eidairaman1just more money out of asus pocket, im pretty sure that there are many more who buy asus over gigabyte because of the marketing the asus gets, I had a run in with asus years ago, P4S8X to be exact and i ended up switching over to AMD with a MSI board because i had to do so much to the P4S8X to get it stable with the video card i had, yet with the MSI board i had to do nothing, i swore to not buy a Asus board again, im sort of wary of Gigabyte, because i dont hear much about overclocking as i do with the Asus and DFI boards.

I've done 3.8ghz on my E6750 on air on my Gigabyte mATX board. :laugh:

PrudentPrincessWhat if Gigabyte won? :laugh:

Thats very likely as Gigabyte could easily turn the case against ASUS, with the amount of somewhat illegal marketing practises that they do :shadedshu

Btw... Gigabyte made people rethink where the MATX boards lie to enthusiasts :laugh:

As I said do not judge a company on their performance of something that was more than half a decade ago. Most companies like ASUS, gigabyte etcetera now offer entirely different product quality (higher), in contrast to a few years ago. See the first LGA775 Gigabyte boards were crap. Now? They are good. Same can be said for ASUS, both manufacturers using the normal choke beads, and electrolytic capacitors. They don't do that today much. To put it simply, a few years ago boards were blowing up everywhere. It doesnt mean they do now.

PrudentPrincessI've done 3.8ghz on my E6750 on air on my Gigabyte mATX board. :laugh:

MATX... doesnt really mean crappier performance lol. G33 is a GMA + P35 anyway...

tkpenaltyGuys, people like PVTCaboose1337 echo75 and jonmcc33. Please explain the hate behind Gigabyte. It sounds like a case of "I haven't used their products yet" or such and such exploded 5 years ago which sound pretty stupid.

Hate? Who said I hated their products? I picked those Asus boards based upon needs or reviews.

The A7V133 I replaced with an A7V8X because I got a Radeon 9700 Pro and it didn't like working in the A7V133 for whatever reason, besides the fact it was an old chipset. I needed something ASAP and the A7V8X had just came out and had an AGP 8X slot.

I upgraded to the P4S800D-E because of this review: www.anandtech.com/showdoc.aspx?i=1930

I was doing serious video encoding at the time and needed to make the switch. Ironically it was paired against a Gigabyte board in the review. I liked how well the SiS 655TX chipset did.

I then went with the A8R-MVP based upon switching to an AMD dual core and wanting the option of Crossfire. This review sold me: www.anandtech.com/mb/showdoc.aspx?i=2617

That was mainly because of the ULi M1575 southbridge performance compared to everything else. It was a solid board, quite outstanding until I killed it.

I grabbed an A8N32-SLI open box from NewEgg because S939 boards weren't really available anymore and it was like $80 for a premium board. I got the I/O bracket from Asus' website afterwards.

The Abit IP35-E I got because it was P35 and $65 after MIR. I know many were getting Gigabyte's board at the time but it wasn't cheap enough and the IP35-E has impressed everyone that owns it. I knew many people on forums that came back with defective Gigabyte P35 motherboards later on.

I don't know. Not hating on Gigabyte but they just haven't given me a reason to upgrade to their product.

jonmcc33Hate? Who said I hated their products? I picked those Asus boards based upon needs or reviews.

The A7V133 I replaced with an A7V8X because I got a Radeon 9700 Pro and it didn't like working in the A7V133 for whatever reason, besides the fact it was an old chipset. I needed something ASAP and the A7V8X had just came out and had an AGP 8X slot.

I upgraded to the P4S800D-E because of this review: www.anandtech.com/showdoc.aspx?i=1930

I was doing serious video encoding at the time and needed to make the switch. Ironically it was paired against a Gigabyte board in the review. I liked how well the SiS 655TX chipset did.

I then went with the A8R-MVP based upon switching to an AMD dual core and wanting the option of Crossfire. This review sold me: www.anandtech.com/mb/showdoc.aspx?i=2617

That was mainly because of the ULi M1575 southbridge performance compared to everything else. It was a solid board, quite outstanding until I killed it.

I grabbed an A8N32-SLI open box from NewEgg because S939 boards weren't really available anymore and it was like $80 for a premium board. I got the I/O bracket from Asus' website afterwards.

The Abit IP35-E I got because it was P35 and $65 after MIR. I know many were getting Gigabyte's board at the time but it wasn't cheap enough and the IP35-E has impressed everyone that owns it. I knew many people on forums that came back with defective Gigabyte P35 motherboards later on.

