I'm surprised that so many people consider themselves as geeks tech savvy people and yet we have Vega 8 sure but refined and it is pretty good with what it offers today in a form of an APU. What would it take for you to understand that we won't see improvements like we see in GPUs here.
I'm really excited with what I see with the 4700G with the performance.

Vya DomusBecause they are not within the same context, I explained it subsequently, APUs need to remain cheap and not overlap with dedicated offerings (obviously) so there has to be a ceiling in terms of what you can expect which is much, much lower, compared to CPU performance at large where people are expected to pay even thousands of dollars. You are not going to see a 1000$ APU from AMD or Intel (not that sure about this one :rolleyes:) so you shouldn't expect the same push for advancement, it's all perfectly logical. Like that guy, you don't, or don't want to understand that the segment in which these things exist has many constraints that prohibit significant leaps in performance of the same order compared to other segments.



Because as I explained, no one has a need for it. You can just buy a dedicated GPU that isn't thermally and power constrained as an iGPU would be, who buys into such an expensive platform, has a need for non trivial GPU power but for some inexplicable reason they don't want a dedicated card. We are talking about desktop PCs for Christ sake, not fully integrated systems like a console. There is really big disconnect between what thees products are for and what you guys understand they are for, nothing I can do about that.

In quite the same vein you could say there was no need at all for Intel to release anything over a quad core. And yet, with higher core counts available, you see a shift in both camps, and Intel offers 250% the core count now compared to Skylake. Demand for six cores might have existed even before that, but not 'enough' for people to buy expensive HEDT platforms for it. Regardless, now that they exist, they do get sold. Funny how that works... :)

Demand doesn't always exist, smart companies create it. Thought leaders create it. But I get what you're saying, in terms of 'being competitive' as an underdog, sure you can keep doing the cheap thing that always worked. But is that what we'd like to see? Do we like to see eternal quad cores? Its more of the same, in the end. Also, it was AMD itself that pushed the APU with a heavy focus on graphics, and the demand for powerful IGPs is certainly real, you say no market, but that only goes on the desktop, really.

We're NOT talking only about desktop PC's, we're talking about IGP capability and the biggest market for that is mobile, specifically laptops, where Intel is still very dominant and in a good position to remain so, even with inferior chips. If AMD is interested in gaining share, they will need to have more than a few Watts TDP in terms of USPs.

wahdangunbecause its useless to use faster IGP when the platform still use dual channel ddr4. it will bottleneck it really hard, unless amd use quad or octo channel ram like in TRX platform or moving to ddr5.

There are examples of CPUs that offered fast IGPs with more strict RAM limitations, for example the i7 5775C. There was also a Kaby Lake - AMD effort if I recall. Its possible, but it requires new design.

I mean sure this kind of potential won't replace a good discrete GPU or will post some record, but for those who are really on tight budget or wouldn't mind using iGPU until their savings can get them a proper GPU, this APU is a good pick/alternative to Intel's offerings.

AnarchoPrimitiv , I completely agree with that strategical view; in fact a lot of it I wanted to write as a later detailed case-observation.

lexluthermiesterThis was for two reasons. 1. AMD needed to focus their resources on what could make them the most money and 2. There is much more money in the mid-range and budget sector of the GPU market. Much more money to be made. And let's be fair, the 5600/XT and 5700/XT are very winning cards for the money.

Yes, intel kinda proved that a while ago already.
However, I hate it when the primary objective of a company becomes making more $ at the cost of other things. This is a long complex talk.
What I think AMD needs now is good contracts with large server manufactures like Dell, IBM, etc. We want to see the CPUs to be widely available across all big manufacture's partemers.

My biggest problem with APUs (and IGPs) is that the 4700G will still be a vaible CPU in 3 years from now, but with next-gen consoles driving up the minimum requirements for a lot of games, the Vega8 will not be viable again in short order.

Outside of laptops, IGPs are really only a temporary stopgap or an emergency solution for when a dGPU fails and you need to troubleshoot or use the PC during the RMA process.

Chrispy_My biggest problem with APUs (and IGPs) is that the 4700G will still be a vaible CPU in 3 years from now, but with next-gen consoles driving up the minimum requirements for a lot of games, the Vega8 will not be viable again in short order.

Outside of laptops, IGPs are really only a temporary stopgap or an emergency solution for when a dGPU fails and you need to troubleshoot or use the PC during the RMA process.

That's not entirely accurate it'll be plenty viable depending on needs and usage. It'll only ever be as good as it was intended and designed to be however.

AnarchoPrimitivMindshare is where Nvidia beat them

I think you've misspelled "spreading FUD".
I've just watched "let's compare PS4 Pro to 2080Ti to see if checkboarding is better than DLSS" and it will keep me impressed for a while.

