Sunday, August 23rd 2020

NVIDIA 12-pin Connector Pictured Next to 8-pin PCIe - It's Tiny

Aug 23rd, 2020 20:49 Discuss (51 Comments)

Over the weekend, we got some of the first pictures of a production-grade NVIDIA 12-pin graphics card power connector that debuts with the company's GeForce "Ampere" Founders Edition graphics cards. HardwareLuxx.de received a set of modular cables by Seasonic that can be plugged into the company's modular PSUs, directly putting out a 12-pin connector. The publication's editor Andreas Schilling posted this striking picture that is sure to change our perspective about the 12-pin connector - it is tiny!

Called the Molex Micro-Fit 3.0 12-pin connector, the NVIDIA 12-pin connector looks visibly smaller than a single 8-pin PCIe power connector, and only slightly broader. It yet uses high gauge wires and pins, so it can push up to 600 W of power - more power than two 8-pin connectors. The space-saving connector shouldn't just be easier to plug in, but also cable-manage, since you're only having to wrestle with one cable, even for a high-end graphics card. Not only is the connector NVIDIA-exclusive, but there are also indications that only the Founders Edition (reference design) GeForce "Ampere" cards feature it, while custom-design cards based on the GPUs make do with a bunch of 8-pin PCIe power connectors.

Source: Andreas Schilling (Twitter)

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51 Comments on NVIDIA 12-pin Connector Pictured Next to 8-pin PCIe - It's Tiny

#26

dj-electric

6 12V+ 18AWG wires will be 6 12V+ 18AWG wires, and on the opposite side similar or more 12V- wires.
As long as they come from the very same source, there's absolutely nothing magical about the current capability of the new connector compared to traditional way of getting this amount of wires into a card.

This seems to be for aesthetic reasons exclusively. Personally, im thankful that AIB designs stick to the older, mini-fit Molex design of connectors and not the micro-fit one. The crimps are not cross compatible and it would not be fun sitting and crimping new crimps into previous wires to fit it

#27

ExcuseMeWtf

If it's physically smaller AND can supply more power AND is not nVidia proprietary, then count me in. I hope AMD will start doing same thing and we just make a switch.

A 6-pin PCIe connector is designed for just 75 watts. It would take eight of those to equal the 600-watt rating of the new micro 12-pin connector and five or six of them to match the power draw of the new graphics card.

And 8-pin PCIe is designed for 150 watts... yet has same amount of +12V pins as 6-pin PCIe rated for 75W! Clearly, there is some headroom in 6-pin connector.

#28

laszlo

i wonder what is at the other end of the cable .... 2 pcie 6 pin? as can't be 2 sata or molex for sure... i saw on picture lol 2* 8 pin...shit

#29

delshay

The new 12 pin connector is cost cutting. Other than buying 3 male & 3 female connector you can now buy one of each which cuts down cost when bought in bulk. You can fit these to all new GFX cards that come to the market even low powered ones just leave some of the pins disconnect for low powered cards at the PCB end.

Great thinking by Nvidia cost saving on cards. AMD should follow this path too.

It also saves PCB space, great for a Nano card.

EDIT: New PSU that come to the market should follow this path, remove all 8 pin & replace with 12 pin for cost saving.

#30

Lionheart

FluffmeisterThat looks like a good idea, but AMD fans want lots of connectors so they can be upset.

What???

#31

Calmmo

In theory I don't see why I would be opposed to this, if down the line it turns out all VGA PSU cables turn into this why not. One less cable to fiddle with for higher end gpu's.
Doubt it, but maybe.

#32

Fluffmeister

LionheartWhat???

It's soo confusing you need two what's?

Like power cables, why have one when two will do!

#33

Xajel

At first, I was skeptical...

I mean, I hate different connectors, new standards which doesn't bring significant changes. And I specifically hates proprietary techs.

But seeing this now, it's much smaller, makes me wondering why in the first place the ATX shit used those bulky cables in the first place !!

Did I mention I hate bulk cables !! Yes, I hated those dual cables, even a single 6-pin cable is bulky.

Now, I really hope this becomes a standard, and be used by not just NV and AMD GPU's, but even the bulky 4/8 pin CPU power in the motherboard. Hell, even the bulky 24pin main motherboard cable, sadly the last one is already being replaced by the new 12V0 standard, smaller yes but not at small this molex micro-fit thing.