I don't know. Not hating on Gigabyte but they just haven't given me a reason to upgrade to their product.

You still don't label people who oppose ASUS in this case "Gigabyte fanatics"... That was my point.

Black HadesOook. Now 1st of all.. that is not true... I dont know what forums you visit regularly. But except for a handful of bickering guys who think they know a lot about hardware I see nobody complaining about quallity issues with Asus products.

I work at a PC service in Romania and I can tell you for a fact that Asus boards are the last ones that crap out on my clients. In fact if I where to make a statistic most ppl go for Asus.

Most ppl's pc's crap out because of cheap and/or inadequate PSU's. they think that "expensive ones" are an unjustified extravangance no matter how much I try to persuade them about efficiency, stabillity and PFC..:ohwell:

Also low end motherboards tend to be less stable and durable regardless of brand.

oh i have definately seen quality issues with asus boards. supported hardware that barely works, choosing cheap onboard GIGA NIC's that dont have working drivers, or at the very least have severe dropouts and problems, i even have a thread on here about a mid-range asus board that mysteriously had its PCI-E 16x slot die off.

BOTH brands, if you buy anything other than their top products, will probably suck ass. They cut corners except on the most expensive lines, and even there (many reports of blown capes on the asus P5K-E when using phase change cooling, some of the solid state caps just massively explode)

asus made a BS claim that the EPU was a hardware device that saved upto 96% power. All they have, is intel speedstep (EIST) and C1E power supoprt. those are years old technology, and everyone has them - unless you're using a 1MB PCI video card, all onboard features and a prescott, i dont see how thats remotely possible. gigabyte actually do have a hardware solution, that DOES work better and they only claim real numbers.

The original claim they made was correct - AND ASUS NEVER COUNTERED IT. Their 'reply' was all about their latest line of products, and didnt answer a single complaint gigabyte made.

this thread isnt about which company is better, BOTH companies have had some real failures (giga have a lot of dying P35 boards, asus had a shit run with NF5/6) - this thread is about the EPU claims, power saving claims, and dodgy capacitors.

Publicity!

Publicity! Publicity! Publicity! ... Need I say more!! :pimp:

i think its funny to see comanys act like 6 year old kids

ill have to say myself i am a Gigabyte men myself
i have bought 2 asus boards had problems with both first one was a A8N32-SLI Deluxe that would not run stable i could load windows XP after a week all it would do is blue screen after 3 to for day so i switch to a DFI UT Expert board ran great for 2 years

then i desided to upgrade again i gave asus another chance bought a Asus 680I striker extreme not ran good for 2 weeks at a time had to reload windows this time vista
i said what luck asus did it to me again

so i bought a Gigabyte-GA-N680SLI-DQ6 what a dream board now for me ill never buy another Asus board again

i have friends that have asus board with no problem so im not saying there all bad there just not for me

and in closing i say this to both Asus & Gigabyte

i buy intel extreme chip & a 1000 watt PSU & 2 G-Force 8800GTX and have 6 hard drive running in raid

i dont want some motherboard to reduce my power i built this thing to kick ass and prefrom well and to play game like there no tomarrow so who biults a machine like that to have the motherbroad to save energe not me
Gigabyte give hell !! i with you

Musselsoh i have definately seen quality issues with asus boards. supported hardware that barely works, choosing cheap onboard GIGA NIC's that dont have working drivers, [...]

BOTH brands, if you buy anything other than their top products, will probably suck ass. They cut corners except on the most expensive lines, and even there (many reports of blown capes on the asus P5K-E when using phase change cooling, some of the solid state caps just massively explode)

[...]

The original claim they made was correct - AND ASUS NEVER COUNTERED IT. Their 'reply' was all about their latest line of products, and didnt answer a single complaint gigabyte made.

this thread isnt about which company is better, BOTH companies have had some real failures (giga have a lot of dying P35 boards, asus had a shit run with NF5/6) - this thread is about the EPU claims, power saving claims, and dodgy capacitors.

All manufacturers tend to skimp out and deliver "tolerable performance" for their low /low-mid range products, but those are targeted mostly at ppl whom use their pc's for trivial stuf like browsing, spreasheets and casual gaming.

But in some cases mid range boards (Example: Gigabyte EP35-DS4) are excelent pieces of hardware that can even hold a decent OC as I've seen in many cases... hell even the GA-EX38-DS4 is cheap enough these days to be considered mid range even though it has the x38 chipset..

