Bomby569You clearly never lived in a dictatorship. Go to the revolution store and buy some i assume.

You clearly have no idea what the word "Revolution" means nor have any idea of it's historical context. Good luck with that. The Russian people need to put Putin to an end and take back their nation. For far too long the Russian people have been trampled under foot. They are getting tired of it and so is everyone else.

Destroy all the politicians and peace will reign on earth!

lexluthermiesterYou clearly have no idea what the word "Revolution" means nor have any idea of it's historical context. Good luck with that. The Russian people need to put Putin to an end and take back their nation. For far too long the Russian people have been trampled under foot. They are getting tired of it and so is everyone else.

I ask you the same thing, you're an average Russian, now start that Revolution, please make your plan so we can share it with the Russian people.

Exactly because they've been under so long (you could say russians actually never knew anything else, from the czars, to communism to putinism) it's not an easy thing to do. Just like in NK, Cuba, etc...

Go do Revolutian, it's like me saying to the Americans stop being stupid with the guns or no healthcare. No go do Revolution Americans.

mamaRevolution.

Hi,
Probably have to cut phub access to get people attention :laugh:

Bomby569I ask you the same thing, you're an average Russian, now start that Revolution, please make your plan so we can share it with the Russian people.

Exactly because they've been under so long (you could say russians actually never knew anything else, from the czars, to communism to putinism) it's not an easy thing to do. Just like in NK, Cuba, etc...

Go do Revolutian, it's like me saying to the Americans stop being stupid with the guns or no healthcare. No go do Revolution Americans.

Quit being so pedantic. Contribute to the discussion on TOPIC or push off.

With the removal of all western social media sites, pornhub and now video games, we should expect Russians to become some of the healthiest and most productive people on earth.

Bomby569Go do Revolutian, it's like me saying to the Americans stop being stupid with the guns or no healthcare. No go do Revolution Americans.

Getting off topic, but the US "gun problem" is covered very dishonestly and blown way out of proportion by our media. Most gun-related deaths are suicides, and the majority of the rest are gang-related and done by a certain demographic that the mass media will never bring to light. When you factor those 2 out, our "gun violence" is pretty on par with most other western nations.

Daisho11With the removal of all western social media sites, pornhub and now video games, we should expect Russians to become some of the healthiest and most productive people on earth.

There might be a grain of truth to that.

mamaRevolution.

Easy to say when you're not the one who's going to bear the cost (economic, life, or just plain ol' stability) of it. Velvet revolutions are distant history, but Arab spring(s) are a much nearer one (and the costs speak for themselves). And then you have the poor sods -who arguably had it less severely but still an overall negative or zero-net outcomes- in Hong Kong, Catalonia, etc etc.

Revolutions are not cheap, and many cases its costs far outweigh those of sanctions.
If the argument for sanctions is to push civilians to revolt, then the argument for sanctions is to give civilians and ultimatum: suicide and blood sacrifice, or die slowly and/or out of our sights.

lexluthermiesterThe Russian people need to put Putin to an end and take back their nation. For far too long the Russian people have been trampled under foot.

100%

lexluthermiesterThey are getting tired of it and so is everyone else.

While the latter is true it's very hard to gauge the former. Putin did bring "better" prosperity to the people more so before his reign of terror. Remember the Russian economy was basically collapsing under Yeltsin as he was extremely corrupt and their industry was way behind the west thanks to the soviet regime. You also have to remember that western democratic values are as foreign to them as autocratic values are to us. Putin has also jailed, killed, and kicked out many of the leaders who would start a so called revolution so the people are more tame and accepting of him than we think (not to say given the chance they would get rid of him).

Putin's biggest fear is not NATO encroachment, he has a ton of Nuclear missiles to prevent a military invasion. Putin's biggest fear is an uprising like the Arab Spring where the people take over government installations and he only has a few die hard soldiers to put down the resurrection. At that point, NATO troops can come across the border to help defend the people and Putin ends up getting "Gaddafied" by his people.

arduumDestroy all the politicians and peace will reign on earth!

I always believed politicians should be drafted like Jury duty. You get a letter in the mail saying you have been selected to be a congress member. You try to get out of it as best you can, you go and hope you don't get picked, and if you are picked you try to be as fair as you can and wait for it to be over with.

Bomby569For as much as Americans and people that blindly worship them don't want to admit, the US should have been sanctioned and isn't much better. The insanely long list of coups in other countries is a disgrace for their story, including Iran, that disaster of all disasters.

No one should worship a government or country. Once you go down this path (see trump supporters) you stop questioning your government and demanding answers.

Bomby569But the invasion of Iraq isn't much better then this. Or the drone strikes scandal, the leaks from the whistleblower Daniel Hale when you bombed inocent civiliants, you knew you were bombing inocent civilians and coudn't care less to get some dude that may or may not be there, may or may not have done something. Those are war crimes.

