KananThis news sounds like the ARM deal with Nvidia is still dead in the water. And no I don't trust Nvidia with this, as to keep ARM neutral. They have a long history of proprietary products and software. It's very likely they would abuse ARM for their own if they can buy the company.

Nvidia's entire argument, if you can call it that, si that ARM needs nvidia to remain competitive. They need nvidia's funding and technology to make better products.

The issue here is that Nvidia already has an ARM license. There is nothign stopping them from making kick ass ARM products right now other then their own incompetence. Nvidia could take a fraction of the ARM purchase budget and make an ARM chip that would blow apple's A series out of the water. But they dont.

So why should they be allowed to buy ARM? Well most regulators are askign that same question and coming up empty.

z1n0xLeave it to the dummy politicians on both side of The Channel, to F up something that should have been strategic asset of Europe. Also, how long before ARM employees start leaving en masse?

Why would they? ARM is not a failing company, and ARM is going to continue to paly a major role in the ever growing mobile and IoT world. That'd be like leaving apple after the release of the iphone 4s. Or leaving them now, in fact, when they are the richest company on the planet.

TheinsanegamerNThe issue here is that Nvidia already has an ARM license. There is nothign stopping them from making kick ass ARM products right now other then their own incompetence. Nvidia could take a fraction of the ARM purchase budget and make an ARM chip that would blow apple's A series out of the water. But they dont.

So why should they be allowed to buy ARM? Well most regulators are askign that same question and coming up empty.

Exactly. I'm just waiting for the official confirmation, but it's a 90% thing right now if I were to guess.

TheinsanegamerNNvidia's entire argument, if you can call it that, si that ARM needs nvidia to remain competitive. They need nvidia's funding and technology to make better products.

And these are only political lies, by the way. Yea not really a argument at all.

TheinsanegamerNWhy would they? ARM is not a failing company, and ARM is going to continue to paly a major role in the ever growing mobile and IoT world. That'd be like leaving apple after the release of the iphone 4s. Or leaving them now, in fact, when they are the richest company on the planet.

Ok, leaving en masse is a stretch, but key architects/engineers been poached?

z1n0xbut key architects/engineers been poached?

source?

Kanansource?

It is a question on my part. With Nvidia's deal been off, how long before they take on more lucrative job offerings? I read Nvidia will be establishing new CPU R&D center.

z1n0xIt is a question on my part. With Nvidia's deal been off, how long before they take on more lucrative job offerings? I read Nvidia will be establishing new CPU R&D center.

As far as I know, ARM is in good shape, the mess is Softbank & Nvidia, not ARM itself. The company is well working.

KananAs far as I know, ARM is in good shape, the mess is Softbank & Nvidia, not ARM itself. The company is well working.

I hope you're right.

z1n0xIt is a question on my part. With Nvidia's deal been off, how long before they take on more lucrative job offerings? I read Nvidia will be establishing new CPU R&D center.

Read my original response. Again, ARM is doing well, they are very competitive and have a huge market presence. Nvidia wants ARM, ARM does not need invidia. So why would people be leaving?

TheLostSwedeArm in the UK, partially due to some claimed national security concerns that apparently weren't present five years ago when the company was sold to SoftBank.

This is because ARM SOCs have been developed for government and military use since that time and the UK government naturally wants to keep those things at home.

FluffmeisterARM should stay in the UK

This is correct.

TheLostSwedeI don't think you understand the implications of Arm being sold to Nvidia if you really think they should be allowed to buy them.

It would literally give Nvidia a strong arm position to be a patent troll.

As for the OP, it's a bit vague. I had to Google the headlines to find two MP's (UK has 650) that have mentioned this (one of whom has their constituency in Cambridge). This isn't the same as the UK Gov asking for this. It's the same as any random MP asking for any random thing. There's no act of parliament, no petition - just a voice in the crowd. In other words, it's a bit baity.

the54thvoidAs for the OP, it's a bit vague. I had to Google the headlines to find two MP's (UK has 650) that have mentioned this (one of whom has their constituency in Cambridge). This isn't the same as the UK Gov asking for this. It's the same as any random MP asking for any random thing. There's no act of parliament, no petition - just a voice in the crowd. In other words, it's a bit baity.

