newtekie1IMO, Apple locking it's OS to only work on their PCs is a scam so they can sell overpriced hardware to people that love the OS.

sort of like microsoft locking dx10 to itself isn't it? its a scam so that they can make their oses sell and its the only way they can shove the POS they call vista down our throats anyway.. besides making dell etc put it on their new machines...

as for loosing all buisness.. no one would go buy imacs etc if osx was made for pcs... just like how no one would get vista if dx10 was released for os x/linux/etc

you cant possible support support microsoft and then condemn mac for locking their os.

panchomansort of like microsoft locking dx10 to itself isn't it? its a scam so that they can make their oses sell and its the only way they can shove the POS they call vista down our throats anyway.. besides making dell etc put it on their new machines...

as for loosing all buisness.. no one would go buy imacs etc if osx was made for pcs... just like how no one would get vista if dx10 was released for os x/linux/etc

you cant possible support support microsoft and then condemn mac for locking their os.

I didn't support Microsoft. I buy their products only because I have to. We aren't talking about Microsoft and DX10 here, that is an entirely different topic, AKA off topic here. We aren't talking about Microsoft, we are talking about Apple.

You are right, no one would buy iMacs if OSX worked on every PC. Which brings me back to my point. Apple locking their OS to only their hardware is a scam to over-charge for their hardware. If they released their OS for every PC it would force them to to actually be competitive on their hardware prices, which is a good thing, not a bad thing.

Lets review: Competition=GOOD

How is that hard to understand and how can you make the argument against it?:banghead:

jbizzlerfarlex86, take a closer look.

$1200 to $1500 is $300. For that $300 you get
2.4GHz to 2.66GHz CPU
1GB to 2GB RAM
250GB to 320GB Harddrive
Radeon HD 2400 XT with 128mb to Radeon HD 2600 Pro with 256mb

You said it was just bigger harddrive and noted the graphics jump, but named them incorrectly.

The next jump is $300 as well:
20'' to 24'' screen
2.66GHz to 2.8GHz

The lower-end 24'' model can have its parts configured individually to the upper one:
$200 for 2.8GHz to 3.06GHz CPU
$200 for jump from 2GB to 4GB of RAM
$150 for jump from 2600 Pro to 8800 GS
$50 for jump from 320GB to 500GB Harddrive

This is similar to the prices we see in all PC manufactures. It only seems expensive for people used to building their own computers, but don't forget these are all specially-made parts to fit into this all-in-one iMac. The CPU cost is because it's a CPU made for laptops. $150 jump to 8800 GS is not like some 8800 GS you can buy at Newegg; it's a special form that fits inside the monitor and actually has more RAM than the standard 8800 GS. $50 for jump from 320GB to 500GB is about the same as you'd see anywhere. The only thing really overpriced is the RAM, but luckily, you can easily upgrade that!

For $1500, I can build a similar PC; machine, monitor, speakers, keyboard, mouse, OS, and all similar to the machine I speced out a few posts up. Now consider the quality of materials, special form factor, the fact that it's already built, the singular support for being one of Apple's few machines, and the ability to run OS X, and I think it's worth it. If you don't care about all those extras, then it'd be silly to get one; but if you do like those extras, then it's worth it I think.

ManofGod: Also, consider how much more time Apple would have to spend on making OS X compatible for even a small array of Windows hardware, and how much more they'd have to spend on support. They are two completely different business strategies that can't be compared directly. It all comes down to preference. I used to feel like I was being jipped out of an OS as well, until I realized there are plenty of reasons to only allow OS X on Apple computers other than making you buy their hardware.

If you really want, there are ways to run OS X on regular PC hardware, but it's illegal, and I don't reccommend it.

Ok, I guess I didn't look close enough. And that is better than the previous pro. The previous pro putting two xeon quads in it was ridiculous to me, considering the uses a mac is typically subject to. You broke it down logically though and for me I am a little more at peace with mac. I still won't want one, because I know enough to know it is still a rip off for me, but their not as big of a rip-off as they were.

Edit: I was thinking about the pro actually with that 2 xeon thing, a big rip-off to me. imac isn't as bad though.

newtekie1I didn't support Microsoft. I buy their products only because I have to. We aren't talking about Microsoft and DX10 here, that is an entirely different topic, AKA off topic here. We aren't talking about Microsoft, we are talking about Apple.

You are right, no one would buy iMacs if OSX worked on every PC. Which brings me back to my point. Apple locking their OS to only their hardware is a scam to over-charge for their hardware. If they released their OS for every PC it would force them to to actually be competitive on their hardware prices, which is a good thing, not a bad thing.

Lets review: Competition=GOOD

How is that hard to understand and how can you make the argument against it?:banghead:

exactly.

capitalism. hate it. love it. now STFU AND LIVE WITH IT. lol .

@lemonade soda: I love how in every post you say Apple mice don't have two buttons, yet they do!