With this being said I promise I'll derail the topic no more.:)

Sorry leonard, but I can't understand a thing you're trying to say. And TK, since Asus is filing a civil suit ( suit for money and damages ) they do not have to prove beyond doubt that Gigabyte was wrong in what they said, they only have to provide 50.000(infinite 0's)1% of the evidence in the case to win. Also, if Asus doesn't win, Gigabyte recieves nothing anyway, and Asus will merely lose a few dollars on lawyers fees and court fees. Although, if Gigabyte does not respond to the written documentation of suit being files against them within a certain time frame, they automatically lose the case and are accountable for all court and lawyer fees, as well as damages asked for by Asus. I enjoyed law classes. :)

Just for the hell of it, I've had more BFG and PNY products die on me than Asus and Gigabyte combined. I've never had a blown capacitor on a mobo, and I don't have a constant flow of liquid nitrogen to run phase change, so I HIGHLY doubt these symptoms affect more than 5% of actual users. And yes, I PREFER Asus boards over GB, simply because of past experiences and trials.

Was stupid in the first place to accuse Asus of being inferior then Gigabyte - i like both brands and boths boards.

I am wondering what type of Gigabyte employees pull something like this off because it would lead to a lawsuite for sure..

LaurijanWas stupid in the first place to accuse Asus of being inferior then Gigabyte - i like both brands and boths boards.

I am wondering what type of Gigabyte employees pull something like this off because it would lead to a lawsuite for sure..

Maybe ASUS spies pretending to be the PR/research team of gigabyte who do this so that Gigabyte loses money :pimp:



Okay that was a joke :slap:

It was only a matter of time before ASUS sued!

Bluefox1115 it's not that simple as you say.If gigabyte wins they win nothing from asus just a lot of customers that will switch and parteners of asus because no one wants to deal with a company that lost a lawsuit for having a wrongly advertised product and a bad one for some people.
So they get some publicity every tech website will post the battle results they will bash asus and i think it's enough for gigabyte they'r stock price will rise :).
And don't worry about what gigabyte does with the lawsuit i think the hundreds of lawyers they have can come up with something.
Asus should've shut up if they knew they are wrong making this lawsuit only worsen the thing and if gigabyte is smart after they win they should rub this in they'r face even more reduce them to nothing.
Still Asus makes some pretty cool things like that EEEPC.

saw this lawsuit coming a mile away - sure ASUS started the whole fiasco, but they didn't resort to quesitoning GIGA's build quality, nor using incorrect pics to validify their claims.


As of now, of the defamatory claim, ASUS could easily win that

Fals accusations will be a lot harder for them to validate - but I think it's possible; like I mentioned in the other threads, ASUS EPU isn't as efficient by itself compared to GIGA's DES, but when combined with the energy efficiency options of the CPU, and the fact that EPU can turn off spare HDDs that have idle for an extended period, I can see where they can come up with the figure "up to 86%"

On top of that, ASUS even demonstrated that in response to one of GIGA's counter claims.



But, anyhow, to not miss the point - ASUS did start this squabble, and it was petty to begin with . . . this issue is no longer about who's solution works best, but the fact that GIGA hit below the belt trying to discredit ASUS.

tkpenaltyYou still don't label people who oppose ASUS in this case "Gigabyte fanatics"... That was my point.

Oh, I never did that. I'm talking about the actual Gigabyte fanatics that have posted in this thread. Those that toot their own horn you know?

I'm not an Asus fanatic by any means. I've owned a lot of their motherboards and even a couple video cards. Never had problems. But I've owned a Shuttle, MSI, ECS and Abit motherboard too.

So no fanaticism on my part. I just have no reason to buy a Gigabyte product. They need to entice me and just never have.

Come on people gigabyte and asus fans ? i would like to see that but can;t happen it's not like they invent new cool things like Nvidia , AMD , Intel ..etc. they just take the essencial piece from these great companys and others and does what tens of companys does like foxconn,abit,dfi ..... and they keep poping up new companys because it's not that hard like inventing a new generation of cpu's or GPU's they just integrate the smart stuff they get from others.
They would be nothing without intel,amd,nvidia and for that they are of little consequence for everyone if they would dissapear one day there are still more who can produce these things.
I would compare them to a cigarette store no problem if one dissapears there are hunderds more to choose from.

leonard_222003Come on people gigabyte and asus fans ? i would like to see that but can;t happen it's not like they invent new cool things like Nvidia , AMD , Intel ..etc. they just take the essencial piece from these great companys and others and does what tens of companys does like foxconn,abit,dfi ..... and they keep poping up new companys because it's not that hard like inventing a new generation of cpu's or GPU's they just integrate the smart stuff they get from others.
They would be nothing without intel,amd,nvidia and for that they are of little consequence for everyone if they would dissapear one day there are still more who can produce these things.
I would compare them to a cigarette store no problem if one dissapears there are hunderds more to choose from.

