JustBenchingIf you agreed to make a trade, then you'll make a trade. The fiat conversion is not needed. Replace BTC with something else. Let's say you agreed to trade a 4090 with a car, just because the 4090 suddenly spiked up or down in price doesn't mean you'll now have to pay with 2 4090s

Right, but you didn't solve the real-world problem of wages/global trade; even in your ideal world, all jobs would then move back to the West, and we'd be twiddling our thumbs out here.

JustBenchingA famine at your town is a local event that does little to nothing to the prices. Inflation is, thinking that if you start saving money now you can have your own house in 15 years only to find out that now, 15 years later, you did save the amount you needed but the houses are 5 times more expensive.

Food prices increasing is (classical) inflation. I'm not sure in which utopia you wouldn't have that, but food price inflation is a major issue in 90% of the world; it's not a local event, and in places like India where there isn't major corporate farming, vegetable/fruit prices change daily! That's also true for probably 70-80% of the global population outside the US & Western Europe.

JustBenchingNo idea who that is, I'm not watching anything crypto related on YouTube (or any other platform).

Ok, then how do you explain this fascination with only (?) printing money causing inflation? It's like you didn't see the 70's oil shock, or the 2008 record oil prices, or the 2020 oil futures going negative.

Some of it can be dumbed down to monetary policies, but a lot of them were supply-side issues that wouldn't go away overnight!

R0H1TRight, but you didn't solve the real-world problem of wages/global trade; even in your ideal world, all jobs would then move back to the West, and we'd be twiddling our thumbs out here.

Food prices increasing is (classical) inflation. I'm not sure in which utopia you wouldn't have that, but food price inflation is a major issue in 90% of the world; it's not a local event, and in places like India where there isn't major corporate farming, vegetable/fruit prices change daily! That's also true for probably 70-80% of the global population outside the US & Western Europe.

Ok, then how do you explain this fascination with only (?) printing money causing inflation? It's like you didn't see the 70's oil shock, or the 2008 record oil prices, or the 2020 oil futures going negative.

Some of it can be dumbed down to monetary policies, but a lot of them were supply-side issues that wouldn't go away overnight!

Im not suggesting BTC to replace fiat. Im not even sure how that would be possible, the network isn't meant to handle the required traffic.

I just checked some statistics, we've increased food production by 56% in the past 22 years, yet the food pricing has (depending on where you live, of course) gone up to 10x up. Which I think is the wrong way of looking at it, I think your money is just worth 10 times less

You are correct that there are events that cause rapidly changing prices but that's not what we call inflation. The scarcity of oil (for whatever reason) doesn't mean that eg. milk is more expensive (well it is because oil can be used in the production and distribution but that's a separate issue), but the value of your currency is still high, it's just the value of oil that skyrocketed. Inflation on the other hand is well, basically when everything is "more expensive".

My overall point is although BTC is mainly used as a speculative asset, it's also very promising for the storage of wealth due to the limited availability. I can't see much else use for it though.

JustBenchingInflation on the other hand is well, basically when everything is "more expensive".

I wouldn't go into debating about inflation's exact definition, since I'm not an economist, but food prices & fuel probably constitute the bulk of any nation's daily expenditure. Now granted with higher per capita income, that proportion can go down drastically, but the fact remains that printing or not printing money doesn't affect these two things radically, if at all, over long periods of time.

JustBenchingMy overall point is although BTC is mainly used as a speculative asset

And this is why it cannot be used as a currency, at least IMO.

JustBenchingit's also very promising for the storage of wealth due to the limited availability.

Also pretty hard to get back when it's stolen, has extremely high transaction costs in terms of electricity, & is very expensive to convert back to FIAT on some exchanges/places like here with multiple(?) taxes.

JustBenchingThe principal difference is that the value will not go down because of scarcity. It's by its very nature inflation proof.

What are you not getting. Scarcity is a matter of perspective, I'm not explaining it again, just re-read what I wrote in previous posts in this thread.

JustBenchingYou think global food production is down compared to 2000?

Ukraine is mostly down and out as a grain producer and that hurt breads and the like a lot. It was one of the biggest.

Other than that you have a point but I just wanted to point out its not all great...

Space LynxWhat are you not getting. Scarcity is a matter of perspective, I'm not explaining it again, just re-read what I wrote in previous posts in this thread.

You did explain it, I just disagree with your explanation. Just because you can subdivide it doesn't make it any less scarce. If you have 10 bitcoins, you have 10 out of 21m bitcoins. No matter how much you divide it, you still have 10 out of 21m bitcoins. That's the main difference to fiat currency, having 1000$ doesn't mean anything cause 5 years from now there will be twice as much money in circulation.

