igormpBut both the 2080 Super and the 3060ti are faster than the 4060 and the 7600.
And the B580 is priced lower than both of its competitors (at least in the US).

Single Precision ( FP32 ) Processing Powers of these GPUs are as follows:

NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2080 SUPER = 11.15 TFLOPs
INTEL Arc B580 = 13.67 TFLOPs
NVIDIA GeForce RTX 4060 = 15.11 TFLOPs
NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3060 Ti = 16.20 TFLOPs
AMD Radeon RX 7600 = 21.75 TFLOPs

I'm Not against of Intel and more competition is better than NVIDIA-AMD monopoly.

There are real numbers, like Number of Streaming Processors and, as a result, a Peak Processing Power ( PPP ) of a GPU and you can Not speculate or exceed these numbers.

Unfortunately, GGforever clearly speculated.

ScaLibBDPSingle Precision ( FP32 ) Processing Powers of these GPUs are as follows:

NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2080 SUPER = 11.15 TFLOPs
INTEL Arc B580 = 13.67 TFLOPs
NVIDIA GeForce RTX 4060 = 15.11 TFLOPs
NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3060 Ti = 16.20 TFLOPs
AMD Radeon RX 7600 = 21.75 TFLOPs

Tbh, these have nothing to do with real life performance, especially not 3060 Ti and 7600, they have "doubled shaders" (calculated in fp32), but they don't work like that, at least not in gaming.

ScaLibBDPSingle Precision ( FP32 ) Processing Powers of these GPUs are as follows:

NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2080 SUPER = 11.15 TFLOPs
INTEL Arc B580 = 13.67 TFLOPs
NVIDIA GeForce RTX 4060 = 15.11 TFLOPs
NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3060 Ti = 16.20 TFLOPs
AMD Radeon RX 7600 = 21.75 TFLOPs

I'm Not against of Intel and more competition is better than NVIDIA-AMD monopoly.

There are real numbers, like Number of Streaming Processors and, as a result, a Peak Processing Power ( PPP ) of a GPU and you can Not speculate or exceed these numbers.

Unfortunately, GGforever clearly speculated.

The teraflops in last few years maybe are so true like a nanometers. /s

Vya DomusI think we're forgetting Intel is still battling the lowest end GPUs AMD and Nvidia have to offer, they're still far from being a real alternative.

Lowest end?

The B580 covers about 95% of the market.

That's cool, but where from? I still can't find a single UK retailer that has one.

Vya DomusI think we're forgetting Intel is still battling the lowest end GPUs AMD and Nvidia have to offer, they're still far from being a real alternative.

For people chasing the best of the best perhaps. For ordinary folks, it's just fine.

SSGBryanThe B580 covers about 95% of the market.

Nah, that would be 7800 XT/4070 Super, upper mid range cards do that, they can do even 4K (with some downsides) and aren't that expensive. I'm also pretty sure they sell the most. Mid range.

evernessinceYes, sucks that they canceled the higher end SKUs. Clearly that was a bad move given the reception.

They probably could not afford to make them. Imagine just how big the die area must be on those SKUs.

AcEIf they need a 300mm² *5nm* bleeding edge foundry (for) GPU(s), to compete with 1-2 gen old stuff, it just shows they *can't* bring faster stuff anyway, huge chips, super expensive to produce, not efficient, like this one. Can it even be done? Would it make them money? It will only compete with 7800 XT-ish anyway, so I'm highly sceptical if Intel can even bring something substantially better than this, without losing money on it. They're already losing money on this. This is like a 7800 XT size-wise, but has way less performance and costs ~half of it.

Intel stated their margins are thin, not that they are loosing money.

Mind you, margins on the mid-range are larger than the low end. If their goal is profitability going after the part of the market with fatter margins would make sense.

Right now in Germany they start at €309 with an Acer Nitro model, the LE is sold out since hours after the launch.....which is not so good anymore since they get in the 6700XT range. I really do hope they will restock them fast.

evernessinceIntel stated their margins are thin, not that they are loosing money.

Mind you, margins on the mid-range are larger than the low end. If their goal is profitability going after the part of the market with fatter margins would make sense.

Well, thin isn't sustainable, it's just bad. We all know that.

Yes and that will be hard if their lower card is already 300mm² big. Good luck with that. No, honestly. Possible yes, making money with it? Unlikely, low margins very possible again. All in all, Intel is not leaving a sustainable impression, just like with their CPUs. Expensive, nobody is buying them, bad performance.

"Alchemist" all over again. So far.

AcEWell, thin isn't sustainable, it's just bad. We all know that.

Yes and that will be hard if their lower card is already 300mm² big. Good luck with that. No, honestly. Possible yes, making money with it? Unlikely, low margins very possible again.

Thin margins are pretty expected when you want to crack into a market. AMD demonstrated this with Zen and you saw it time and again with Walmart, Amazon, ect.