You're not aware of brand reputation? The same thing exists with cigarettes I am sure (although that's a disgusting comparison to use). It's the same for cars, fast food chains and retail stores.

It's the reason I will never eat Wendy's ever again. Had a single VERY bad experience with the food there about 8 years ago and I'll never eat there again. The same for The Olive Garden restaurant.

Anyway, don't mix Intel, AMD and nVIDIA with motherboard manufacturers because those companies actually make the chipsets. Once the motherboard manufacturer gets those they are the ones that create the product. They design the motherboard from the ground up. So it's really up to them on how good of a product they make.

jonmcc33You're not aware of brand reputation? The same thing exists with cigarettes I am sure (although that's a disgusting comparison to use). It's the same for cars, fast food chains and retail stores.

It's the reason I will never eat Wendy's ever again. Had a single VERY bad experience with the food there about 8 years ago and I'll never eat there again. The same for The Olive Garden restaurant.

Anyway, don't mix Intel, AMD and nVIDIA with motherboard manufacturers because those companies actually make the chipsets. Once the motherboard manufacturer gets those they are the ones that create the product. They design the motherboard from the ground up. So it's really up to them on how good of a product they make.

agreed

the only problem most users have from the 1337-range of motherboards is flaky BIOS versions, which is more of a problem with boards that are fairly new to the market. After a few BIOS revisions, many of the issues are out of the way.

When it boils down to it, though, ASUS and GIGA are the only two at the same competing level with top-shelf motherboards, and TBH, ASUS does lead in this regard. GIGA has caught up immensely over the last few years, but without more competition at this level, boards are extremelly overpriced, and you get incidents like this between two companies. These two companies don't really have any other manufacturer to worry about, because their reputation alone sells their products. Without pressure from other companies, they'll just continue to nitpick at each other over very trivial points.

I've used motherboards from most of the major players in the arena, but I stick with ASUS boards - I've never personally had one fail, and they've been consistently reliable, stable, and OC extremelly well (once you understand all the "fluff" settings ASUS loves throwing in their BIOS). Honestly, I wouldn't trust other boards to the punishement I dish out from time to time; and until I start to see build quality dropping, or ASUS cutting corners with their high-end boards, I'll stay ASUS loyal.



on topic, though, I still think ASUS shouldn't have started this whole mess, as there wasn't much of a point, really . . . but GIGA screwed up with their claims and images they circulated.

And, I'm willing to bet, GIGA will come up with some way to counter this - perhaps with a countersuit. The nitpicking isn't over with, yet, mark my words.

id like to See ECS, Biostar, and Epox release something Worthwhile in the Top End.

You do know EPoX went bust, right?
ECS.... don't make me laugh...
And Biostar is a two bit tiny little company that just doesn't seem to be able to get any bigger.
DFI might have a chance if they'd use their brains and realise that there are more people out there than the 0.001% they target at the moment.
Abit is likely to have big problems this year and they're going entry level anyhow.
MSI, well, they're not paying attention at all, they've said that their goal for this year is to copy Asus and Gigabyte.
So who does that leave? Foxconn? Good luck...
Albatron, well, they're just too small again.
I miss the days when the compeition was full of companies, I miss the inventiveness of compnaies like AOpen and Chaintech, but I guess we won't see these companies returning.
Anyhow, this is way off topic.

Whatever happens in this case, the end users are not going to be the winners, that's all I know.

TheLostSwedeYou do know EPoX went bust, right?
ECS.... don't make me laugh...
And Biostar is a two bit tiny little company that just doesn't seem to be able to get any bigger.
DFI might have a chance if they'd use their brains and realise that there are more people out there than the 0.001% they target at the moment.
Abit is likely to have big problems this year and they're going entry level anyhow.
MSI, well, they're not paying attention at all, they've said that their goal for this year is to copy Asus and Gigabyte.
So who does that leave? Foxconn? Good luck...
Albatron, well, they're just too small again.
I miss the days when the compeition was full of companies, I miss the inventiveness of compnaies like AOpen and Chaintech, but I guess we won't see these companies returning.
Anyhow, this is way off topic.

