Neo_MorpheusBlender devs themselves only targeted Ngreedia and didnt do any optimization for AMD gpus for a while. Some people even speculated it was due to being fanbois.
Last time I checked, they started using ROCm and that has improved the software.

I hate the fact that AMD used the 9 moniker, since everyone thinks that they are competing with the 4090.
That said, its stupid to ignore the fact that in many (not all) benchmarks, the 7900xtx is around 15 to 20% slower but can cost up to 100% 50% less.
That’s assuming best case scenario in pricing for AMD (800 in my particular case) to 2k for the 4090 (worse case for Ngreedia when msrp prices weren't available)

Please read my comment again.

And everyone bought…4080 Super, instead of 7900xtx.

Which bring us back to the hypocrites asking for AMD to compete. They will not buy an AMD gpu regardless of how good it is. All they want is for Ngreedia to cut prices so they would get their beloved Ngreedias gpus cheaper.

Vayra86Agreed, but if the top end of RDNA4 isn't moving forward much past the 7900XT, then how much movement is the 6700/6800XT crowd really waiting for? +20%? They can already buy a discounted 7900GRE or XT now...

Vayra86Not exactly going to be earth shattering, its going to have to come from the improved featureset if anything then. And let's consider that. Even IF AMD gains perf/feature parity with RDNA4 on RT and FSR (probably too tall an order) and they release a 500 dollar GPU that performs like a 7900XT. If you had a 6800XT now, would you pay that? Again... its not really an earth shattering jump here, and if you really wanted RT, you'd have gone for Nvidia at this point.

I'm not convinced of AMD's rationale or strategy here. They're responding, roll for initiative: critical miss. The last time they focused on their midrange they came up 2 generations short of Nvidia which is what got us into the RTX mess in the first place. AMD managed to completely stall at Vega performance for what, 5-7 years? Also, look at Intel, fighting tooth and nail to get every bit of performance out of Xe so they can finally compete in the midrange. AMD has a high end segment position in spitting distance and says 'meh, whatever'. I can't even.

Vayra86Good riddance its about time you guys stopped paying over 1k for these temporary items. You have yourself and only yourself to blame for this, jumping on every new x90 like its candy

Outback BronzeWell, this is the problem isn't it...

Where is AMD's current mid-range cards on that list? It's still dominated by Nvidia.

I'd say it's still going to be difficult for AMD to break into that mid-range tier when Nvidia will still have an opposing product next gen.

I am wishing Radeons well. We need it!

csendesmarkI don't have recent experience with Nvidia drivers... but I can tell AMD is not doing well on that department.

BagerklestyneI'd be willing to consider that.

I've just moved to all 4k (after our monitor discussion I pulled the trigger on a MSI MPG321URX) so 4k/high refresh is the aim. I'll be playing league of legends and solitaire at high refresh I guess.

I think after seeing what Wukong, Star Wars outlaws and now Space Marine 2 take to run at 4k and not get even near 120fps I'll be moderating my expectations for a generation or 3.

wolfIf you didn't believe it then why would you believe it now? I can provide it, but I can tell right now it won't change your mind as it's already made up. Personally I found AMD's inability to provide a simple yes or no answer to a very straight forward question asked of them by multiple reputable tech press outlets very telling. If they we're absolutely not doing it, it would have been extremely easy and great PR to just say so. At best their PR and marketing department are woefully incompetent and mishandled one of the easiest (possible) perception wins of the year (in the timeline where they're innocent), and at worst they absolutely intentionally blocked competitor upscaling technology, riiight up until they either wound back the requirement or the clause expired, and then they still couldn't give a clear, unambiguous retrospective answer. It's not a criminal law case, so both sides of the argument will never get a beyond all reasonable doubt/proof type finding, we're all free to make a judgement based on a balance of probabilities and available evidence, and I, like several reputable tech press outlets, believe it's more likely than not AMD did the bad thing intentionally so they shut up for months while doing damage control. You're free to disagree and make your own judgement naturally, but like I doubt I can convince you they did it, you are extremely unlikely to convince me they didn't, unless you have something new to share we didn't all see at the time. My point is that this many reputable, reasonable people didn't come up with it out of thin air because they have an AMD hate boner, they came to the conclusion because of it's relative plausibility.

