I'm living in my own private Idaho.

It goes without saying, stay away from making this a political thing. It's a global thing.

The tech hiring boom of 2021 was clearly too much, with exception of Apple (the only major tech company who didn't hire at insane rates, and similarly... the only tech company who is currently avoiding layoffs).

Ex: Amazon had +65% employee headcount (!!!!) in 2021. These good times weren't going to last forever. Micron, also part of the tech field, got +11% in 2022 and +7% increase in 2021.

This -10% announcement from Micron puts their headcount still well above 2021 levels.

-------

Remember, during this time Micron lost products such as Optane. Despite losing product lines, Micron continued to hire at a high rate. Because... well... everyone else in Tech was doing good. We're just undergoing a natural boom/bust period (well, spurrned by the 2021 COVID19 Zoom meetings / work from home stuff). Now that all that is passing, we consumers don't need to buy quite as many computers as 2021 and its natural for the tech industry to shrink a bit. IMO anyway, but I don't think this is a political question. Its mildly predictable given the economic conditions.

We just aren't going to have as many Zoom meetings, virtual meetings, (etc. etc. etc.) as 2021. Life is opening back up, real life meetings are happening again, we're largely going back to the office. Tech, one of the "COVID19 winners", so to speak, will naturally decline in these conditions.

I’ve been saying this for months on this forum but people still don’t understand. Thanks for a second voice. I’d only add that it wasn’t just because others were doing it, but because demand and profits were up — probably something to do with stimulus checks as much as the need to move most work and socialization online. I know I made some upgrades when I got a pay raise while not having to work.

Bad calculus by management? Absolutely. Unexpected by every economist ever? Certainly not. Every industry but tech was in a downfall — not a coincidence as much as correlative.

I guess I’ll add that all of these people are super employable and will likely land a job at a startup or a more established division in their field, and have probably never applied for or even qualified for unemployment.

"Micron is also said to be cutting executive salaries"

Is that even possible in the corrupt world of late-stage capitalism?

The Layoffs continue. Things going to get real ugly later this year...

Chaitanyasaid stuff...

Both things can be true, the numbers say what the numbers say. At the same time the tech sector is shedding some weight it wrongly accumulated during the pandemic highs, others sectors are hiring more people. Also more startups and businesses are emerging.

He'll probably have to deal with a higher unemployment later on, and there's still a lot of uncertainty on how the economy will shake out with the current high interest rate environment - inflation is falling but not enough because the economy is also not suffering enough, a necessary evil by design to bring inflation down.

A certain level of unemployment is not a bad thing either (and one could say the record lows right now aren't very good), a labour pool needs to exist to draw workers from, to have job rotation and to breed new business ideas.

This is all much more complicated than a simple soundbite of "lowest unemployment ever" and layoffs across the board

I wonder if Micron got it's grubby paws on any of that CHIPS act moolah ?

And if they did, where has it all gone to ?

I suspect, like most of the other benefactors, the majority of it went into the execs bank accounts (cause they're the ones who knew when the "pay cuts" were coming), lear jets, beach houses, expense accounts, etc....

the54thvoidIt goes without saying, stay away from making this a political thing. It's a global thing.

Hi,
It's a lot tougher to drop personnel in the EU than in US though.

mb194dcThe Layoffs continue. Things going to get real ugly later this year...

This is bittersweet, right or wrong, here's what I believe. You can only lay off so many people and keep making a profit, so you have to decide, do you want to be in the profit business, this usually kills the volume. With the lay off's people will be buying less, so your profits will suffer anyway, so at some point you will have to decide to bring your prices down, to compete, because I’m pretty sure the all the tech prices will eventually have to go down, since the market is flooded. If you don’t believe the market is flooded, every day I see Microcenter dropping prices by hundreds of dollars on some things, and have tons of stuff in stock. I believe Microcenter is a good barometer to use in the tech market.

Perfect example.

Hi,
Yep prices are coming down to where they should of been at release.
Doesn't really help since boards and ddr5 memory is still high.

Personally I'm done I have to many EOLakes already :laugh:

ThrashZoneHi,
Doesn't really help since boards and ddr5 memory is still high. :laugh:

Well, with the reduced processor cost, maybe in our own minds, we could just call it a wash. :laugh:

Mr BillWell, with the reduced processor cost, maybe in our own minds, we could just call it a wash. :laugh:

Hi,
Not quite seeing gpu prices are still dumb as hell.
I'd love to keep playing with releases but I won't support these money grubbing companies anymore they act just like scalpers.

this was inevitable even without a crisis, without the money printer it was certain

In a follow up, Micron representatives said the company would try to make the headcount reductions fun for staff by using Duck-Duck-Goose.

RegaeRevaebIn a follow up, Micron representatives said the company would try to make the headcount reductions fun for staff by using Duck-Duck-Goose.

Sure it's more fun, and less accurate, than saying "decimation".

WirkoSure it's more fun, and less accurate, than saying "decimation".

Just a play on the use of "headcount" in the head. All good.

Mr BillThis is bittersweet, right or wrong, here's what I believe. You can only lay off so many people and keep making a profit, so you have to decide, do you want to be in the profit business, this usually kills the volume. With the lay off's people will be buying less, so your profits will suffer anyway, so at some point you will have to decide to bring your prices down, to compete, because I’m pretty sure the all the tech prices will eventually have to go down, since the market is flooded. If you don’t believe the market is flooded, every day I see Microcenter dropping prices by hundreds of dollars on some things, and have tons of stuff in stock. I believe Microcenter is a good barometer to use in the tech market.

Perfect example.