JustBenchingYou did explain it, I just disagree with your explanation. Just because you can subdivide it doesn't make it any less scarce. If you have 10 bitcoins, you have 10 out of 21m bitcoins. No matter how much you divide it, you still have 10 out of 21m bitcoins. That's the main difference to fiat currency, having 1000$ doesn't mean anything cause 5 years from now there will be twice as much money in circulation.

we'll see i guess, not that i really care either way anymore. humanity is a failed species

I'm not at all mad that a rich friend of mine that I convinced to invest £5k in crypto to match what I had in there, now has £200k worth of crypto! I foolishly cashed out to get together my first house deposit, if I'd just waited the extra decade or so I could have almost bought the house outright!

It's been a fun ride though, & maybe that's what really matters. That's what I tell myself in bed at night.

And energy price for tractor also gets larger.

Bitcoin = Pyramid Scheme

Legacy-ZAMuch better than FIAT which they keep printing ad infinitum. :)

Inflation exists for a reason. Think about it. Why would anyone spend the money they earn when it's going to be worth more in the future? No one would buy anything they don't need, money would stop changing hands and we'd quickly see economies grind to a halt. The only way crypto could be used as a common currency is if it was also inflationary, just like fiat.

The average person gets poorer while everything else gets more expensive, I believe people like to call this scam "inflation", salaries are rarely adjusted to compensate for it. If you were compensated for it, as you should be, then the question becomes, why it needs to be there to start with? Answer: It's a tool to make some obscenely rich while making the rest nothing more than a slave, a debt slave and in debt you will always be, and you will have to serve to live.

The Rich would get even richer, because they're the ones making the money, and they're the ones that don't need to spend it.

This is the way out.

It is not, as I have explained. All crypto are speculative assets. You want people to buy in because you already bought in. It's the only way your asset increases in value, it's essentially an MLM, but in this case based off of hashtags that have no innate value and use a whole lot of electricity for both producing, and for transactions using them.

EatingDirtInflation exists for a reason. Think about it. Why would anyone spend the money they earn when it's going to be worth more in the future? No one would buy anything they don't need, money would stop changing hands and we'd quickly see economies grind to a halt. The only way crypto could be used as a common currency is if it was also inflationary, just like fiat.

The Rich would get even richer, because they're the ones making the money, and they're the ones that don't need to spend it.

It is not, as I have explained. All crypto are speculative assets. You want people to buy in because you already bought in. It's the only way your asset increases in value, it's essentially an MLM, but in this case based off of hashtags that have no innate value and use a whole lot of electricity for both producing, and for transactions using them.

Some great points in here, the really inexplicable thing for me is how BTC got that initial spark of interest, so that enough people were interested in it & it actually started to have a value worth noting. It's easy to see how it snowballs once it picks up traction, but why did enough people care in the first place? Probably somehow the medias fault.

Life always has a way to screw everything up. I had 11.5 BTC once in 2015 but a series of events life changes Trudeau Government cost of living had to sell it all to pay bills, rent, food on the table. Now in 2024 At least I have a good stable job good pay and out of debt again but if I had not had all the hard life events I would be a millionare.

LycanwolfenLife always has a way to screw everything up. I had 11.5 BTC once in 2015 but a series of events life changes Trudeau Government cost of living had to sell it all to pay bills, rent, food on the table. Now in 2024 At least I have a good stable job good pay and out of debt again but if I had not had all the hard life events I would be a millionare.

My biggest piss off is when I had those hard life events no family was able to help me. No one was able to bail me out. Same people that said I was crazy to have Bitcoin, Same people that said its a pozi scheme. That what pissed me off the most in life. These same people now seeing the price of it says dame you were not crazy.

Also same people and family think I'm crazy thinking EV's are not the future. Well show me one Used EV under 5 grand that does not need a new battery for 20 grand. Now Hydrogen Cars you could have a used market under 5 grand no need to replace a battery.

LycanwolfenLife always has a way to screw everything up. I had 11.5 BTC once in 2015 but a series of events life changes Trudeau Government cost of living had to sell it all to pay bills, rent, food on the table. Now in 2024 At least I have a good stable job good pay and out of debt again but if I had not had all the hard life events I would be a millionare.


My biggest piss off is when I had those hard life events no family was able to help me. No one was able to bail me out. Same people that said I was crazy to have Bitcoin, Same people that said its a pozi scheme. That what pissed me off the most in life. These same people now seeing the price of it says dame you were not crazy.

Also same people and family think I'm crazy thinking EV's are not the future. Well show me one Used EV under 5 grand that does not need a new battery for 20 grand. Now Hydrogen Cars you could have a used market under 5 grand no need to replace a battery.

Oh man, that hurts! I looked back over my crypto history last spike & I think I only ever had a max of 4.5ish BTC, so that hurts, but you win! ...or lose I guess :(

Totally with you on looking at the bright side though, I have all the things I actually need anyway so focus on the things I have, not the whatifs.

I watched a YouTube on third party EV battery refurb places that are starting to establish, since they can open up the packs & replace cells rather than just replacing the entire pack like the manufacturer does, they can often do refurbs for much less. But you're still talking thousands rather than your standard secondhand car repairs at hundreds (usually).