And no matter what the full truth is, the fallout was actually great for everyone, since the Starfield fiasco there's been a perceptible shift and more titles are getting all 3 major competing upscalers and nobody is intentionally blocking anything, everybody wins.

AusWolfI remember that people were pointing at evidence left and right, and I was looking at where they were pointing, then took out a magnifying glass, then took out a microscope, and I still couldn't see any.

AusWolfI also remember pointing out that locking a game into a technology that everybody can use isn't as bad as locking it into a technology that only last-gen Nvidia card owners can use (which is what Nvidia had been doing before that without any backlash), but no one cared.

AusWolfAnyway, this is quite off-topic, so let me leave it at that. :)

Vayra86There's generally an ocean between 'want' and 'will do'.

What did you pay for your 6900XT? I think that'll underline this just fine :)

AusWolf4K high refresh is 4090 territory, there's no other card in existence which can achieve that. You should have considered this before the monitor upgrade.

AusWolfWhat do you mean? I've been using both AMD and Nvidia concurrently in the last 8-10 years, and with the exception of the 5700 XT, all AMD drivers have been fine.

despite all the talk about “2000 bucks flagship”, will have products at all price points

wolfEveryone is free to look at the evidence and make their own determination, even if that is that it doesn't constitute evidence at all (lets take a moment to remember the definition of evidence - "the available body of facts or information indicating whether a belief or proposition is true or valid").. It's well documented that reputable tech press reviewed the history of the situation (for both camps) and made the same determination I did. Neither of us are inherently right or wrong to determine what we chose to from reviewing the evidence, I just know that to me, it lead to a conclusion I found to be likely. ANd (not that you asserted it) I reject that I or tech press came to our conclusion because of bias against AMD.

This gets said a lot but honestly I call BS, loads of people care and loads of people complained about that before and during the Starfield fiasco. Perhaps another case of us both looking at the same stuff (and of course lots of different stuff/discussions too) and having different takeaways and conclusions.

Happy to, I by no means am of the opinion that I am irrefutably correct and that this definitely happened, I just really think it did based on the evidence I saw. I end up back at, loads of people thought it did, and also loads of people thought it didn't, and we'll likely never know the undeniable truth of the matter, so I regard this as sort of like a cold case/unsolved one, and will continue to believe what I believe until presented with extra/new information that can alter that belief.

Bagerklestynemonitor was 2/3 the price of the video card lol.

csendesmarkMy CS2 crashes with the driver error once a week, that is the only game I play.
Really annoying.

AusWolfIf any "evidence" necessitates that you draw your own subjective conclusion in the end, then it's not really evidence, is it? I asked the same question back then, but everybody was like "nah, my truth is the ultimate one, so STFU". Evidence makes the truth stand out in the spotlight, it leaves no room for personal judgement.

AusWolfAre you sure it's a driver problem, though?

AusWolfFair enough. I don't play that game, and I don't have any issue in any other, so I'm fine. Are you sure it's a driver problem, though?

cerulliberand no driver lottery

wolfI mean, that's the way evidence works, it's a broad term that covers relevant facts or information, evidence absolutely allows people to draw conclusions, some evidence is effectively proof, but not all evidence is a 100% conclusive "this means x person 100% did y crime", you need to listen to all the available evidence, and depending on the circumstance, only consider beyond all reasonable doubt to be acceptable (criminal case for ex) or on probability (civil case), but even that is talking about court cases and law rather than something not technically illegal but still a bad thing to do. Evidence doesn't need to be a literal smoking gun with fingerprints and a signed admission of guilt.

