Really? You made a launcher for 12 games?

Dunno about their launcher but they lost the plot a long time ago with the game(s) COUGH Diablo 3.

amit_talkinReally? You made a launcher for 12 games?

No, for one game, WoW.

Can't have your friends list as a separate smaller window must take up the entire screen to look at it. Amazing how tone-deaf this is.

i reckon the company needs a makeover not the launcher layout.

FrickNo, for one game, WoW.

TIL nobody plays Overwatch anymore.

ExcuseMeWtfTIL nobody plays Overwatch anymore.

The question was "You made a launcher for 12 games?", at the time the launcher launched (lol) there was only WoW, so yes, it was made just for WoW. Now I'd argue both OW and CoD are the main attractions; Warzone has more players right now than WoW does.

amit_talkinReally? You made a launcher for 12 games?

They already had one when they had just 5 :D

Or even one as kayjay correctly points out, for WoW. It did actually evolve out of that one.

Hyderzi reckon the company needs a makeover not the launcher layout.

The makeover was completed when somebody yelled we all have a phone. Let's be real. Diablo 4 is the last hope for anything with substance, but honestly, if you look at D3, you have to wonder if that's not just wishful thinking as well. The talent has gone to greener pastures, or its still in there somewhere but doesn't get a chance to do something useful. And we saw a teaser and some footage, but I question how real it actually is. Since then it was silence.

Blizzard now floats on seasonal releases/passes and infinitely chewing on what they already have to spit it out at us in yet another game update. If they make something new, its zero depth, easy competitive bullshit. Even Starcraft 2 was thrown off the bus, pretty much. The last expansion, yeah, it got released, but did anyone really care? I pretty much missed it... just didn't care. And I really am an RTS/strategy fan playing the franchise since it started... WoW... for all the game it is, is really just a glorified seasonal update too with its expansions, everything is an overhaul now but in reality you're still mashing the same buttons you did ten years ago, and on a tightly organized tierbased treadmill too. You could ask how open the world really is, after all 95% isn't actively used anymore.

Nah, I think we have to get past believing this will get better again.

Vayra86They already had one when they had just 5 :D

Or even one as kayjay correctly points out, for WoW. It did actually evolve out of that one.


The makeover was completed when somebody yelled we all have a phone. Let's be real. Diablo 4 is the last hope for anything with substance, but honestly, if you look at D3, you have to wonder if that's not just wishful thinking as well. The talent has gone to greener pastures, or its still in there somewhere but doesn't get a chance to do something useful. And we saw a teaser and some footage, but I question how real it actually is. Since then it was silence.

Blizzard now floats on seasonal releases/passes and infinitely chewing on what they already have to spit it out at us in yet another game update. If they make something new, its zero depth, easy competitive bullshit. Even Starcraft 2 was thrown off the bus, pretty much. The last expansion, yeah, it got released, but did anyone really care? I pretty much missed it... just didn't care. And I really am an RTS/strategy fan playing the franchise since it started... WoW... for all the game it is, is really just a glorified seasonal update too with its expansions, everything is an overhaul now but in reality you're still mashing the same buttons you did ten years ago, and on a tightly organized tierbased treadmill too. You could ask how open the world really is, after all 95% isn't actively used anymore.

Nah, I think we have to get past believing this will get better again.

You can read about D4's progress in the quartely updates.

Latest one:
news.blizzard.com/en-us/diablo4/23583664/diablo-iv-quarterly-update-december-2020

Personally I don't expect anything special/don't hype myself with the game but I'm sure that I will have my fun with it and it will make my money's worth.
After all I did put around 3000 hours into D3 since the relase day, can't say that for many games. :)

As for the launcher, meh don't really care cause I never really had issues with the current one anyway.
Only play D3 there for 2-3 weeks in each Season, their other games don't interest me. 'Played the full story mode in SC 2 then deleted it'

SithaerYou can read about D4's progress in the quartely updates.