While true, where there are a few voices speaking out, there are undoubtedly more who agree and have not publicly spoken. I firmly agree with idea that ARM should stay grounded in England/UK.

lexluthermiesterWhile true, where there is a few voices speaking out, there are undoubtedly more who agree and have not publicly spoken. I firmly agree with idea that ARM should stay grounded in the UK.

It's not news or secret knowledge that nobody wants this deal aside from Nvidia and a few of their closest partners.

KananIt's not news or secret knowledge that nobody wants this deal aside from Nvidia and a few of their closest partners.

Also a good point.

dj-electricI've seen bad takes here and there, but a take that saying its fine for the control-freak NVIDIA to own a hyper compettitive and innovative market such as the ARM based developer market is a really bad one.
A market to which NVIDIA's biggest competitors develop to, too, not being able to do so anymore as a result of a terrifying global monopoly over such thing.

Yeah, good time to rethink and study on why there is such a unanimous and strong voice against this supernova scale ownership.

ARM is not hyper competitive, they are now 3 years behind Apple with their stock designs. Nobody is freaked about AMD not owning the ISA for x86, or there not being an original company to control. Literally everything that is happening is fear, just an assumption that somehow things will be worse. The only issue with x86 is that more people can't get rights to the ISA and that isn't a problem with ARM now or in a hypothetical future with nVidia as the owner. They can make iron clad legal guarantees to that affect.

I see a lot of hypothetical "this will cause damage" with no-one actually suggesting any hypothetical specifics.

TheinsanegamerNNvidia's entire argument, if you can call it that, si that ARM needs nvidia to remain competitive. They need nvidia's funding and technology to make better products.

The issue here is that Nvidia already has an ARM license. There is nothign stopping them from making kick ass ARM products right now other then their own incompetence. Nvidia could take a fraction of the ARM purchase budget and make an ARM chip that would blow apple's A series out of the water. But they dont.

So why should they be allowed to buy ARM? Well most regulators are askign that same question and coming up empty.


Why would they? ARM is not a failing company, and ARM is going to continue to paly a major role in the ever growing mobile and IoT world. That'd be like leaving apple after the release of the iphone 4s. Or leaving them now, in fact, when they are the richest company on the planet.

nVidia will not spend the 10 billion dollars required to make an Apple beating ARM chip if they cannot monetize it. That would require selling it to many many different people like ARM's stock designs, you can't design a chip and then not have a market to sell it in. They want to integrate the nVidia GPU IP as a standard ARM IP and they can't do that and make money from it as it currently stands competing against all the other ARM designs. Yes nVidia buying ARM will affect the quality (and PRICE) of ARM's own designs, but it won't affect Apple or anyone else with access to the ARM ISA.

I just find the whole populist "no company should merge with another company" nonsense to be absurd. The synergy between nVidia and ARM is obvious. We need another large CPU player besides AMD and Intel. NVidia HAS ALREADY TRIED multiple times and failed to make any money following the approaches people want here. "Just build it and it will sell" is not a solid business plan. Enhancing the stock ARM designs with nVidia IP and making them a new standard is.

GarrusThe only issue with x86 is that more people can't get rights to the ISA and that isn't a problem with ARM now or in a hypothetical future with nVidia as the owner. They can make iron clad legal guarantees to that affect.

This is highly naive. It's extremely likely Nvidia will abuse the situation to make ARM more x86-like. Or raise prices a lot through the board. In any way, it has a reason why so many (big) companies are against it. Reducing this to "fear mongering" is just short sighted.

GarrusI just find the whole populist "no company should merge with another company" nonsense to be absurd. The synergy between nVidia and ARM is obvious. We need another large CPU player besides AMD and Intel. NVidia HAS ALREADY TRIED multiple times and failed to make any money following the approaches people want here. "Just build it and it will sell" is not a solid business plan. Enhancing the stock ARM designs with nVidia IP and making them a new standard is.

Why is it populist though? It's my 100% own opinion. The opinions of companies came in later and practically agreed with me. If Nvidia wants CPUs so badly, they can use RISC V anytime. What's the hold up?