AcEAll in all, Intel is not leaving a sustainable impression, just like with their CPUs. Expensive, nobody is buying them, bad performance.

"Alchemist" all over again. So far.

No, it's certainly different this time. Multiple publications have shown great demand for Battlemage and their drivers are in a much better spot. I'm not saying they will pass AMD or Nvidia but they are in a position to start building a positive impression and gaining marketshare.

evernessinceThin margins are pretty expected when you want to crack into a market. AMD demonstrated this with Zen and you saw it time and again with Walmart, Amazon, ect.

Zen margins were never as bad as this, GPU margins are generally worse since the chips are much bigger and don't sell for more. Zen 1 had 8 core CPUs for 350-500$, not big chips like this either. Zen 2 had expensive skus that made money. etc.

evernessinceNo, it's certainly different this time. Multiple publicans have shown great demand for Battlemage and their drivers are in a much better spot.

Drivers are the only thing, otherwise again inefficient and big architecture for low performance like last time. 2 generations behind aside from RT cores.

AcEthe drivers are also bad, let's not set different standards on Intel, if it were AMD all here would be shitting on it, because of the drivers

Except they aren't and it doesn't matter how many times and in how many threads you continue to post this, it's not true. Every single review for the B580 has a section talking about how stable the drivers are compared to where Arc started, and the biggest gripes were toward overclocking tools (something 0.1% of people bother with and is already pretty pointless with how high the card boosts) and the single game crash in Cyberpunk 2077 with RT Ultra settings.

AcEThe drivers are atrocious, that's why they did 50 updates last year, so bad were they. Hard pass, GPUs are to enjoy and not to deal with beta stuff. 12 GB ain't saving it either.

The launch drivers for Arc 2 years ago were bad, yes. Last time I looked at a calendar it wasn't 2022 anymore. Get with the times.

It genuinely feels like you just want to threadcrap wherever Arc is mentioned because you are salty about the EU pricing. Sorry the product isn't for you, but your one-man-crusade isn't swaying people away from the first interesting low/mid-range GPU since the RX 480 in 2016.

FouquinExcept they aren't

Do you have a source for this? Sorry if I don't take your word for it.

FouquinThe launch drivers for Arc 2 years ago were bad, yes. Last time I looked at a calendar it wasn't 2022 anymore. Get with the times.

They were bad for a long long time, not just a few days, mind you. They are still not on the same level as AMD/Nvidias. Especially the control panel isn't. Is interesting how people are willing to close both eyes for Intel drivers but for AMD the literal opposite is done - talking them bad while they have no issues (or something else is the issue).

evernessinceYes, sucks that they canceled the higher end SKUs. Clearly that was a bad move given the reception.

Did they actually? I thought the B780/770 or whatever was still coming.

It is vice versa with Intel.

They have strong client products in every market, only 13th/14th gen core-I chips had issues. Datacenter/AI/Networking and now 2. gen GPUs, Intel have every opportunity to push. They even fixed production by going partner with TSMC for that, easy. They have very strong partnerships in every segment from all the years past, and even tho they have a lot of work to do, who else if not Intel can do it!

Layoffs happen in every major economy nowadays, automotive, energy, building materials, chemicals, you name it, and that even could be unrelated to a faulty product!

Their competitor struggled over decade ago, had a stock chart everyone smiled & cried about, but also everyone have witnessed how they have recovered from this phase.

So there we are @AcE , you don't want to act like one, but you do nothing other than repeating youtubers bullshit, you can't bring a single of you own thought.

ChaitanyaAMD GPU division needs to learn from this Intel launch in all aspects. It was such a refreshing launch not overpromising anything and delivering on the promise at a reasonable price. Not surprised to find it selling well.

Its funny how this looks so simple when you say it like that.

And it that simple indeed. Don't oversell, deliver, be honest, and now, for Intel: be consistent. Or they'll end up like AMD, forever in doubt and never truly committed.

Vya DomusI think we're forgetting Intel is still battling the lowest end GPUs AMD and Nvidia have to offer, they're still far from being a real alternative.

That is correct, but they are moving in on them. Nobody expected Intel to be nuking red/green's entire midrange into the ground, only Intel did before they got their first reality check. The rest just hoped.

But what's far more important to me now is this: the games are actually functional on it. There is a real, proper product that just works. And when it does, it also gets near parity on lots of metrics: Power, frametime consistency, feature package... The fact it even does RT better than AMD after 2 iterations of RDNA is promising, too.

Intel has now passed numerous hard to tackle hurdles. That's big. If they can scale these metrics properly to the high end, they're playing the game for real. And even that doesn't have to happen within one or two generations: if they can keep pace now and add a new SKU on the top every gen, they're on a solid trajectory. They buy time that way to build mind- and marketshare, trust, and build pressure on the market which is badly needed.