If those people gave you that answer well that also sucks, and I'd say it sucks for anyone saying the same but saying AMD didn't do the thing, there is no proof, but there is evidence that they did, and I'm inclined to believe it.

If someone accused AMD of child slavery in a direct yes or no question I'd imagine, incompetent as they seem to be, they'd go on record super fast denying it. All I was looking for from AMD was a swift and concise denial of what they were accused of, yet we got (paraphrasing) "no comment" for months. Yes, that's evidence.

csendesmarkI have 24.6.1 installed, upgraded from the utterly unstable 24.8.1- the driver crashed several times a day... did not check the latest tho, but generally I have low trust for their new drivers.

AusWolfFair enough. Then let's just say that there was never enough evidence for me to draw the absolute conclusion that AMD's hand was definitely in it. So with that, I let them off on this one. I like thinking on the premise of "innocent until proven guilty", and since no "evidence" served as proof... you know where I'm going. Of course, you're free to think on the contrary, but I don't think either your or my way of thinking is wrong.

AusWolfThat's cool, but have you ruled everything out? Is 24.6.1 undeniably more stable than 24.8.1?

ratirtIf AMD targets the mid range, what we are supposed to take from that?
Which would be the mid range card for the next gen? Is it the 7900 xt? The 7900 xt was $799 at release and it was quite a bit for something of that caliber.
What would be the price for the mid range of that caliber? Is $400 OK? It is still a mid range.
If AMD can sell 7900 XT performance for a $300 with the RDNA 4 arch I will be willing to buy it. $350 to consider

csendesmarkThe rig performs well, no other issues

wolfI'm not drawing an absolute conclusion either, I'm on the side of likelihood and I deem it more likely than not, personally, unless I see something very compelling to the contrary. Others seem keen to also say "what about when nvidia did.. ", and I'd argue that going by the same standard of evidence, they perhaps shouldn't be vilified either (for certain things). On likelihood however I'd also wager nvidia did the many bad things that aren't conclusively proven that they've been accused of, just because on the basis of evidence it seems likely. Neither deserve a pass.

AusWolfI also. ....... anyway.

wolfYou're nothing if not reasonable my dude :toast:

Dr. DroYour justification is precisely why AMD is doing this. Why would they bother with a high investment, high complexity project for a high-end board if most Radeon gamers are running previous generation midrangers, tend to be precisely from the slice of the market that is all too happy to settle "conscientious consumers", don't upgrade unless there are massive gains and would rather shun and dismiss new features and advanced functionality if it means they save a buck... the whole defense of the Radeon business at this point has centered against the fact that Nvidia pushes the envelope too hard and charges too much for their products, yet at the same time, software would not advance if the hardware wasn't there to back it up. Turing was the prime example of this, it was the first of the modern architecture GPUs and it was extremely expensive with very limited software availability at the time.

A quiet, efficient chip is the best upsell they can offer at this point in time. Best to use the wafers in high-margin businesses like Epyc, after all, Radeon's core audience doesn't really care about DLSS, RT, or even day one driver optimization...

DavenIt’s important to point out here that we are talking mainstream performance in the NEXT gen which means high performance in the current gen.

AMD cannot release 7800xt performance levels as the max RDNA4. The highest SKU needs to tie or beat 7900XT levels which would move down a peg in the next series typically.

lasAMD is not competiting in the enthusiast tier in current gen either.

AMD mostly sell cards in the sub 500 dollar segment, nothing new really.

The most popular AMD cards of all time are like sub 250 dollar cards.

AMD is years behind on features and drivers are simply way more wonky. Especially when you leave the most popular titles that gets benchmarked alot (for reviews). AMD GPU is terrible in most early access games, lesser popular games and in emulators. With Nvidia you get good performance across the board, with drivers ready for new games before release date, and best features possible. Resell value is higher because demand is higher. Watt usage is lower.

You literally save nothing by going with an AMD GPU when you factor it all in. Hence why marketshare keeps dropping.

AusWolfHave you tried with an Nvidia card of similar calibre?