You guys need to remind yourselves that politicians are old farts who can barely use their phones, let alone understand what those "processory" thingies are. They only care about profit and control, and the fact they used the "national security" card should give you a pause for thought. To me, the thought of "forcing built-in provisions for government mandated backdoors" pops to mind. UK government has a long history of trying to strip any semblance of privacy from their citizens. Back when I lived there, they really wanted to make any form of cryptography illegal - they actually used SSH as an example of "potentially dangerous encryption scheme", which is just stupidity on several levels and shows their ignorance fairly well.
I'm not saying that ARM falling into American hands would be any better, those guys are even more corrupt, it it's at all possible. Well, there's China but let's not get into this kind of communist shithole. Just saying, ARM getting into spotlights might be a bad thing for everyone in the end. Now old farts know it exists and will try to use it to their advantage.

z1n0xIt is a question on my part. With Nvidia's deal been off, how long before they take on more lucrative job offerings? I read Nvidia will be establishing new CPU R&D center.

Problem being? The designs continue to evolve with or without arm (example being Apple that already turned the standard arm cores inside out with their own designs). Anyone can continue to license and customise the cores and the ISA like they did before, whatever development capacity remains with ARM doesn't matter.

If they slow to a halt other competitors are there to pick up the slack, like Risc V for example. The issue here is having that change forced through anti-competitive behaviours from Nvidia or having it happen naturally and gradually as technology iterates and evolves.

GarrusARM is not hyper competitive, they are now 3 years behind Apple with their stock designs. Nobody is freaked about AMD not owning the ISA for x86, or there not being an original company to control. Literally everything that is happening is fear, just an assumption that somehow things will be worse. The only issue with x86 is that more people can't get rights to the ISA and that isn't a problem with ARM now or in a hypothetical future with nVidia as the owner. They can make iron clad legal guarantees to that affect.

I see a lot of hypothetical "this will cause damage" with no-one actually suggesting any hypothetical specifics.

nVidia will not spend the 10 billion dollars required to make an Apple beating ARM chip if they cannot monetize it. That would require selling it to many many different people like ARM's stock designs, you can't design a chip and then not have a market to sell it in. They want to integrate the nVidia GPU IP as a standard ARM IP and they can't do that and make money from it as it currently stands competing against all the other ARM designs. Yes nVidia buying ARM will affect the quality (and PRICE) of ARM's own designs, but it won't affect Apple or anyone else with access to the ARM ISA.

I just find the whole populist "no company should merge with another company" nonsense to be absurd. The synergy between nVidia and ARM is obvious. We need another large CPU player besides AMD and Intel. NVidia HAS ALREADY TRIED multiple times and failed to make any money following the approaches people want here. "Just build it and it will sell" is not a solid business plan. Enhancing the stock ARM designs with nVidia IP and making them a new standard is.

I don't know if you're just naive or trolling for nvidia. Locking people out and segmenting the market has been nvidia's entire shtick. The question is simple and has been posed many times: what can't nvidia do without owning arm that it would be able to after acquisition?

A: controlling access to arm licenses. That's the only answer.

They can produce a competitve core and soc if they want, apple did, nvidia also did in the past (see tegra k1/x1/etc and nintendo switch (custom tegra x1) as examples), as does qualcomm and samsung, and google now with tensor, among many others with more or less customization of the standard core designs - like from super custom like Apple for barely any changes like Unisoc or NXP etc etc etc.

They can make use of all the synergies they want without owning arm and compete in their own merits. Everyone else has. If they can't it's because they're incompetent, and that shouldn't be rewarded with a dominant anticompetitive position on a silver platter.

TheUn4seenYou guys need to remind yourselves that politicians are old farts who can barely use their phones, let alone understand what those "processory" thingies are. They only care about profit and control, and the fact they used the "national security" card should give you a pause for thought. To me, the thought of "forcing built-in provisions for government mandated backdoors" pops to mind. UK government has a long history of trying to strip any semblance of privacy from their citizens. Back when I lived there, they really wanted to make any form of cryptography illegal - they actually used SSH as an example of "potentially dangerous encryption scheme", which is just stupidity on several levels and shows their ignorance fairly well.
I'm not saying that ARM falling into American hands would be any better, those guys are even more corrupt, it it's at all possible. Well, there's China but let's not get into this kind of communist shithole. Just saying, ARM getting into spotlights might be a bad thing for everyone in the end. Now old farts know it exists and will try to use it to their advantage.