Latest one:
news.blizzard.com/en-us/diablo4/23583664/diablo-iv-quarterly-update-december-2020

Personally I don't expect anything special/don't hype myself with the game but I'm sure that I will have my fun with it and it will make my money's worth.
After all I did put around 3000 hours into D3 since the relase day, can't say that for many games. :)

As for the launcher, meh don't really care cause I never really had issues with the current one anyway.
Only play D3 there for 2-3 weeks in each Season, their other games don't interest me. 'Played the full story mode in SC 2 then deleted it'

Oh.... wow.... so they're just reskinning Diablo 3 and are spending pages long musing about all the stuff it already had. GUI looks the same and the engine looks like it got an update. Weapon attack speed is apparently something to talk about in an ARPG as if its special, alongside the eternal rarities of items we've seen a hundred times and everything else that's.... welll ARPG bread and butter.

What's new here? I really didn't see anything. Except threshold values for main stats to get better skill versions. If I put this next to what Grim Dawn or Path of Exile added to the genre... this is nothing more but another version of D3 with a new set of skill trees.

I totally get why this hasn't been on my radar since that teaser, there simply isn't much to see. Definitely not going to be worth 60... I'm sure it will play like a dream (D3 did, let's face it) and I probably can't resist jumping in either... but I can feel where this game is going.

I had really hoped for a ground-up rework of the formula. D3 showed us that they needed that, it still has trouble avoiding the 'samey' feeling even with all the changes and updates.

Vayra86Oh.... wow.... so they're just reskinning Diablo 3 and are spending pages long musing about all the stuff it already had. GUI looks the same and the engine looks like it got an update. Weapon attack speed is apparently something to talk about in an ARPG as if its special, alongside the eternal rarities of items we've seen a hundred times and everything else that's.... welll ARPG bread and butter.

What's new here? I really didn't see anything. Except threshold values for main stats to get better skill versions. If I put this next to what Grim Dawn or Path of Exile added to the genre... this is nothing more but another version of D3 with a new set of skill trees.

I totally get why this hasn't been on my radar since that teaser, there simply isn't much to see. Definitely not going to be worth 60.

Well imo they don't have to re invent the wheel or anything, just make it a fun ARPG and thats all I want from it.
Unlike some ppl I stoped caring/complaining that D3 is not D2 and just accepted it for what it is. 'this is how I look at gaming in general'

I also think that Grim Dawn has the best systems atm, a good middle ground between D3 and PoE which I just can't get into for various reasons.

So if they keep D4 somewhat simple yet fun then its fine with me, probably it will have more depth than D3 anyway.

Game is in a very early stage too, they already ditched some stuff that was in the first version they showed so who knows what they will end up in the final version.

SithaerWell imo they don't have to re invent the wheel or anything, just make it a fun ARPG and thats all I want from it.
Unlike some ppl I stoped caring/complaining that D3 is not D2 and just accepted it for what it is. 'this is how I look at gaming in general'

I also think that Grim Dawn has the best systems atm, a good middle ground between D3 and PoE which I just can't get into for various reasons.

So if they keep D4 somewhat simple yet fun then its fine with me, probably it will have more depth than D3 anyway.

Game is in a very early stage too, they already ditched some stuff that was in the first version they showed so who knows what they will end up in the final version.

Yeah I feel much the same way, its just that I had HOPED they were going to revive what made Diablo 2 such a magical thing. The problem I had with Diablo 3 - while fun and like you say, that's what it wanted to be, probably - is that nothing felt really cool or special except the execution itself. Not ONCE did an item drop give me that good old tingling feeling. You just knew it was going to be generic shit replaceable by any other yellow with a trifecta roll. And when they finally changed that and axed the RMAH.... legendaries were dropping like candy all of a sudden. As if the whole game had to be centric around a 10-15 minute attention span and gameplay loop (whack, loot, marginal incremental bonus, repeat)

In the same way, the classes and builds... you just clicked random shit together and hope it works, if it doesn't click something else in. There was no suspense of building up a character and watching it hit the wall at some point. You just hit walls all the time, tweaked all the time... and after a while you really didn't have anything that really defined your character or your build. It also added to that 'samey' feeling. And the game also has all those grindy concepts to support that as well: paragon levels to infinity (dafuq) and all those difficulty scaling tiers... It felt so lazy to me.