There is a major difference between Ukraine and Iraq. Zelenskyy is a democratically elected official with no history of terrorizing and killing people under his regime. Zelenskyy sons are not maniacs who enjoy torturing and killing their own people. Zelenskyy is not stealing natural resources and wealth from his people in order to make himself richer. Zelenskyy did not start a war with his neighbors, invade them or use chemical warfare on them...or his own people. Saddam Hussein could say none of those things. I'm not defending the invasion of Iraq but it was more certainly a "better" or at the very least the way way lesser of two evil thing in terms of human rights.

As for the drone strike scandal, it is a clear example of Eisenhower's warning "we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist." Yes the drones serve a purpose in taking about some nasty terrorists and their associates. The taking of civilian life or adding targets simply to keep the operation going is inexcusable.

Bomby569Russia is as bad as they came, but so is the US. They aren't much different in fact.

We are completely different in one aspect and yes the US is definitely guilty of its hubris in regime change, you brought up Iran (although the British also helped in that one) earlier as one clear example in many screw ups. When anything bad happens in the world, people look to the USA to intervene. Kuwait is invaded, the USA needs to step up. A tsunami happened, the USA needs to send relief. there is an old dutch saying that basically translates to "tall trees take on the worst wind" and the USA is the tallest tree and takes on all wind. Putin could care less about NATO if the USA is not in it. If Iraq invades Kuwait, Putin is not coming to the rescue. In fact he will sell arms to both parties and hope they kill each other quicker. Putin is not sending aid to a country that is devasted by an earhtquake or other natural disaster. Think Putin would send food to Ethiopia? If anything, he would sanction them in hopes more people die.

Bomby569You can trash talk my English, i'm fine with it.

I am assuming English is not your first language so there is no need to apologize for your use of it.

dirtyferretWe are completely different

i would never say you're exactly alike, but the belicist nature is the same, the need to intervene and control other countries is also the same. The reasons sure are as different as they could ever be, but the end result is the same. They both work as a distabilizing source for the rest of the world. There is hardly a country that hans't seen the impact of the "freedom" of the US or Russia, and most of the times the end result is either bad or incredible bad.

I'm a strong defender that countries should sort their own shit out. Wars should always be avoidable, and that seems to be the prefered way for the US and Russia to deal with any problem.

I also know better then to mix Russia with Russian people or the US gov and the US people. Even if they do have the excuse of being under dictators for so long, you guys keep choosing this path.

Bomby569the need to intervene and control other countries is also the same. The reasons sure are as different as they could ever be, but the end result is the same.

I would say the reasons are the same "the need to intervene and control" while the end results can often be the same but I would say you stand a better chance for freedom and human right with the USA (although we hardly have a perfect record)

Bomby569They both work as a distabilizing source for the rest of the world.

Mostly Russia and while the US is also guilty it does a better job of stabilizing countries but once again hardly perfect.

Bomby569There is hardly a country that hans't seen the impact of the "freedom" of the US or Russia, and most of the times the end result is either bad or incredible bad.

I agree this happens too often with the USA and virtually every time with Russia.

Bomby569I'm a strong defender that countries should sort their own shit out.

I'm not. If your neighbors house is on fire it's best to help them out. First , it's the neighborly thing to do and second, your house can go up in flames next as the fire spreads. Some "shit", countries should sort out themselves. Other "shit" that takes a toll on human life, we (we as in the civilized world not just the USA) need to step up when we can.

Bomby569Wars should always be avoidable, and that seems to be the prefered way for the US and Russia to deal with any problem.

Actually the preferred way by both governments is to arm the enemies of your enemy and let them "sort their shit out" on the civilian population.

dirtyferretI would say the reasons are the same "the need to intervene and control" while the end results can often be the same but I would say you stand a better chance for freedom and human right with the USA (although we hardly have a perfect record)

Mostly Russia and while the US is also guilty it does a better job of stabilizing countries but once again hardly perfect.

I agree this happens too often with the USA and virtually every time with Russia.

I'm not. If your neighbors house is on fire it's best to help them out. First , it's the neighborly thing to do and second, your house can go up in flames next as the fire spreads. Some "shit", countries should sort out themselves. Other "shit" that takes a toll on human life, we (we as in the civilized world not just the USA) need to step up when we can.

Actually the preferred way by both governments is to arm the enemies of your enemy and let them "sort their shit out" on the civilian population.

The Russian system of the cold war was a disaster for themselves it would hardly do any better in countries with less resources. It was kind of a inevitability. But sure you have something better to give. Especially a system that doesn't require dictatorship to work. But so many other countries do capitalism and freedom without trying to free others by force, i guess they do good by example. The Nordic countries are the example for about almost anything, not the US anymore.