That's an odd tangent, don't know what that has to do with Nvidia purchasing arm. If anything having control centralized with Nvidia and on the US would pose a much greater risk in terms of hardware backed spyware than having arm split across adversary nations. Not that that's a safeguard either, imo we're fucked either way.

And regarding encryption, it's the same old argument everywhere - "think of the children" - this bullshit has been tried everywhere and until now hasn't (at least completely) succeded. Let's pray for the future when eventually it does (we're fucked basically)

KananYou should add, that the UK didn't care at the beginning and let control over the company slide in the first place.

I thought about that, but I think they likely were not aware of the implications until someone grandson told them what is happening.

SteevoIt would literally give Nvidia a strong arm position to be a patent troll.

Patent Trolling is beneath Nvidia, they look for more blatant, big dollar opportunities. Their team of lawyers likely costs $1m just to get them into court.

trsttteThat's an odd tangent, don't know what that has to do with Nvidia purchasing arm. If anything having control centralized with Nvidia and on the US would pose a much greater risk in terms of hardware backed spyware than having arm split across adversary nations. Not that that's a safeguard either, imo we're fucked either way.

And regarding encryption, it's the same old argument everywhere - "think of the children" - this bullshit has been tried everywhere and until now hasn't (at least completely) succeded. Let's pray for the future when eventually it does (we're fucked basically)

It has to do with the reason behind UK officials suddenly stepping up their resistance to this deal. Methinks someone told them that those computery things could be used to further their obsession with controlling the society and they jumped all over this opportunity. Remember, those guys don't understand words like "hardware" or "software", neither do they care about their meaning. They do, however, understand "control" or "influence" and want all of it. They want to be ones deciding what spyware gets sent where, not those filthy Americans.

TheUn4seenThey want to be ones deciding what spyware gets sent where, not those filthy Americans.

Could we have done with the nationality based insults?

TheUn4seenIt has to do with the reason behind UK officials suddenly stepping up their resistance to this deal. Methinks someone told them that those computery things could be used to further their obsession with controlling the society and they jumped all over this opportunity. Remember, those guys don't understand words like "hardware" or "software", neither do they care about their meaning. They do, however, understand "control" or "influence" and want all of it. They want to be ones deciding what spyware gets sent where, not those filthy Americans.

What?! The "national security" thing was likely simply the first and easiest thing to put the process of objecting the deal rolling. The ownership being american or british is irrelevant, they're both part of the same five eyes any way.

What's relevant is that the Arm is one of the few remaining british tech companies and the uk market is becoming less and less atractive for tech businesses. The politicians don't understand much about the chips, but they do know the numbers like tech and higher education jobs and economic development.

not those filthy Americans

And quit it with the nationalist rethoric or similar insults

TheLostSwedeYes, but the UK government agreed that Japanese SoftBank could buy Arm five years ago, but it seems like the current situation has changed their mind and they want it to be a UK business again. You would've thought that they were concerned about national security back then as well though, but hey, who knows what goes through the head of politicians.

Was there a chip shortage five years ago and was the supply chain messed up due to a virus five years ago?

Okay - I've deleted a full page of far-from-topic political shit-slinging. Please stick to the ARM topic, if there's actually anything to say at all.

the54thvoidAs for the OP, it's a bit vague. I had to Google the headlines to find two MP's (UK has 650) that have mentioned this (one of whom has their constituency in Cambridge). This isn't the same as the UK Gov asking for this. It's the same as any random MP asking for any random thing. There's no act of parliament, no petition - just a voice in the crowd. In other words, it's a bit baity.

There's a link to the source below the article.
Once again, the source links don't work in the forum.
Please complain to the management if this is not to your liking, as I can't do anything about it.

Why_MeWas there a chip shortage five years ago and was the supply chain messed up due to a virus five years ago?

Arm doesn't make chips.