This post (from katalyst) and its responses really spells it out pretty well: Blizzard will never fix the divide between these groups. A 'ilttle cost' respec... more focus on skill choices... and LESS on itemization. Are they retarded?! This is what D3 essentially also was, except now there is a pay X gold button attached to it. Yay for creativity... A few responses down some guy nails it: He says what I'm saying too: this far into dev and they're still babbling about basics. The whole respec discussion is beside the point really, doing it is just fine. What matters is whether there are choices that define builds and characters and keeps everyone away from that single meta build.

us.forums.blizzard.com/en/d3/t/diablo-iv-quarterly-update-q4-december-2020/25376/10

Not having high hopes.

Vayra86Yeah I feel much the same way, its just that I had HOPED they were going to revive what made Diablo 2 such a magical thing. The problem I had with Diablo 3 - while fun and like you say, that's what it wanted to be, probably - is that nothing felt really cool or special except the execution itself. Not ONCE did an item drop give me that good old tingling feeling. You just knew it was going to be generic shit replaceable by any other yellow with a trifecta roll.

In the same way, the classes and builds... you just clicked random shit together and hope it works, if it doesn't click something else in. There was no suspense of building up a character and watching it hit the wall at some point. You just hit walls all the time, tweaked all the time... and after a while you really didn't have anything that really defined your character or your build. It also added to that 'samey' feeling. And the game also has all those grindy concepts to support that as well: paragon levels to infinity (dafuq) and all those difficulty scaling tiers... It felt so lazy to me.

The game did change since the relase tho, well the core is the same but many things are different for the better.

D2 had the very same meta builds most ppl followed 'hammerdins,trap sins,typical MF sorc,you name it', now its all the same in D3 with Sets and legendaries that support meta builds.
In a way that exist in every ARPG just with more stats and depth but eventually its a similar story.

Paragon wasn't the best idea yea, especially if you are a solo player like me so I can't exactly compete with meta group players even if I wanted to cause Paragon 'main stat' limits me.
In the current season I played for ~65 hours till I finished my build then pushed my char to its limits in Hardcore mode '~Rank 50+ at the time on my class leaderboard' then put the game down, this much I still find fun in the game but I definitely wouldn't have this as my main game to play.

Also I feel that it was almost impossible to re create that feeling D2 had back in the days cause at the time there was no competition so to say.
D2 was the game that got me hooked on the genre 'played it for nearly 7 years' so ofc I have fond memories but its just that, not trying to compare everything to it or something.

Well... I did have the Diablo 2 vibe in Grim Dawn. That game just kept presenting new layers of customization as you went along, much like how D2 always managed to throw a new type of item at your feet that really was worth a longer look. Even just the components for each item... and how you unlock them with level limits and reputation across the difficulties... its brilliant progression/design. Suddenly you can make room for new items that you also start finding and also really need to beat Ultimate, as you gain access to top tier components and upgrades.

Similarly, Path of Exile also managed that but more in a character build type of way than for its loot. Great loot is more scarce... but finding one could prompt a whole new playthrough and build idea. Grim Dawn has that too. Diablo 2 has it. D3 doesn't really... and if it does, it literally tells you 'use this skill because you get MANY% bonus now' - its never really a surprise how that'll work out, its generally 'mash button, get bigger number'.

Fully recreating the Diablo 2 vibe, no. For that I just play Diablo 2. :D Have a portable version even, I can just drop it anywhere and it'll play :)

As for meta builds exisiting in any ARPG... not sure. I think its exclusive to online environments where people feel there is some sort of competitiveness. Seasonal rankings are that, you get speedruns and as a result you get a tighter meta. Again: Grim Dawn has none of it - nor Torchlight, or even Diablo 2 if you play it now or offline. But in D3 it also leaked into the solo game, because you're hitting a wall if you don't because things scale indefinitely. Path of Exile.... it has SOME top builds, but they change spots all the time, they get new variations, and there is lots of room for tweaks.