Whatever happens in this case, the end users are not going to be the winners, that's all I know.

for al augh, my asus boards came with foxconn IDE and SATA cables. foxconn are hiding everywhere!

TheLostSwedeDFI might have a chance if they'd use their brains and realise that there are more people out there than the 0.001% they target at the moment.

DFI actually makes some great products and if it weren't for the price I would have gotten their P35 BloodIron board.

TheLostSwedeAbit is likely to have big problems this year and they're going entry level anyhow.

They are making monster gains with their sales lately. Their IP35 series motherboards have been an instant hit. The IP35-E was in such a demand that after they discontinued it they had to start making it again.

The IP35-Pro got huge recommendations: www.anandtech.com/mb/showdoc.aspx?i=3142

They still have that deal to put out Fatal1ty branded products which helps keep sales up (not that I'd ever buy one myself). They were one of the first motherboard manufacturers to use heatpipes on motherboards for cooling as well, OTES as they call it.

Lastly, the $200 IX38 Quad GT is hardly "entry level". :p

craigwhitesideoh noes!

everybody's kung fu fighting!

www.youtube.com/watch?v=A1HkjZdBeo4

www.metacafe.com/watch/383392/dragon_ball_z_dbz_kung_fu_fighting_music_videos/

Bluefox1115Haha. Stupid Gigabyte. Everything I've ever owned made by them was crap, and everything from Asus has been like a dream. Serves Gigabyte right for slandering a competitor with false information.

i worked in a shop for years that was about 50% gb boards used in builds/upgrades, at one point we totaly dumped them because the quility and support went to shit, its still not as good as it once was, stilll have had more issues dealing with asus, asus has their own brand of "support" if you report a spicific problem with a board, one thats non critical(board still posts) then you WILL get the SAME BOARD BACK, they will clean it up, stick it in a box and ship it back.
videocards support has been excelent for me though.

leonard_222003I on the contrary everything i owned and friends too from Asus has been the worst hardware ever faulty from factory or got faulty along the way sometimes pretty fast 1 month and dead and this applies for video cards and motherboards i don't know about other things Asus does how does it hold in time.
It's funny but even online sites sell everything from gainward,evga,gigabyte...etc. but they always get stuck with some asus videocards wich no one wants to buy because they are both more expensive and have a very bad reputation for being faulty or getting faulty but this is not the case here because we talk about motherboards still very strange at least in my country.
The most frequented forums in my country (romania) talk very badly about Asus products and are avoided like plague i'm suprised there are happy people here but it must depend on country maybe we get the bad stuff from asus i don't know.
I have 1 gigabyte motherboard and 1 video card from them and had a lot of them in the past and had no problems but for my gaming machine i use DFI motherboard wich uses quality components for long before gigabyte and asus raised the bar.
In my opinion Asus is a scam with the marketing hype and always been and gigabyte has a good claim here except for the most expensive motherboards asus has the rest are questionable in terms of quality from my experience and what i've read on forums.
They wil loose the lawsuit and gigabyte will rubb it in they'r face even more unless asus can bankrupt them but i don't think they can.

yeah, acctualy i know some romanians and they all say that the boards have a bad rep on romanian tech forums, and as such they wont use them even after they moved to the states(many still visit the romanian forums because they feel more at home.....)

newtekie1Gigabyte has no good claim here, they are just as gualty as ASUS, all this is is marketting hype for Gigabyte. ASUS boards are very well built, I've only had one fail on me, and I have used ASUS boards for years. The best part is their customer service is great, unlike Gigabyte which has refused my an RMA multiple times in the past on the first try.

Both companies put out quality boards, but I refuse to do any business with Gigabyte because they are just not a reputable company. They have a great product, but the company itself is shit. This situation is a perfect example. There is the mature way to provide the information and the immature way. Gigabyte, as usually, chose the immature way.

then u been lucky, i have worked at 6+ shops where asus boards where far from the most reliable choices, and im not talking about just the low end boards most of the boards we used where mid range stuff, on some lines of boards we had more returnes of asus and gb boards then we had of ECS/pcchips boards, dispite selling fare more of spcific models of ecs/pcchips boards(sis chipsets rock on ecs/pcchips boards)

Black HadesOook. Now 1st of all.. that is not true... I dont know what forums you visit regularly. But except for a handful of bickering guys who think they know a lot about hardware I see nobody complaining about quallity issues with Asus products.

