by Microsoft...one which has no basis in technical realities," he said. "Opera and Mozilla have been at the forefront of standards compliance, while Microsoft has consistently been the biggest offender. Microsoft's hypocrisy in this matter is infuriating."

Seeking immediate antitrust action
ProComp, whose members include Microsoft rivals AOL Time Warner and Sun Microsystems, are now telling trustbusters that the MSN rival browser blockage demands an immediate response based on the original antitrust ruling largely upheld in June by a federal appeals court.

The appeals court found that Microsoft's commingling of Internet Explorer and Windows 95 and 98 software code hampered competition from Netscape Communications, which is now owned by AOL Time Warner. The government so far has not sought interim--or temporary--remedies against Microsoft ahead of a scheduled March hearing for final action. The Justice Department and 18 states also are engaged in fierce negotiations to settle the case before a court-imposed Nov. 2 deadline.

Besides encouraging interim action against Microsoft, ProComp asked that the government impose tough permanent restrictions based on the antitrust ruling.

"The latest actions by Microsoft should demonstrate the true character of Microsoft and its breathtaking disregard for software users, and should underscore the need for a tough, comprehensive remedy," Pettit wrote.

Browser matters have been further complicated by Yahoo's recent move to exploit some of the customization functions of Internet Explorer.

On Thursday, Microsoft launched its newest operating system, Windows XP, the same day it had planned for a face-lift of MSN. That Web site is set to become, via Windows XP, a major end point for Web services, through which the company plans to offer software by subscription.

Besides launching MSN as the default home page, Internet Explorer 6 replaces the more typical "page not found" with an MSN search page.

And Windows XP has a wide range of MSN hooks, including its Internet search feature from the Start Menu and the Passport authentication feature.

"As a developer, I have four browsers on the system including IE so I don't really care about the block," said Jim Farnsworth, an engineering consultant from Kenosha, Wis. "But I don't understand what MSN could possibly hope to gain from this. If the intent is to somehow force people to start using IE or MSN Explorer, then I think MSN will be sadly disappointed at the result. Users of other browsers will simply go away, and I don't think they'll be back."

more shoing ms's hyporacy.......sure its not theift in this case, but its bullshit none the less.

| Soon, MS-DOS 6.0 was released, including the Microsoft DoubleSpace
| disk compression utility program. Stac successfully sued Microsoft
| for patent infringement regarding the compression algorithm
| used in DoubleSpace...
|
| F. Scott Deaver, owner of Failsafe Designs, says Microsoft is guilty of
| the "outright theft" of his product name and intellectual property
| (IP)...
|
| Alacritech sued Microsoft in Federal District Court on August 11,
| 2004, alleging that Microsoft's existing and future operating
| systems containing the "Chimney" TCP offload architecture uses
| Alacritech's proprietary SLIC Technology architecture...
|
| In April 2001, Intertrust initiated a lawsuit against Microsoft. The
| lawsuit ultimately accused Microsoft of infringing 11 of Intertrust's
| patents and almost 130 of the company's patent claims...
|
| Visto Corporation has filed a legal action against Microsoft for
| misappropriating Visto's intellectual property... "Microsoft has a
| long and well-documented history of acquiring the technology of
| others, branding it as their own, and entering new markets," said
| Mr. Bogosian...
|
| Telecoms company AT&T accused Microsoft of infringing its patent for
| a digital speech coder in its Window software in a lawsuit it filed
| in 2000...
|
| The likelihood of Microsoft having to pay millions of dollars in
| damages for infringing the contested Eolas patent for web browser
| technology increased last week when the US Patent and Trademark
| Office reaffirmed the patent's validity...
|
| A bitter fight has broken out between Symantec and Microsoft.
| Symantec claims that Microsoft stole code from Veritas software..

and a list of companys ms has bought out, many(or even most) being companys they stole from and found it easyer to buy out then go to court with
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_companies_acquired_by_Microsoft_Corporation

also read this
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace%2C_extend_and_extinguish
its how ms does buisness, and its how they have done buisness for many years.


little movie you shoudl see
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pirates_of_Silicon_Valley


injoy, oh and somebody shoul have warrned you (newtekie1) that its not wise to call me a lier :) because if i state something as fact i can almost alwase back it up(sometimes i cant find the sorces again...damn slow 56k)

ask around tho, when it comes to this stuff......well i have no life and spend ALOT of time "geeking"

im an ms windows 2003 user, but i dont like a HUGE part of how ms does buisness, they screw people and companys over and get away with it.

I see nothing wrong there, Microsoft is above all laws.

Google Os ?!?!?

Ok, follow up joke but check these rants out, start around comment 70 another site that thinks google isn't too far from an OS.
simeons.wordpress.com/2007/03/04/the-real-google-phone/

google has been working on their own *nix version for some time, it wont beable to take windows place for gaming, but for buisness and most home users it could, as could many free linux/unix versions i have used/tested :)

Google already has their own internal *nix distro for their servers.

newtekie1Name something recent that was patented or copyrighted that they stole and claimed as their own.

Vista. Striking resemblence to MAC OS X? Yes. :D