btarunrdoes not change the maximum file-size limit of 4 GB.

Well took them long enough & it's nearly useless with that :shadedshu:

Read about it last week. There are a few catches, though:
1) As far as I understand from vague descriptions - it's only for format command, so you won't be able to do it in GUI as you'd suspect (not in diskmgmt.msc, and not in format dialogue)
2) Not sure if it applies to diskpart either, which is a total bummer
3) it's only making its way in testing build, so knowing MS there is no guarantee that it'll roll out to consumers

Stupid MS one step forward & at least half a step back :slap:

Windows 10pro and Windows 11 pro was not able to format an USB stick with 8GB or 16GB with fat in the last years

I managed to create usb sticks with vfat, which should be fat32 afaik, with 8 and 16GB in gnu gentoo linux several times.

www.man7.org/linux/man-pages/man8/mkfs.vfat.8.html

Assuming that information is correct: What is the current size limitation of mkfs.vfat?
stackoverflow.com/questions/40012887/what-is-the-maximum-volume-size-of-vfat
2TB for 512 byte sector size and 16TB for a 4K sector size.

I think microsoft is very late in implementing that feature.

As far as I have understood, or which I assume, vfat should be fat32.

FAT32 is an archaic temporary solution to borrowed trouble. I still don't understand what people mean when they yap about a 32GB limit when that was my ENTIRE 80GB volume for a few years under Win95, Win2K then WinXP. You think pre-WinPE I'm going to be jumping back and forth between my data volumes without a read guarantee? Times have changed and we've moved on hell far. I don't know who's still using FAT32 in current year but NTFS is way more solid now (XP and newer) and with any luck we'll be able to make better use of ReFS real soon. Not all of us need the security features of NTFS in a Windows ecosystem. ✔

DaemonForceI don't know who's still using FAT32 in current year

ASUS X670-P Prime mainboard -> for firmware update / saving all bios settings on usb stick
MSI B550 Gaming EDGE WIFI -> same

Car Radio for playing mp3 files from USB stick. Windows could not / can not format fat32 for 8 and 16GB USB sticks for years.

NTFS / vfat are both antique and mediocre file systems.

If you have a device that needs a very large update, you have to update it via flash drive, and the update file is huge (over 4 gigs), and the device only supports fat32......this could come in real handy. It is a pretty specific set of circumstances, I will grant you, but it happens. Car infotainment centers, industrial equipment, etc are commonly updated via flash drive, and often only support fat, and file sizes aren't getting any smaller.

Do they though? My boards forever have always stated fat32. But they take whatever sub I put in them. Shit the flash tools in the bios itself will transverse my refs volumes.

Anyway regardless of niche use case for which I’m convinced is all there is now your cluster slack is going to be atrocious. Fat32 can’t die soon enough.

_roman_ASUS X670-P Prime mainboard -> for firmware update / saving all bios settings on usb stick

The firmware updates require FAT32?
I've updated my X570 TUF a few times but I just grab a 1GB USB stick and dump ROM to the FAT16 partition.
It makes security sense that it wouldn't understand NTFS or any modern FS.
If I need to use a bigger USB flash I'm probably making one big NTFS/ReFS and consistently booting from that.

_roman_Car Radio for playing mp3 files from USB stick. Windows could not / can not format fat32 for 8 and 16GB USB sticks for years.

That's so weird. Is this an issue for the antique XPe carputers? Ain't no waaaay.

Solaris17Do they though? My boards forever have always stated fat32. But they take whatever sub I put in them. Shit the flash tools in the bios itself will transverse my refs volumes.

That's insane. What kind of firmware has that much freedom?

What has security got to do with FAT or NTFS?

Let it die already.

I would agree with all of the above. Just sayin there is a lot of equipment of all kinds out there that occasionally need firmware/software updates and only support fat. Good, bad, or indifferent, could be a useful IT knowledge tidbit at some point.

DaemonForceFAT32 is an archaic temporary solution to borrowed trouble. I still don't understand what people mean when they yap about a 32GB limit when that was my ENTIRE 80GB volume for a few years under Win95, Win2K then WinXP. You think pre-WinPE I'm going to be jumping back and forth between my data volumes without a read guarantee? Times have changed and we've moved on hell far. I don't know who's still using FAT32 in current year but NTFS is way more solid now (XP and newer) and with any luck we'll be able to make better use of ReFS real soon. Not all of us need the security features of NTFS in a Windows ecosystem. ✔

exFAT needs license so there are a tonne of devices(car radios, cheapo bluetooth speakers, soundbars, etc...) that only support FAT32 file system. Also its easy to implement that filesystem without too many overheads which makes it goto choice for devices that dont have much compute resources.

I think the major factor here is that there are plenty of devices with no support for NTFS or exFAT, and modern flash drives are over 32GB in size. Very few people know how to create multiple partitions (if DiskMgmt even allows them on the flash drive).

Sigh, that was a way hash deletion. I didn't call anyone names at all.

USB and SD cards all generally come formatted to FAT32 or ExFAT. It's still a perfectly valid, and exceedingly common, way to carry files on removable drives. It's silly to go around dissing it just because its old. As others have pointed out NTFS is just as old.

ChaitanyaexFAT needs license so there are a tonne of devices(car radios, cheapo bluetooth speakers, soundbars, etc...) that only support FAT32 file system. Also its easy to implement that filesystem without too many overheads which makes it goto choice for devices that dont have much compute resources.