I work at a PC service in Romania and I can tell you for a fact that Asus boards are the last ones that crap out on my clients. In fact if I where to make a statistic most ppl go for Asus.

Most ppl's pc's crap out because of cheap and/or inadequate PSU's. they think that "expensive ones" are an unjustified extravangance no matter how much I try to persuade them about efficiency, stabillity and PFC..:ohwell:

Also low end motherboards tend to be less stable and durable regardless of brand.

first your psu point is a true and very valid one, but your "asus rocks" and claiming that everybody in romania loves them, well see above, i know a good number of romanians from my many years as an online gamer, never once have any of them had a kind word about asus.....

tkpenaltyThats very likely as Gigabyte could easily turn the case against ASUS, with the amount of somewhat illegal marketing practises that they do :shadedshu

Btw... Gigabyte made people rethink where the MATX boards lie to enthusiasts :laugh:

As I said do not judge a company on their performance of something that was more than half a decade ago. Most companies like ASUS, gigabyte etcetera now offer entirely different product quality (higher), in contrast to a few years ago. See the first LGA775 Gigabyte boards were crap. Now? They are good. Same can be said for ASUS, both manufacturers using the normal choke beads, and electrolytic capacitors. They don't do that today much. To put it simply, a few years ago boards were blowing up everywhere. It doesnt mean they do now.



MATX... doesnt really mean crappier performance lol. G33 is a GMA + P35 anyway...

this may be true for intel systems, for amd systems it was biostars tseirse matx boards that got alot of overclockers attention, great prices, insain ammount of bios tweak options, good/great hardware used to build them.

check out reviews of matx biostar tseirse boards, u will be suprised.

eidairaman1id like to See ECS, Biostar, and Epox release something Worthwhile in the Top End.

biostar has some nice "top end" boards, check out their ddr3 775 board, i got a buddy whos using one(got the ram free from a memory maker rep, they want to sell his company alot of ram for server builds and upgrades....so they kiss alot of ass) he got the board when he went to neweggs store in cali(was on buisness trip) and saw one of them on the counter all messed up (somebody had sat on the box then tryed to return it as "doa" rofl.) well he asked to see an un-damnaged one, and since he really liked his tforce 590sli(thanks to my eurging) he tryed it, hes loving it, 3.9 on his quadcore with a freezer7.....not bad since hes still learning the ins and outs of intel tweaking in his free time.

TheLostSwedeYou do know EPoX went bust, right?
ECS.... don't make me laugh...
And Biostar is a two bit tiny little company that just doesn't seem to be able to get any bigger.
DFI might have a chance if they'd use their brains and realise that there are more people out there than the 0.001% they target at the moment.
Abit is likely to have big problems this year and they're going entry level anyhow.
MSI, well, they're not paying attention at all, they've said that their goal for this year is to copy Asus and Gigabyte.
So who does that leave? Foxconn? Good luck...
Albatron, well, they're just too small again.
I miss the days when the compeition was full of companies, I miss the inventiveness of compnaies like AOpen and Chaintech, but I guess we won't see these companies returning.
Anyhow, this is way off topic.

Whatever happens in this case, the end users are not going to be the winners, that's all I know.

epox team went and started a new company Supox, im very intrested in their 790fx board, best layout of any 790fx board i have seen yet......wish it was avalable to buy.......


foxconn: they make good boards and have been around forever, they are new in marketing their own motherboards tho, check back in the early days of pc's, many connectors where made by foxconn, and infact foxconns made boards/pcb's for many of the top makers for years.

little note on "to small"

biostar,foxconn,ecs/pcchips, and fic(dont sell their own boards), are top OEM makers of pcb's and even full on boards for companys like gigabyte,asus,dfi, hell jetway even makes boards for some top companys, and i bet at least 1/2 you have never heard their name.....

biostar has made top end boards, just not gotten the reviews they needed to captilize on them, their 570/590 boards for example where/are kickass little units, great extra packege, there top end intel boards gaining a good rep in the "underground" mostly because its not gotten any reviews by high end sites.

biostar makes great boards, and infact has been the OEM behind some of dfi's great "hits" main problem with the dfi boards is that dfi trys to tweak the bios a little to far for that extra bit of bench perf...causing problems with some componants.

and epox is dead, mostly due to poor managment, supox hopefully takes off eventuly, their boards layouts look steller, infact far better then most of the top names stuff......

www.uabit.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=32&Itemid=48&page=1&model=381

www.uabit.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=32&Itemid=48&page=1&model=418

whats the difference beyond the cooler?