My country was a dictatorship for 50 years, we ended it without no blood and no help. I think it was our mistake to fix. If someone interveneed probably would be a mess, as after the revolution people were people trying to get it back, others wanted one direction and other some other direction. With some foreign power it would probably end in a civil war like often does.

Ukraine was a mess, but no one should intervene, they were actually trying to improve.

And you got to admit that most often when the US decides do "help" is for their own benefit, oil, a canal, some ally, bananas, idk you sure are versatile. We all know that if Ukraine had oil you guys would have soldiers on the ground by now, or drones or missiles or whatever taste of freedom you are giving away this time.

Bomby569The Nordic countries are the example for about almost anything, not the US anymore.

Yes the Nordic countries are a clear example of modern democracy but they also lack the scope and size of the USA, its melting pot of a population, and the Nordics have a stronger belief in centralized government that looks out for the people. Sometimes being a smaller country helps.

Bomby569My country was a dictatorship for 50 years, we ended it without no blood and no help. I think it was our mistake to fix. If someone interveneed probably would be a mess, as after the revolution people were people trying to get it back, others wanted one direction and other some other direction. With some foreign power it would probably end in a civil war like often does.

Good for you guys and yes most likely a civil war with foreign intervention.

Bomby569We all know that if Ukraine had oil you guys would have soldiers on the ground by now, or drones or missiles or whatever taste of freedom you are giving away this time.

James Baker was a chief of staff and secretary of various offices including State under president Ford, Reagan (two terms) and George Bush senior. He said every administration would come in with a list of things they would and would not go to war on. Protecting the price of oil (USA oil is mostly domestic and the majority of imports come from Canada & Venezuela ) was always on the go to war list. That being said, I think you would see something similar to Afghanistan 1979 to 1989 where the USA trains and uses various other channels to arm the reberls as opposed to direct conflict.

Bomby569Ukraine was a mess, but no one should intervene, they were actually trying to improve.

From your fingers to Putin's eyes. Let us not forget who started this conflict and why.

ShihabyoooEasy to say when you're not the one who's going to bear the cost (economic, life, or just plain ol' stability) of it. Velvet revolutions are distant history, but Arab spring(s) are a much nearer one (and the costs speak for themselves). And then you have the poor sods -who arguably had it less severely but still an overall negative or zero-net outcomes- in Hong Kong, Catalonia, etc etc.

Revolutions are not cheap, and many cases its costs far outweigh those of sanctions.
If the argument for sanctions is to push civilians to revolt, then the argument for sanctions is to give civilians and ultimatum: suicide and blood sacrifice, or die slowly and/or out of our sights.

Revolution is required where repression provides no other alternative and human dignity is ignored by those wielding a gun. Revolution can be the birth of a better society.

dirtyferretFrom your fingers to Putin's eyes. Let us not forget who started this conflict and why.

A crazy madman. But the problem is not how or who started, the problem is how are we going to fix this mess. Apart from someone killing Putin, a dictator can never show weakness, if he ever does it's the end of him. Especially one that has already crossed so many red lines. He can't go back, he can't give an inch, it's not even a choice, it's survival now.

Unless anything else has changed within the past 24 hrs, World of Tanks still seems to be selling digital products. Wargaming is headquartered in Belarus & their transactions are handled in Cyprus.

dirtyferretWhile the latter is true it's very hard to gauge the former.

I have friends and family in Russia. We talk frequently. They're tired of it and are very vocal about it.

I hope the world goes this insane when China takes Taiwan....

boidsonlyI hope the world goes this insane when China takes Taiwan....

China would not be that stupid. As close to world war 3 as we are currently, China invading Taiwan would start it over night and they would lose.

darksfSerbia ?? You mean Yugoslavia that was mass murdering civilians and doing ethnic cleansing??? For 6 months of bombing over Belgrad 23 civilians lost their lives 16 of them in the government TV Tower , the person who did not informed intentionally the personel there to evacuate Dragoljub Milanovic was later senteced to 10 years in prison by the Serbs!!! The Russians killed twise that much only this morning in Kharkiv by intentionally targeting civilian areas with high power unguided FAB500 bombs and cluster bombs and rockets from their rocket artilerry and you won't see much of it on any TV sisnce it is too grim to show. Use Twitter and Telegram if you don't believe and use your brain to filter both Ukrainian and Russian propaganda and you will see the ukrainians don't need much of a propaganda since they are just being poundered by this old crazy dictator.

Yugoslavia if that makes your day although it has no importance whatsoever in regards to this debate . For your information official number of civil deaths caused by operation Allied Forces are around 500+ ... not 20s , unofficial numbers are probably much higher due to uranium contamination caused by the employment of DU munitions , yes let's not put this war crime under the carpet .