Besides, any good game developer will want to avoid (or outright kill) such meta because it is not the intended game design. Look at WoW and all the balance patches that got... Blizzard knows a defined meta is bad for the game. But... and here is the kicker: what is bad for the game is not necessarily bad for Blizzard. After all, the recent trend is that everyone wants to be number one, and how else to achieve that other than googling 'top build *insert month* *insert game type*' ? All of Blizzards' games have moved in that direction, with WoW leading the charge from WoTLK onwards. 'Have-nots' at some point were unacceptable to Blizzard, everyone had to feel like a winner because it would increase revenue streams. It also perfectly fits the snowflake world we live in today.

/rant :P

Vayra86Well... I did have the Diablo 2 vibe in Grim Dawn. That game just kept presenting new layers of customization as you went along, much like how D2 always managed to throw a new type of item at your feet that really was worth a longer look. Even just the components for each item... and how you unlock them with level limits and reputation across the difficulties... its brilliant progression/design. Suddenly you can make room for new items that you also start finding and also really need to beat Ultimate, as you gain access to top tier components and upgrades.

Similarly, Path of Exile also managed that but more in a character build type of way than for its loot. Great loot is more scarce... but finding one could prompt a whole new playthrough and build idea. Grim Dawn has that too. Diablo 2 has it. D3 doesn't really... and if it does, it literally tells you 'use this skill because you get MANY% bonus now' - its never really a surprise how that'll work out, its generally 'mash button, get bigger number'.

Fully recreating the Diablo 2 vibe, no. For that I just play Diablo 2. :D Have a portable version even, I can just drop it anywhere and it'll play :)

Supposedly they realized that issue with D3 and won't have it in D4.
I mean the tons of x-y skill multiplier on legendaries/sets which locks you into specific builds, will see how that turns out.

For me the closest of that feeling was Titan Quest, most likely why GD didn't have that effect on me since TQ and GD are identical in many ways. 'same engine duh :D'
D2 I just can't get back into, played it too much back in the days and even played some modded versions.
Also didn't age too well imo.

PoE is not my cup of tea, gave it multiple chances and it simply can't keep me interested but I admit it has some cool ideas/systems.
In general I just don't really have fun while playing that game and thats like meh, why bother then.

My go to ARPG is GD when I feel like playing one thats not D3, also thought about picking up TQ again since I'm yet to play 2 expansions they relased since.

PoE is a real investment before you get anywhere near a build that feels like it could make a dent. Its overwhelming for sure, and until you figure it out, man can it be clunky to play... so I totally get where you're coming from. The curve is steep. And... the progression path is long. Even before having good gear... just levelling, doing three (!) Labyrinth runs, two at pretty serious difficulties to unlock your top skillset that usually amplifies the whole idea you have... yea. That is a far-away carrot to chase.

I've actually only got two characters that have achieved that on Merciless and are 'complete'... yet none has even reached level cap of 100. All stuck somewhere around 85-92.

*so about that launcher... :D We drifted offtopic a bit :P

amit_talkinReally? You made a launcher for 12 games?

It's been a thing for quite a while now. It actually allows you to sign in without needing to type a username and password. It acts as an authenticator.

kayjay010101The question was "You made a launcher for 12 games?", at the time the launcher launched (lol) there was only WoW, so yes, it was made just for WoW. Now I'd argue both OW and CoD are the main attractions; Warzone has more players right now than WoW does.

But games have been added since so yeah, it's 12 games now (if they counted right ofc). And yeah, some of them are pretty popular as well and not everyone using it cares about WoW.

So "for 12 games" is pretty accurate state of present in such case. Not that I see a problem with that.

I'm using this launcher (new design on BETA) since 2 years now may be??

BorisDGI'm using this launcher (new design on BETA) since 2 years now may be??

Ive been using it for the last few months in beta, and honestly, im not sure why they took so long to make it final.

It's not even finished IMO. Some windows still are using the old design.

D@am thing crashes my PC many times. They forcibly install the anti-cheat software on your PC and make the CPU go up to 100% once a while causing it to overheat and BSOD. I hate greedy corporate. Doesn't care about customer's experience.

What are you talking about lol?