Monday, April 24th 2023
AMD Ryzen 7000X3D Processors Prone to Physical Damage with Voltage-assisted Overclocking, Motherboard Vendors Rush BIOS Updates with Voltage Limiters
AMD Ryzen 7000X3D processors are prone to irreversible physical damage if CPU overclocking is attempted at some of the higher VDDCR voltages (the main power domain for the CPU cores). A Redditor who goes by Speedrookie, attempted to overclock their Ryzen 7 7800X3D, leading to an irreversible failure. The motherboard socket and the processor's land-grid contacts, show signs of overheating damage caused by the contacts melting from too much current draw.
A Ryzen 7000X3D processor features a special CPU complex die (CCD) with stacked 3D Vertical Cache memory. This cache die is located in the central region over the CCD where its 32 MB on-die L3 cache is located, while the difference in Z-height of the stacked die is filled up by structural silicon, which sit over the regions of the CCD with the 8 "Zen 4" CPU cores. It stands to reason that besides having an inferior thermal transfer setup to conventional "Zen 4" CCDs (without the 3DV cache), the CCD itself has a higher power-draw at any given clock-speed than a conventional CCD (since it's also powering the L3D). This is the main reason why overclocking capabilities on the 7000X3D processors are almost non-existent, and the processor's power limits are generally lower than their regular Ryzen 7000X counterparts. Attempting to dial up voltage kicks up the perfect storm for these processors.
Igor's Lab posted a detailed analysis of the region of the Socket AM5 land-grid most susceptible to a burn-out in the above scenario. The central region of the LGA has 93 pins dedicated to the VDDCR power domain, dispersed in a mostly checkered pattern, toward the center of the land-grid. Igor isolated 6 of these VDDCR pins in particular, which are most prone to physical damage, as they are located in a region below the CCD that sees it sandwiched between the L3D (stacked 3D Vertical cache die), and the fiberglass substrate below. Apparently, AMD's thermal and electrical protection mechanisms aren't able to prevent a runaway overheating of the pins that causes the substrate to melt, deform, and bulge outward, resulting in irreversible damage to both the processor and the socket.
Meanwhile, AMD's motherboard partners are rushing to release UEFI BIOS updates for their entire lineups of motherboards, which enforce tighter limits on the VDDCR voltage. MSI is the first motherboard manufacturer with such updates. MSI, in a press statement, stated that it has redesigned automated overclocking for 7000X3D processors. "The BIOS now only supports negative offset voltage settings, which can reduce the CPU voltage only," the MSI statement to Tom's Hardware reads. "MSI Center also restricts any direct voltage and frequency adjustments, ensuring that the CPU won't be damaged due to over-voltage." On the other hand, the update introduces an automated overclocking feature called Enhanced Mode Boost, which optimizes PBO settings to improve boost frequency residency, without any manual voltage adjustments.
Sources:
Tom's Hardware 1, 2, Igor's Lab, Speedrookie (Reddit)
A Ryzen 7000X3D processor features a special CPU complex die (CCD) with stacked 3D Vertical Cache memory. This cache die is located in the central region over the CCD where its 32 MB on-die L3 cache is located, while the difference in Z-height of the stacked die is filled up by structural silicon, which sit over the regions of the CCD with the 8 "Zen 4" CPU cores. It stands to reason that besides having an inferior thermal transfer setup to conventional "Zen 4" CCDs (without the 3DV cache), the CCD itself has a higher power-draw at any given clock-speed than a conventional CCD (since it's also powering the L3D). This is the main reason why overclocking capabilities on the 7000X3D processors are almost non-existent, and the processor's power limits are generally lower than their regular Ryzen 7000X counterparts. Attempting to dial up voltage kicks up the perfect storm for these processors.
Meanwhile, AMD's motherboard partners are rushing to release UEFI BIOS updates for their entire lineups of motherboards, which enforce tighter limits on the VDDCR voltage. MSI is the first motherboard manufacturer with such updates. MSI, in a press statement, stated that it has redesigned automated overclocking for 7000X3D processors. "The BIOS now only supports negative offset voltage settings, which can reduce the CPU voltage only," the MSI statement to Tom's Hardware reads. "MSI Center also restricts any direct voltage and frequency adjustments, ensuring that the CPU won't be damaged due to over-voltage." On the other hand, the update introduces an automated overclocking feature called Enhanced Mode Boost, which optimizes PBO settings to improve boost frequency residency, without any manual voltage adjustments.
258 Comments on AMD Ryzen 7000X3D Processors Prone to Physical Damage with Voltage-assisted Overclocking, Motherboard Vendors Rush BIOS Updates with Voltage Limiters
And I find it funny cause reading the previous pages people are blaming the users that overclocked their chips despite amds warnings.. Yeah, right, cause overclocking should definitely burn a socket. Like wtf - this is supposedly a technological forum, lol
Anyway, first gen problems never miss on producing action.
When you are the pioneer you are prone to more danger, that's part of the fun in it.
www.anandtech.com/show/2859
The infamous 7980xe also was also able to burn the socket, because it had insanely good heat dissipation and you could keep pumping volts into it until the socket went kapoot. But that cannot happen with Ryzen, a single ccd zen 4 will melt before you can push over 150w at it.
Can we do some proper investigation before posting sensationalist news next time, please?
On the one hand, we've got this smear campaign purely for the views, then we have the same media outlets/users crying that there's no competition in the modern PC industry. Absolutely disgusting!
Many boards now have VRMs so powerful that they can sustain the current for a while if OCP for some reason doesn't kick in / isn't set properly.
Sound like a bad move aginst all those OC orianted PR mobos and will put AMD CPU`s at permanent disadvantage.
So could it be that the BIOS vendor messed up here? :confused: Most motherboard manufacturers get their core BIOS from AMI (American Megatrends), so that would be a common denominator.
"Most PC motherboard suppliers licensed a BIOS "core" and toolkit from a commercial third party, known as an "independent BIOS vendor" or IBV. The motherboard manufacturer then customized this BIOS to suit its own hardware. For this reason, updated BIOSes are normally obtained directly from the motherboard manufacturer." (Source: Wikipedia)
Honestly, I think every overclocker should first be clear on what they're doing, and not make a fuss on online media and blame the manufacturer when something goes wrong. It's just childish.
Every AM5 mobo maker is frantically deleting old BIOSes from their websites and put out latest BIOS with limited voltages, user errors....yeah right
Intel technically considers XMP as OC as well, an so does AMD with EXPO.
Quote: "No CPU overclocking, just memory via the EXPO 1 profile."
AMD however does consider running RAM faster than DDR5-5200 as "out of spec" overclocking. Even though they're advertising & selling it as a safe feature. You don't have to change voltages manually to crazy levels, just enabling the built in EXPO RAM setting will void you warranty. Some shady business right there. Intel does the same, though.
I wonder what his SoC voltage was at the time of the damage. My board defaults to VSoC = VDIMM = 1.35 V in my case, but it runs fine with 1.2 V and EXPO enabled.
All the other humans in this thread over-reacting to Asus' and some Reddit user blunders need to take reading comprehension.
No one said their MSI mobo fried there chip, MSI updated the bios to prevent idiots from frying their chip. No one but Derbauer has seen any other failure. I bet he tried real hard to fry that chip too.
AEMP/DOCP
Asus advertises the unique abilities they provide to overclock beyond AMD's guidelines. It's a selling point. EXPO and DOCP/AEMP are 2 different things.