Touch-sensitive top shell
It looks and feels like a sleek one-button mouse, but Mighty Mouse's smooth top shell hides a powerful secret: touch-sensitive technology under the shell detects which part of the mouse you're clicking, so you can both left-click and right-click. And if you prefer the simplicity of a classic one-button mouse, Mighty Mouse is up to the task. Just use the Mac OS X system preference pane to configure it how you want.

store.apple.com/us/product/MB112LL/A?fnode=home/shop_mac/mac_accessories/mice_keyboards&mco=NzUwOTc

You might not be able to see it, but it's their. Not saying I own one (I personally use a Razor mouse) however it is false information that you have continued to post.

Lol DX10 will never be released to other OSes. MS is a company that locks is partners and customers into their OS. How do you think they make money? Everything they have ever made that will make them profit is proprietary. (activex, dx, codecs, ect ect...)

newtechie, Mac hardware is not overpriced. (Except maybe their laptops.) You have no basis for those claims. Their pricing is in line with, or better than other OEMs, which should be the basis of comparison, not what kind of system you can build for the money, which still doesn't include the iMac's formfactor, which whether you want to admit it or not, is a feature. The MacPros are even relatively cheap compared to building your own system with the same parts and specs.

And, although I would love it, OS X will never be released for a standard PC. The biggest reason isn't for Apple to sell their hardware, the biggest reason is support costs. Why do you think OS X is so stable? Because it's written around a specific set of hardware options. Most instability issues that arise in Windows are due to improperly supported hardware, something OS X doesn't have to deal with, for the most part.

"The stupid mouse only has one button"
"That's what you think, look again"

Then I step in.
"oh, look at that, Apple is at it again with their inability to make things easy to recognize."

Necrofire"The stupid mouse only has one button"
"That's what you think, look again"

Then I step in.
"oh, look at that, Apple is at it again with their inability to make things easy to recognize."

I guess it isn't easy for people who don't do their homework, and then just mindlessly post about products they have no idea about!

doesn't the mac mouse have 3 buttons/zones? cause if you click in the middle(scroll ball), it does dashboard, and then theres left button and right button

panchomandoesn't the mac mouse have 3 buttons/zones? cause if you click in the middle(scroll ball), it does dashboard, and then theres left button and right button

The middle button is actually the scroll ball. There are 2 buttons on the very sides of the unit as well. Total of 5 buttons and the scrolly ball thingy. lol.

Wile Enewtechie, Mac hardware is not overpriced. (Except maybe their laptops.) You have no basis for those claims. Their pricing is in line with, or better than other OEMs, which should be the basis of comparison, not what kind of system you can build for the money, which still doesn't include the iMac's formfactor, which whether you want to admit it or not, is a feature. The MacPros are even relatively cheap compared to building your own system with the same parts and specs.

And, although I would love it, OS X will never be released for a standard PC. The biggest reason isn't for Apple to sell their hardware, the biggest reason is support costs. Why do you think OS X is so stable? Because it's written around a specific set of hardware options. Most instability issues that arise in Windows are due to improperly supported hardware, something OS X doesn't have to deal with, for the most part.

Yes, it is overpriced. I have plenty of basis for those claims, and have shown you that basis.

If I was to build the machine myself it would be SUGNIFICANTLY cheaper, in fact if I match the specs to the $2,200 24" model including a 24" LCD it would only cost me $1,200. That's $1,000 less for the same hardware.

And I have already told you that even with a pre-built, the cost is $400+ less than the $2,200 model AND it is better hardware.

If the iMac form factor is important to you, you are an idiot. Plain and simple. If you are toting your 24" iMac around everywhere with you, which is the only reason you would need that form factor, you are an idiot. It is just a way for people to justify over-pay for the hardware. They don't want to admit they were suckered into paying $400+ more for the hardware just for the OS.

The support issues would be higher, just like Windows. But perhaps that is what the OS needs. Perhaps they need to raise themselves up to the level of Windows. There are benefits to not forcing people to buy your overpriced hardware. For example, more poeple will be installing your OS, it will become more popular, and hence will have more 3rd party support. I would love to see that. Yes, there would be more problems with the OS dealing with different hardware configurations, but I have full confidence that Apple can handle it. And all the people saying the OS is the best OS ever shouldn't have to worry about it, after all it never crashes, so it wouldn't even be a problem anyway.:D

newtekie1Yes, it is overpriced. I have plenty of basis for those claims, and have shown you that basis.

If I was to build the machine myself it would be SUGNIFICANTLY cheaper, in fact if I match the specs to the $2,200 24" model including a 24" LCD it would only cost me $1,200. That's $1,000 less for the same hardware.

And I have already told you that even with a pre-built, the cost is $400+ less than the $2,200 model AND it is better hardware.

If the iMac form factor is important to you, you are an idiot. Plain and simple. If you are toting your 24" iMac around everywhere with you, which is the only reason you would need that form factor, you are an idiot. It is just a way for people to justify over-pay for the hardware. They don't want to admit they were suckered into paying $400+ more for the hardware just for the OS.