#34

BluesFanUK

Sadly there will still be a complete lack of common sense amongst PC enthusiasts when these get released. At this point it's not about whether you can afford the card, it's the principle. Keep paying the ridiculous prices and it only encourages Nvidia to tack on extra costs.

#35

Dredi

FluffmeisterIt's soo confusing you need two what's?

Like power cables, why have one when two will do!

Well now you have three kinds of cables instead of two kinds. Seems like an improvement :roll:

Silly that the 8pin mini fit jr can carry more amps than 12pin micro fit jr used here, according to the connector manufacturers spec (40A vs. 33A). The problem has always been just the extremely low specification set by pci-sig for the 6&8 pin connectors.

#36

newtekie1

Semi-Retired Folder

watzupkenIf this has been the standard starting 2018, I don't see this new connector when you purchase a new PSU over the last 2 years. I can take back the "proprietary" word that I mentioned earlier, but still it does not change the fact that its still making their consumers jump through hoops and loops just to be able to use their GPU.

I didn't say it was "the" standard I said it was "a" standard. New standards take time to be adopted into the consumer space. They have to start using them somewhere. And I hate to be the historian here, but PSUs didn't start including 6/8-Pin PCI-E connectors until graphics cards started coming out that used them.

ExcuseMeWtfAnd 8-pin PCIe is designed for 150 watts... yet has same amount of +12V pins as 6-pin PCIe rated for 75W! Clearly, there is some headroom in 6-pin connector.

That's not true. A 6-pin PCI-E connector only has to have 2 +12v wires, the 8-pin has to have 3 +12v connectors.

#37

ExcuseMeWtf

newtekie1That's not true. A 6-pin PCI-E connector only has to have 2 +12v wires,

Any source for that?

Intel's PSU Design Guide does not mention only 2 pins being required in relevant section (4.2.2.4)

Even if it was the case, none of major PSU makers are intentionally omitting one 12V pin on their 6-pin connectors.

#38

dj-electric

newtekie1I didn't say it was "the" standard I said it was "a" standard. New standards take time to be adopted into the consumer space. They have to start using them somewhere. And I hate to be the historian here, but PSUs didn't start including 6/8-Pin PCI-E connectors until graphics cards started coming out that used them.

That's not true. A 6-pin PCI-E connector only has to have 2 +12v wires, the 8-pin has to have 3 +12v connectors.

Its true that the standard asks for 2 12V+ contacts, but out-of-PSU standard has been 3 12V+ contacts for quite a long time now. Basically, this new standard just forces the industry to have more contacts, even though it does not really needs it.

#39

Th3pwn3r

LionheartWhat???

Lol. I get his post. It's more of a joke. People complain about anything they can. And yeah, it would be nice if we could all agree on a new standard. At some point we either need newer cables or way more efficient hardware.

#40

Lionheart

Th3pwn3rLol. I get his post. It's more of a joke. People complain about anything they can. And yeah, it would be nice if we could all agree on a new standard. At some point we either need newer cables or way more efficient hardware.

Fair enough, the joke went right over my head I guess.

#41

Diverge

Not sure why there's such drama around this new connecter. The 6/8 pin PCIe are standardized. Creating an adapter from one standardized connector to another is easy, as long as proper gauge wire is used.

#42

Renald

Since those cards will aims at 4 digits wallets, I'm not buying it ... even if my wallet is actually deep enough.

#43

Aerpoweron

Since the new connector is quite small, i wonder how hard it is to make custom crimped cables for it. It does not look like as it would be easy :(

#44

Jism

Perhaps because of the additional, overclocking headroom. It's a monster chip, and pushing higher clocks means more current. I'm sure the thing would run fine stock on a simple 8 Pin. 150W alone is'nt the max of a 8 pin connector. You can easily push 5 times through it as long as the rest of the system such as connectors, gauge of wires and the PSU are up to it. Hell even up to 12A per 1 12V wire is technically possible.

I mean in overclocking days i pushed huge amount of currents through the board and PCI-E power cables. The standards are a pretty much at the low side of what any good quality PSU can (really) do.

#45

newtekie1

Semi-Retired Folder

ExcuseMeWtfAny source for that?

Intel's PSU Design Guide does not mention only 2 pins being required in relevant section (4.2.2.4)

Even if it was the case, none of major PSU makers are intentionally omitting one 12V pin on their 6-pin connectors.

