Friday, February 26th 2021

Apple Subpoenas Valve for Steam's Data on 346 Games

Apple and Epic Games have had quite a turbulent history of legal issues in the past year. Fortnite, the world's biggest battle royale game, got removed from the Apple store because its developer, Epic Games, had refused to comply to store rules. If a developer is listing a game on the Apple store, all in-game payments must be processed through Apple, with the company taking a 30% tax cut for it. Epic Games didn't like that idea too much, so the company just used an external system that gave players the option to pay for in-game goods using different ways. However, that represented non-compliance to Apple store guidelines, and Apple took the Fortnite game down.


Update February 26th 07:50 UTC: In thecourt hearing on Wednesday, U.S. Magistrate Judge Thomas S. Hixson ordered that Apple's subpoena was considered valid. Valve's lawyers urged the judge to not force the company to produce the requested data, however, Apple's lawyers have said that the request is doable and the company is only requesting data on a few hundred games, and it could have been worse by requesting data on over 30000 games instead.
Epic Games has sued the famous fruit company over this practice, however, another big publisher is being dragged into the fight. Valve, the company behind the popular gaming platform, Steam, has just entered the fight. Apple has requested Valve to hand over information about 346 games and its user statistics, meaning the number of monthly, daily, etc. players and other useful information. This information request was made off the court and Valve has denied providing it. In the second attempt by Apple, the information requested was "very narrow" and Valve did not want to provide any more data. The response from Valve was that the company doesn't sell mobile games and has little business in the mobile world, thus making Apple's request irrelevant.

08:15 UTC: Apparently, in the court Valve stated that "Apple Has Not Shown Substantial Need For The Information It Demands", with the court hearing saying that "First, Apple argues the information it demands is necessary to calculate market size and definition. False. Apple, Google and Samsung compete with each other in the mobile app market. Valve does not compete in that market." The statement alone is noting that as Valve doesn't compete in the mobile market, the company will not enter legal disputes between the two companies and remains neutral. Requesting that much data from Valve would require too much work and Apple hasn't proved that there is any need for it, besides Apple's intentions to see the market size of games. Valve also notes that it is not a public company, and Apple's request for sales and earnings figures are illogical.
Sources: Business Insider, Court Hearing (Valve and Apple)
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61 Comments on Apple Subpoenas Valve for Steam's Data on 346 Games

#51
mechtech
csendesmarkWell, you should stop buying overpriced phones from apple...
I got a 2nd hand iphone 8 for $150 cnd :)
Posted on Reply
#52
bug
RavenasThe fact that the Judge compared them all, does directly compare them all in this case. Which is why Valve has been subpoenaed and the Judge has allowed it.
The judge has mixed specialty with general purpose hardware, but seems to be looking only at games distribution, which is clearly not the scope of the AppStore. The judge has stuff to learn about the lawsuit, otherwise the decision will be on very shaky ground.
Posted on Reply
#53
DeathtoGnomes
bugThe judge has mixed specialty with general purpose hardware, but seems to be looking only at games distribution, which is clearly not the scope of the AppStore. The judge has stuff to learn about the lawsuit, otherwise the decision will be on very shaky ground.
Thats close to grounds for the judge to recuse herself.
Posted on Reply
#54
Ravenas
DeathtoGnomesThats close to grounds for the judge to recuse herself.
The Judge isn't discarding the fact that the platforms/retailers/devices are different in nature. What's being compared is industry wide percent cost take. The case is enormous in size because it has far reaching implications across much of retail America, which aren't just related to Epic's desire for lower costs and direct payments. Epic will ultimately lose this case. The question remains will Epic be able to convince lawmakers to create favorable legislations for them, doubtful but remains to be seen.
Posted on Reply
#55
bencrutz
RavenasThe Judge isn't discarding the fact that the platforms/retailers/devices are different in nature. What's being compared is industry wide percent cost take. The case is enormous in size because it has far reaching implications across much of retail America, which aren't just related to Epic's desire for lower costs and direct payments. Epic will ultimately lose this case. The question remains will Epic be able to convince lawmakers to create favorable legislations for them, doubtful but remains to be seen.
percent cost take is already clear in steam, there is no need to disclose sales data.
Posted on Reply
#56
Lycanwolfen
I really hope Valve just say ok Good bye Apple. This is some of the dark negative of apple I have been saying for years. I wish every 3rd Party would just drop apple and leave them to themselfs. Watch how fast apple would crawl back and say ok have it your way.
Posted on Reply
#57
Valantar
LycanwolfenI really hope Valve just say ok Good bye Apple. This is some of the dark negative of apple I have been saying for years. I wish every 3rd Party would just drop apple and leave them to themselfs. Watch how fast apple would crawl back and say ok have it your way.
Why would Apple care if Valve dropped support for their platforms? They have zero presence on iOS, and while there are of course a lot of people playing games on their Macs, Apple would likely just welcome them all getting their games from the App Store. And there's zero chance we'd ever see a wide-ranging developer boycott of Apple - most app developers are completely reliant on revenues from Apple-owned platforms to survive - paid app sales are much, much higher on iOS than Android, for example - so that would be suicide for them.
Posted on Reply
#58
bug
I wonder if anyone ever catches on to the fact that % based fees are not really justified when selling digital goods. Once you set up the account for one customer, your per-unit cost of each sale is almost nil.
Posted on Reply
#59
spnidel
Prima.Vera30% ?? I wonder who are the biggest thieves...
industry standard, steam and GOG take the same 30%
Posted on Reply
#60
bug
spnidelindustry standard, steam and GOG take the same 30%
Not exactly apples-to-apples. Steam and GOG are optional, AppStore is not and it controls everything you install, not just games.
The lawsuit is initiated by Epic, which sells games, but it's not about games distribution, it's about the practice in general.
Posted on Reply
#61
Sir Alex Ice
That magistrate is a retard, Valve sales have nothing to do with Apple and Epic .
Posted on Reply
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