Vayra86Intel has now passed numerous hard to tackle hurdles. That's big. If they can scale these metrics properly to the high end, they're playing the game for real. And even that doesn't have to happen within one or two generations: if they can keep pace now and add a new SKU on the top every gen, they're on a solid trajectory. They buy time that way to build mind- and marketshare, trust, and build pressure on the market which is badly needed.

Agreed; and let’s not forget as iv said in other posts BMG is not an iteration of alchemist. It’s an entirely new design. The fact they could even reach this level of performance on not only gen 2 but on a totally new architecture is staggering to me. I know some will argue the performance is bad compared to there pedigree citing there iGPUs. However it was never as simple as “just make little GPU big GPU.” From feature levels to features themselves it was a massive lift. That’s just the cards. As someone who owned a A380 like the first week of ARC the driver team? Well I haven’t seen dedication or improvement like that literally ever. From AMD or Nvidia.

For the simple reason that the hardware moved at the pace of software. Intel is playing catchup in every conceivable way. From hardware to drivers, and they aren’t competing with someone who has a week head start, someone they can overtake by running there horse into the night. Nvidia and AMD have easily 2+ decades on Intel in discrete land.

They are in there infancy; there performance and hurdles they discuss publicly kind of solidify that. I don’t think B7xx will be earth shattering and I don’t think celestial will be either. But they are trying. Even Tom mentioned Celestial is in the hands of engineering but the architects are already on Druid.

It’s easy to pull for the consumer; that is a big part of having a third player. But I am hoping Nvidia and AMD catch the hint. I know many want lower prices, and who doesn’t? I am hoping though that Nvidia and AMD get the fire back in them. The drive to stay ahead. Improving and adding useful features. Then everyone will win no matter what brand you want to buy.

It won’t happen next year; but between the 3 of them I am hopeful it will start in the next 5 years. I think the hidden win is it shows that entering the market can be done. Even if Intel ultimately decides to pull out. Who knows who was watching and decided they will try there hand.

Vayra86Its funny how this looks so simple when you say it like that.

And it that simple indeed. Don't oversell, deliver, be honest, and now, for Intel: be consistent. Or they'll end up like AMD, forever in doubt and never truly committed.


That is correct, but they are moving in on them. Nobody expected Intel to be nuking red/green's entire midrange into the ground, only Intel did before they got their first reality check. The rest just hoped.

But what's far more important to me now is this: the games are actually functional on it. There is a real, proper product that just works. And when it does, it also gets near parity on lots of metrics: Power, frametime consistency, feature package... The fact it even does RT better than AMD after 2 iterations of RDNA is promising, too.

Intel has now passed numerous hard to tackle hurdles. That's big. If they can scale these metrics properly to the high end, they're playing the game for real. And even that doesn't have to happen within one or two generations: if they can keep pace now and add a new SKU on the top every gen, they're on a solid trajectory. They buy time that way to build mind- and marketshare, trust, and build pressure on the market which is badly needed.

It all sounds nice, but as long as the product itself isn't available anywhere, it doesn't really mean anything.

The curious thing here is that we’ve only gotten the B580 reviews. Where is the B570, and the models above B580 that are not even talked about? It feels a bit like Intel’s 5700XT moment—a great card for its segment, but it’s not threatening much except a single price point. Granted, it’s a great segment for disrupting, and I’m really hoping AMD counters the pricing for comparable models. If the 6750 XT went for $250 and the 7600 went for $235, that would get my attention.

chstamosI agree with everyone saying that this GPU is a welcome addition, and in fact a promising start for intel.

However... they need to seriously look at their distribution channels. It's one thing waiting for restock at MSRP, as in USA. The B580 will still be good value when newegg restocks in a couple of weeks, at the suggested 250 sticker price.

What we're getting in Europe, on the other hand, is another thing altogether. Lowest I've seen it go for is 370, and more stores are selling it even at RX 7700 XT prices. That is certainly... not a good proposition. Intel needs to sort themselves out with their AIBs.

Same shit as with the A series. They seem dead set on only selling to the diehards in Europe.
I guess they just don't give a fuck.
It makes me irrationally upset whenever a reviewer gloats about these cards, even though I know damn well that they're addressing the American market first and foremost where Intel is pricing the cards properly.

Darmok N JaladWhere is the B570, and the models above B580 that are not even talked about?

You mean you're surprised people aren't talking about cards that haven't released yet? The B770 or w/e it's going to be called?

Nostraseven though I know damn well that they're addressing the American market first

You do know that AMD, Intel, Nvidia are American companies right?

ScrizzYou mean you're surprised people aren't talking about cards that haven't released yet? The B770 or w/e it's going to be called?

Taken out of context, you miss my point.

Well this is great news, Intel needed some positive light, judging by the reviews it looks like a solid card for the price, now just hope Intel can do the same with their CPU's....