The ATX Standard says 2 pins. PSU manufacturers have been doing 3 so the connector can be used as either a 6-pin or 8-pin. I mean, when is the last time you've seen a true 6-pin connector?

dj-electricIts true that the standard asks for 2 12V+ contacts, but out-of-PSU standard has been 3 12V+ contacts for quite a long time now. Basically, this new standard just forces the industry to have more contacts, even though it does not really needs it.

PSU manufacturers haven't had true 6-pin connectors in years. They all are 6+2 connectors that have 3 wires so they can be used as either 6-pin or 8-pin connectors.

#46

R-T-B

phanbueyYay standards!

Oh wait.

I mean it's a molex part. It's basically already a standard as such, just an unused one until now.

#47

Caring1

JismPerhaps because of the additional, overclocking headroom. It's a monster chip, and pushing higher clocks means more current. I'm sure the thing would run fine stock on a simple 8 Pin. 150W alone is'nt the max of a 8 pin connector. You can easily push 5 times through it as long as the rest of the system such as connectors, gauge of wires and the PSU are up to it. Hell even up to 12A per 1 12V wire is technically possible.

I mean in overclocking days i pushed huge amount of currents through the board and PCI-E power cables. The standards are a pretty much at the low side of what any good quality PSU can (really) do.

Exactly the point I was alluding to.
Shows the recommendation for a bigger PSU is only so it can supply a higher Amperage over the rails, through exactly the same gauge wire as we have had.

#48

R-T-B

JustAnEngineerSuccessful engineering relies very heavily on getting the math right.

Even if the cable from the PSU to the PCIe connector is over-designed so that it can handle much more current than the PCIe standard says that it must, we don't know if the circuit inside the PSU has also been over-designed. The fire could start in the connectors or inside the PSU instead of in the cables. There's probably some safety margin above the design rating before we start a fire, but running two, three or four times the rated power is likely to be a bad thing.

Just FYI, I "yolo-ran" some pcie cables well above their specs (though just short of double) in the fermi era with a bios mod. The cables stood up ok, anyways, so they do have some overrating.

#49

ExcuseMeWtf

newtekie1The ATX Standard says 2 pins.

Perhaps in some older version. Linked Intel's design guideline states otherwise.

PSU manufacturers have been doing 3 so the connector can be used as either a 6-pin or 8-pin. I mean, when is the last time you've seen a true 6-pin connector?

PSU manufacturers haven't had true 6-pin connectors in years. They all are 6+2 connectors that have 3 wires so they can be used as either 6-pin or 8-pin connectors.

Multiple low end OEM offerings, in particular from FSP and older Delta made Chieftecs, common on 2nd hand market in my country use them. And those indeed do have 3 +12V wires as shown on pictures from listings.

Even if ATX standard did indeed say about 2 +12V wires, it doesn't even matter, when people actually get 3 wire connectors anyways. Anyway don't see the problem. It's better that way in the first place, and clearly OEMs aren't that greedy to save on that bit of extra wire.

#50

Searing

kayjay010101The day that'll happen is the day we'll see GPUs rated in kilowatts. We'd need a new electrical system as most electrical installations in houses is capped at 230V/10A in Europe or 120V/16A in North America, which works out to 2300W and 1920W respectively, per course. If a card is drawing 1.2kW, then the rest of the PC is probably drawing close to 1.6 (300W CPU, plus some loss due to inefficiency in the PSU and other power draw from SSD/HDDs, fans, LEDs, etc.), which is only 320W off the limit of the breaker. Guidelines say to never exceed 80% usage on a single course, and that number is already 75W over. So when we start seeing 1.2kW cards we'd also probably need to get bigger courses, atleast in North America.
Not to mention the hard limit of 5nm as it seems quantum tunneling is a major barrier to go denser than that in the consumer space and still be able to turn a profit. With 5nm being the barrier, the only way to get anywhere close to 600W+ would be MCM.

Rumors are the FE cards will ship with the required adapter to use 3x 8pin PCIe connectors. So no need for a new PSU or new PSU cable just yet. If we are to believe the rumors, at least.

Rumors indicate they are, and it'll only be for the FE cards. AIB cards will still use traditional PCIe power connectors.

More likely 3x 8pin, as dual 8pin is only capable of 300W, which these cards are rumored to exceed at stock. Hence the new 12pin connector being able to go upto 600W.

nope, already confirmed by nvidia to be an 8+8 adapter

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NVIDIA 12-pin Connector Pictured Next to 8-pin PCIe - It's Tiny

51 Comments on NVIDIA 12-pin Connector Pictured Next to 8-pin PCIe - It's Tiny

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