ExFAT has now been open sourced, so that might be out of date to say it requires licensing still.

ExFAT is just as its name suggests, an extension to FAT32.

ChaitanyaexFAT needs license so there are a tonne of devices(car radios, cheapo bluetooth speakers, soundbars, etc...) that only support FAT32 file system. Also its easy to implement that filesystem without too many overheads which makes it goto choice for devices that dont have much compute resources.

I did not know about this. I still have a BT soundbar boxed up somewhere, unused. If it supports local storage it's probably going to be one of those FAT16/32 USBs.

bobsledVery few people know how to create multiple partitions (if DiskMgmt even allows them on the flash drive).

I mean...I don't see why not.

Its as if exFAT doesnt exist, I still think it bonkers they added FAT32 to UEFI but not its replacement exFAT.

Exfat is not fat32. Does not work on my car radio for example

@DaemonForce I also used that assistant on windows 11 pro for creating larger fat32 partitions. But when I read it out with the userspace tool with the linux kernel I get as a result, EXFAT was created and not fat32. Fat32 was selected in that dialog in windows while creating the file system. the feature was / is broken.

That microsoft assistant is basically false. Do it - read out the partition with a valid tool - e.g. gparted livecd or using gparted with sysrescue-cd. I assume the casual user is able o use a livelinux iso but do not have gnu linux with userspace installed.

DaemonForceThe firmware updates require FAT32?

DaemonForceThe firmware updates require FAT32?
I've updated my X570 TUF a few times but I just grab a 1GB USB stick and dump ROM to the FAT16 partition.

That's exactly what I do with vfat on a 128MB Lexar USB drive. vfat should be different as fat32. => mkfs.vfat is what i always use for ages, most likely since 2006 or earlier. I hardly format any stuff in windows.


It is always a good idea to resize and check Microsoft Windows generated file systems and partitions. Too big partitions means resizing. Wrong alingment and other stuff, change it.
The windows installer works the best when you give windows only a certain junk of the data drive without a partition and file system.

_roman_Exfat is not fat32. Does not work on my car radio for example

Yep, but it is basically something that is designed to work in the same use cases as FAT32, its successor, with some limitations of FAT32 increased to modern standards. exFAT was created in 2006, so plenty of time for it to have been implemented in UEFI bios's, cars, and other devices, something has prevented it meaning we left in 2024 still having to use FAT32 an obsolete file system for specific devices.

Ok just found this on the wikipedia page for exfAT.

exFAT (Extensible File Allocation Table) is a file system introduced by Microsoft in 2006 and optimized for flash memory such as USB flash drives and SD cards.[6] exFAT was proprietary until 28 August 2019, when Microsoft published its specification.[7] Microsoft owns patents on several elements of its design.[2]

That explains things.

_roman_Exfat is not fat32. Does not work on my car radio for example

That's true, but it's functionally the same and intended for the same purposes. Anyone diss'ing FAT32 for its outdated functionality is effectively also diss'ing ExFAT.

R0H1TWhat has security got to do with FAT or NTFS?

Is this a rhetorical question or a legitimate one? Given, even NTFS's file hierarchy and ownership system isn't exactly the most advanced or secure thing in the world. FAT simply has no security whatsoever.

Solaris17Do they though? My boards forever have always stated fat32. But they take whatever sub I put in them. Shit the flash tools in the bios itself will transverse my refs volumes.

Anyway regardless of niche use case for which I’m convinced is all there is now your cluster slack is going to be atrocious. Fat32 can’t die soon enough.

I remember the losses from formatting, I remember the lost links and orphan files, the orphan files were even used to hide malicious stuff back in the day.

answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/all/deleting-4gb-file-on-fat32-disk-leaves-orphan/78fa76f6-c73f-48b1-9529-ecbb6295d09b

Could we also include this tweet from the Dave Pummel who was task in making the Format UI and FAT32 limit.
x.com/davepl1968/status/1772042158046146792

I asked why does it matter what FS you need to update firmware? There's no technical limitation as such, except on old(er) machines. The reason multiple FS is not supported is probably more down to $$$ than anything else!

Dr. DroIs this a rhetorical question or a legitimate one? Given, even NTFS's file hierarchy and ownership system isn't exactly the most advanced or secure thing in the world. FAT simply has no security whatsoever.

Secure is "relative" in the context of BIOS updates, if you have local/physical access FS should be the last of your worries!

Dr. DroIs this a rhetorical question or a legitimate one? Given, even NTFS's file hierarchy and ownership system isn't exactly the most advanced or secure thing in the world. FAT simply has no security whatsoever.

Booting up "live cd" on a computer containing a NTFS drive allowed deletion and or copy/access of whatever file and you could totally ignore everything unless it was encrypted. Even reading the Metadata table to recover deleted files was easy.

But still lightyears ahead of FAT disk.

R0H1TI asked why does it matter what FS you need to update firmware? There's no technical limitation as such, except on old(er) machines. The reason multiple FS is not supported is probably more down to $$$ than anything else!


Secure is "relative" in the context of BIOS updates, if you have local/physical access FS should be the last of your worries!

It matters as newer drives aren't getting smaller, and if we reach a limit in the future a lot of non-power users won't be able to create an update tool.

You can manually change a partition size and bypass the limit but would Windows let a batch file like that run since it could also destroy volumes if pointed at the wrong drive?