Mind you I know full well the slaughters Yugoslavian army is responsible for all over the Balkans , im not supporting it in any way shape or form , however that is not a reson to be blind to civilians casualties caused by American ''democracy'' is it now ? Furthermore it is interesting that you have nothing to say about Irak and the rest ... i guess civilian lifes in these countries don't matter to you ... or is it because their blood is on American hands ?

With this in mind let's procceed to debunk another blatant lie , '' Russian armed forces intentionally targeting civilian areas '' . This is such a vulgar lie that even common sense can debunk . Let's start with the 101 of common sense , IF Russian armed forces wanted to bombard civil areas they could and would transform entire Ukrainian cities into graveyards in a hartbeat , this is absolutely not what it is happening and couldn't be any further from the truth . From the beginning of the war and up to this date Russian armed forces have used guided munitions and have targeted only military positions outside of urban areas . This is attested by the fact that you Ukraine military personel in cities like Kiev on major avenues unharmed and untargeted , this is only done to spare civilian casualties . Another fact attesting this is peoples ( which are no longer civilians since armed ) attacking Russian military convoys from point blank range with Molotov without any retaliation from Russian forces , had that happened in Irak those poor soul wouln't even be able to approach American military convoys from 100m before being blown into smitherins let alone for getting in range to drop a Molotov .

Am i saying there are not civilians hurt by Russian operations ? Of course not , unfortunately there is not such a thing as a clean war , but civilian casualties in Ukraine have been exceptionally low and the credit goes to Russian armed forces . Vast majority of them are caused either by rogue Ukrainian groups ( prisoners , neo-nazis and what not ) armed by their President , shooting left and right on whoever they might think is a saboteur ( dozens of videos attesting Ukrainian militias shooting on civilian cars ) or Ukraine armed forces straight up parking and using military equippment ( anti-air , artillery , ifvs , tanks etc ) just next to densly populated areas , again documented by countless photo and video evidence . Let's not mention Azov members clearly seen in videos lying and preventing peoples from evacuating to humanitary corridors . Fact is vast majority of the civilian casualties in Ukraine are cause by Ukraine armed forces using their population as meat shield !


Im using both Twitter and Telegram , both platforms have become a huge propaganda battlefield . If it needs to be reminded Ukrainian authorities are the one preading the most propaganda ( Ukraine MOD posting videogame footage as combat footage among hundreds of other fakes ) , they are outdoing their Russian analogues by light years , infact i have yet to see a blatant fake coming from Russian authorities and this has been a real surprise for the competent international community because they were expecting Russia to be much more involved into the propaganda war which so far they aren't at all ( maybe they are more focused on winning the real one ) . So yes you might be using those platfroms but that doesn't mean you are less prone to disinformation , you have to double if not triple check for yourslef ( assuming you are impartial ) before jumping into any conclusion .

darksfYou might soon complain why the world did not stand up to protect Hitler when the US started bombing him. Go away with your basic marxist anti west propaganda.

For you information before WW2 , before even the Nazi party took leadership in Germany (although after aswell ) Nazi parti did receive massive founding both material and monetary from no other than Henry Ford , Americas biggest industrial , let that sink in for a moment ! Reminiscent of CIA sponsoring Jihadi groups back in the first Afghan war right ... right ... So please keep the 4D mental gymnastics for youself , we all know who stood up to protect Hitler and his ideology and who still does stand up to this day :



If there is anyone that needs to go away is you and your vulgar fascist propaganda !

Pssh, they should stay out of politics, next they be supporting having oil from Iran or some thing, o yeah we been there before.

No one cared about Hong Kong why Russia, lets face it all governments are corrupted as hell.

lexluthermiesterI have friends and family in Russia. We talk frequently. They're tired of it and are very vocal about it.

Yeah, something just isn't right with this war in Ukraine. The performance we're seeing of Russia's army in Ukraine leads me to believe that its just a half hearted attempt by Putin to rein in the whole of Ukraine and intimidate the other former satellite countries. Unless there's going to be another "Bolshevik" type of revolution to overthrow Putin, this could drag out for quite some time. I'm not much of a history buff, but I don't recall Russians ever coming together as a whole and actually overthrowing their government. Afaik its always been a small minority of extremists moving in and taking over while the rest of the population just goes along for the ride.

ArumioWatching all these bans from payment systems and stores, I see only one thing - hello, an increase in pirated software

Not like Russia wasn't already infamous for this anyways...

AsRockPssh, they should stay out of politics, next they be supporting having oil from Iran or some thing, o yeah we been there before.

No one cared about Hong Kong why Russia, lets face it all governments are corrupted as hell.

Hong Kong was a treaty transfer, like it or not it was always planned. Comparing it to Ukraine is... not at all comparable.

R-T-BHong Kong was a treaty transfer, like it or not it was always planned. Comparing it to Ukraine is... not at all comparable.

That's what they were comparing? Silly nonsense. Ukraine is in no way like Hong Kong.