The support issues would be higher, just like Windows. But perhaps that is what the OS needs. Perhaps they need to raise themselves up to the level of Windows. There are benefits to not forcing people to buy your overpriced hardware. For example, more poeple will be installing your OS, it will become more popular, and hence will have more 3rd party support. I would love to see that. Yes, there would be more problems with the OS dealing with different hardware configurations, but I have full confidence that Apple can handle it. And all the people saying the OS is the best OS ever shouldn't have to worry about it, after all it never crashes, so it wouldn't even be a problem anyway.:D

I'm not gonna argue with you newtekie. The formfactor IS a feature, one that you can't replicate building it yourself, so your comparison is null and void, as it compares apples to oranges. At the time of purchase, an all-in-one was needed for me, due to lack of space. If that makes me an idiot, I don't know what to say. Post reported.

I'm sorry what do you mean by formfactor? Completely built? Aside from the case and motherboard (which uses the same intel chipsets I believe), what is different about the hardware?

farlex85I'm sorry what do you mean by formfactor? Completely built? Aside from the case and motherboard (which uses the same intel chipsets I believe), what is different about the hardware?

The whole computer is "in" the monitor. There is no tower.

Man I keep thinking of the pro, I c now.

farlex85I'm sorry what do you mean by formfactor? Completely built? Aside from the case and motherboard (which uses the same intel chipsets I believe), what is different about the hardware?

thats the whole system... no box or anything

now im still waiting for the next imac..

^Those look like artists' impressions, not a working prototype. :twitch:

Wait a minute. Did they just say 8800 GS and 512MB memory? :wtf:

Technically, a 8800 GS can hold 384MB (64MB * 6) / 768MB (128MB * 6 or 64MB *12 (six banks front + six banks back of the PCB)).

its apple edition.

These do indeed look pretty nice, and for what they are I agree they are not necessarily overpriced. Now they just need to make pro cost-effective and reasonable, and cut this silly superior advertising campaign, and I will be an avid proponent for the mac. I already got the pod.....

btarunr^Those look like artists' impressions, not a working prototype. :twitch:

Wait a minute. Did they just say 8800 GS and 512MB memory? :wtf:

Technically, a 8800 GS can hold 384MB (64MB * 6) / 768MB (128MB * 6 or 64MB *12 (six banks front + six banks back of the PCB)).

i believe those pics are apple's concept art for the next imac generation.

Wile EI'm not gonna argue with you newtekie. The formfactor IS a feature, one that you can't replicate building it yourself, so your comparison is null and void, as it compares apples to oranges. At the time of purchase, an all-in-one was needed for me, due to lack of space. If that makes me an idiot, I don't know what to say. Post reported.

You guys need to take a step back and look at what you're arguing about. Both of you have a valid point, and you're essentially agreeing with eachother, it is just you're too stubborn to acknowledge it. The all-in-one form factor is definitely a feature, although it is not a feature you get to choose, so that somewhat negates the "feature" aspect. Most people that buy a PC are looking for either a laptop or a regular desktop tower. When people are confronted by the all-in-one systems from Dell or Gateway, etc, they are driven away mainly because of the price, which is why manufacturers haven't put that much energy into developing them. Of course, this trend IS beginning to change, but people buying computers in the PC market have a LOT more to choose from, so trying to get them to spend hundreds and hundreds of dollars more for the same performance is difficult. With about everyone hurting financially right now, that makes it even harder to sell an all-in-one system.

This brings up my point. The people that want and need an all-in-one formfactor are going to spend the extra money for it (like you Wile E), since that is a feature they definitely want. This is where the whole "scam" regarding iMacs comes in. The iMac for it's size and features is actually reasonably priced. The problem is there isn't any middle ground like there is in "PC land". If someone wants a desktop tower (more performance for the $, able to upgrade easier, etc.), then if they want to legally use OS X they have to fork out over $2,000 for the Mac Pro. For a regular PC, you have all kinds of choices ranging from building your own, customizing one from Dell, or choosing from the hundreds of pre-built configurations running through all price ranges. THIS is where the problem lies. There's absolutely no choice for these kinds of people (the people newtekie is referring to) but to fork it over for something they might not necessarily want or need. If Apple can go ahead an affordable, "boring" desktop tower, I don't think many people would have a problem. Of course, the ultimate solution would be for them to open up OSX for the rest of PC's... like that will happen :laugh:

All you guys better stop arguing before I call a mod in here to fix your attitudes up. I'm sick of this Mac vs Prebuilt PC bullshit that keeps popping up in every Mac thread. Yes, the Mac runs off a different OS that won't run properly on a PC, and that makes it different.

Stop complaining/arguing; the point of this thread is to comment on the article that was posted, not have your great debates here so please, take it somewhere else, most preferably off forum.

At the end of the day, Macs and PC's are ALL very well built machines.
Its the user that defines whether the machine is up to spec or not, thats just how it goes.

tkpenalty is right. Let's stay on topic.

Either way, I do like this new model. It is the first mid-range model from Apple that is powerful enough to suit my needs. I still wish there was something between it and the Mac Pro upgradability and performance-wise, but what ya gonna do?