MSRP is $329.99 I think that never was $519.99 This scratched-off price is likely fake, designed to deceive customers about the how "big" is amount of the discount.

Recommended Customer Price $409.00 - $419.00 (from i7-13700k page)

TumbleGeorgeMSRP is $329.99 I think that never was $519.99 This scratched-off price is likely fake, designed to deceive customers about the how "big" is amount of the discount.

Hi,
Yep wouldn't doubt it
I personally haven't kept up with prices seeing I'm not in the market.

TumbleGeorgeMSRP is $329.99 I think that never was $519.99 This scratched-off price is likely fake, designed to deceive customers about the how "big" is amount of the discount.

That could be true, but I'm in Microcenter all the time, so I actually see the prices and take pictures of them to compare for my next visit.

ThrashZoneI personally haven't kept up with prices seeing I'm not in the market.

I keep up with most of the prices. I keep with Microcenter prices, because that where I'm most likely to purchase any upgrade in the future, but right now, I'm pretty content with my rig.

Mr BillThat could be true, but I'm in Microcenter all the time, so I actually see the prices and take pictures of them to compare for my next visit.


I keep up with most of the prices. I keep with Microcenter prices, because that where I'm most likely to purchase any upgrade in the future, but right now, I'm pretty content with my rig.

Hi,
Yep only item I might be interested in is a new laptop but doubt it's going to be a intel system i already have four desktop intel and one very old lappy.
Next is more likely going to be amd.

Tech is a tiny sector making at most 1.5% of the US economy. So far the monthly reports are showing more people being hired than being laid off overall. Unemployment is continuing to hit new lows. That doesn't mean it can't change, but the tech sector is not a good indicator of what is to come. People have been saying that a deep recession is coming any day now for two years. Economy go brrrrrr despite the nay sayers.

The hospitality industry on the other hand is approximately 10% of the US economy. When we see mass layoffs in hospitality, then things are about to get bad quick.

I'm hoping gpu prices come down. I have no reason to believe they will. But maybe somehow tech layoffs - > cheap gpus

NordicI'm hoping gpu prices come down. I have no reason to believe they will. But maybe somehow tech layoffs - > cheap gpus

It's enough for the board of directors and other senior management and also the PR team to work pro-bono and do not eat $$ bonuses half the time and I believe it will be enough to reduce the prices of graphic cards by 70% from the current ones.

NordicTech is a tiny sector making at most 1.5% of the US economy. So far the monthly reports are showing more people being hired than being laid off overall. Unemployment is continuing to hit new lows. That doesn't mean it can't change, but the tech sector is not a good indicator of what is to come. People have been saying that a deep recession is coming any day now for two years. Economy go brrrrrr despite the nay sayers.

The hospitality industry on the other hand is approximately 10% of the US economy. When we see mass layoffs in hospitality, then things are about to get bad quick.

I'm hoping gpu prices come down. I have no reason to believe they will. But maybe somehow tech layoffs - > cheap gpus

We're getting into off-topic territory, but I can definitely feel a recession here in the UK already. Energy prices keep doubling every 6 months or so, food prices have increased by roughly 50% in the last year, and hospitality after covid is something normal people can't seem to afford anymore. You're better off spending your holiday abroad, because even with your flight tickets, it's still cheaper than here. Meanwhile, wages aren't going anywhere. The government is increasing the national minimum wage from April, but many companies only adjust enough so that it's aligned - not above it, just aligned. 10 years ago, a warehouse employee earned anywhere from 20 to 50% above national minimum wage. Now, that gap is around 10%, and from April, it's gonna be 0% at many companies. The yearly incremental pay "rises" (that is 1-3%) aren't really pay rises, just adjustments, as they're not even enough to cover the cost of inflation alone which is around 9% now as far as I know.

So yeah, no recession? Sure, whatever. Maybe if you earn above $50k a year, you really don't feel a thing.

Edit: Layoffs in the tech sector are a clear indication of a recession, as people don't have money to buy the gadgets that they did a year ago. No industry is a separate island.

AusWolfWe're getting into off-topic territory, but I can definitely feel a recession here in the UK already.

Edit: Layoffs in the tech sector are a clear indication of a recession, as people don't have money to buy the gadgets that they did a year ago. No industry is a separate island.

The UK is in a very different place than the US. I was specifically talking about the US if that was not clear. www.bbc.com/news/business-64584295

I am not trying to argue which country is or will be in a recession sooner or later. Like Volcker in the 80's, the way to end inflation is to increase interest rates significantly which has a high chance of causing a recession. My argument is that tech alone is not a good indicator of what is to come.

Tech has a unique reliance on low interest rates and cheap loans. Not too long ago the US was experiencing record low interest rates. When interest rates are low, bonds pay very little. Tech is seen as a reletively safe space to park money as well as high growth. With low interest rates, tech had dramatically increased capital and liquidity.

Now that US interest rates are high and growing, other investments become preferable to tech. Capital is leaving tech with less liquidity. Investors are moving their money away from tech to take advantage of the high interest rates. This is happening shortly after the pandemic where tech saw dramatic growth from so many people working from home. Tech went on a hiring spree to support the increased demand from the pandemic.

The tech sector is in a reletively unique situation causing layoffs. Tech has a tiny amount of 1.5% workers in the US. You are right that no industry is an island. When Micron and all the other tech companies reduce labor, it is far less impactful than a larger industry. Hospitality has 10% of US workers. Hospitality has seen the fastest wage growth for low wage workers. Hospitality so far in 2023 cannot find enough people to hire. Tech alone is not a good indicator. Hospitality is a better one. Hospitity tells a very different story than tech. So no, the tech sector alone is not a clear indication of a recession.