DLSS is also the best contender in lame excluses list, to replace RT, once AMD rolls it out and we get 8nm Ampere vs 7nm RDNA2.

AssimilatorWhy is AMD continuing to shoehorn this barely-competitive GPU architecture from 2017 into APUs they're releasing in 2020?

They've explicitly stated it was due to schedules not matching.
RDNA1 also seems like a stop gap, and the way I read slides, AMD plans to roll out yet another set of next gen GPUs next year.

So this is all fine and dandy, but there's a big problem with the builds that are used at enthusiast sites for APUs.

Here they are, emphasis added:
Ryzen 7 Pro 4750G (former Pro 4700G) / Ryzen 7 4700G
Asus Prime B550M-A
2x8GB DDR4-4133

With an APU based system do think you're going to get DDR4-4133?

Do you think you're going to get an APU on a good B440 motherboard that can handle that?

A much more likely setup is an 510 motherboard with DDR4-2400 or 2666 on an OEM box. We've known for a long time that bumping up RAM speed has significant gains on APUs, but being the low-budget option for desktops nobody does that.

A lot of people are liable to buy these things and be quite disappointed by their real-world results.

InVasManiThat's not entirely accurate it'll be plenty viable depending on needs and usage. It'll only ever be as good as it was intended and designed to be however.

My point is that game requirements evolve but the APU you've bought doesn't. In three years from now it'll still run the games that exist in 2020, but it won't run 2023's games very well, or at all.

RandallFlaggA much more likely setup is an 510 motherboard with DDR4-2400 or 2666 on an OEM box.
A lot of people are liable to buy these things and be quite disappointed by their real-world results.

...and dual-channel isn't even guaranteed. Half of them will be sold with 1x8GB DDR4-2400 because that's the cheapest way to satisfy "8GB RAM" on the spec list.

Chrispy_...and dual-channel isn't even guaranteed. Half of them will be sold with 1x8GB DDR4-2400 because that's the cheapest way to satisfy "8GB RAM" on the spec list.

Exactly. Reviews where people hop up low end CPUs with radically fast RAM are fairly useless in this space. It reminds me of back when people would put turbos on Honda Civics and hop them up to 350HP, and the result was a bunch of people buying 98HP Civics and putting loud mufflers on them...

I just looked at BB at their AIO APU PCs.

This is what I found, this is a $700 all in one with an AMD A9 APU paired with single channel DDR4-2133.

Chrispy_My point is that game requirements evolve but the APU you've bought doesn't. In three years from now it'll still run the games that exist in 2020, but it won't run 2023's games very well, or at all.


...and dual-channel isn't even guaranteed. Half of them will be sold with 1x8GB DDR4-2400 because that's the cheapest way to satisfy "8GB RAM" on the spec list.

OR... 2023 games have beem tempted by the pervasively affordable & mobile apu's market size, and adapted away from dgpu strengths (as they had to when IGPs and ram were crap) & toward apu strengths, like high bandwidth Fabric links to slower, but ~huge, GPU cache.

Chrispy_My point is that game requirements evolve but the APU you've bought doesn't. In three years from now it'll still run the games that exist in 2020, but it won't run 2023's games very well, or at all.


...and dual-channel isn't even guaranteed. Half of them will be sold with 1x8GB DDR4-2400 because that's the cheapest way to satisfy "8GB RAM" on the spec list.

I hope amd starts to put its foot down w/ oems that sell this crap.

I hope people put their foot down on oem's selling them that crap

msroadkill612I hope amd starts to put its foot down w/ oems that sell this crap.

I still can't buy a nice, alloy/magnesium/carbon 4800U with LPDDR4X anywhere. I've been trying for months!
The only stuff you can buy is cheap plastic shit with low-end Renoir, mediocre screens, smaller batteries and low-budget cooling.

InVasManiI hope people put their foot down on oem's selling them that crap

Not all know eg. that single channel ram is vandalism on an APU.

Chrispy_I still can't buy a nice, alloy/magnesium/carbon 4800U with LPDDR4X anywhere. I've been trying for months!
The only stuff you can buy is cheap plastic shit with low-end Renoir, mediocre screens, smaller batteries and low-budget cooling.

I hazily recall hearing of a german laptop maker that does really classy stuff at fair prices.
www.google.com/search?q=german+made+laptop&oq=german+made+laptop&aqs=chrome..69i57j0.13439j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

msroadkill612I hazily recall hearing of a german laptop maker that does really classy stuff at fair prices.
www.google.com/search?q=german+made+laptop&oq=german+made+laptop&aqs=chrome..69i57j0.13439j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

Schenker are okay, but they're generic whitebooks made by Clevo and I've been dabbling with them for over a decade.

Nothing wrong with them but they're usually on the more plastic side of things and bulkier because of their modular nature; I suspect none of them use soldered LPDDR4X because that goes against the configurable nature of those Clevo whitebooks.