SteevoAll that was true in 2001 when XP was released, however with Vista and now Win 7 it runs in a sandbox, and thus is not tied to the the OS, thus also how they can remove it.

So IE is no more of a threat than FF, O, or Safari.

TheMailMan78Until the EU tells them they cant ship OSX with Safari or Quicktime. ;)

TheMailMan78Until the EU tells them they cant ship OSX with Safari or Quicktime. ;)

mdm-adphIt's good that you don't condone it, because you should stop doing it, ASAP.

Most security problems involving IE do not merely involve IE not being updated as needed -- the core nature of the browser is flawed. IE is intermeshed completely with the Windows OS -- security problems with IE can thus affect your entire installation.

It's why it's such an easy vector for viruses -- no amount of patches by Microsoft is going to fix it. When a security problem is found in something like Firefox, most of the time it just affects your browser-based activities -- your cookies could be exposed, or your browser passwords, or something like that. When a security problem is found in IE, the entire OS can be compromised.

What Microsoft needs to do, IMO, is split IE's rendering engine away from the browser to use internally in their OS, and then adopt a new browser engine to use with the external internet.

DrPepperApple aren't monopolizing so they won't get the same treatment :shadedshu I hope they do though, Also wouldn't ubuntu stop using firefox ?

TheMailMan78Neither was Microsoft. Whats good for the goose is good for the gander. All MUST be fair.

newtekie1The EU and people defending the EU's decision are saying that the people that use Microsoft's OSes are forced to use the bundled software, and hence it blocks out the "competition". This is false, plain and simple. No one is forced to use IE or WMP just because they come with the OS. People choose to use them.

newtekie1And using your anology, I wouldn't have a problem with the EU forcing Chevy to remove their cola-despenser, as long as they forced every other car manufacturer to do the same. It isn't fair to force Chevy to remove their cola-depenser while allowing Dodge and Ford to keep their cola-depensers in their new cars.

mdm-adphNo offense, and I'll admit I haven't heard about this, but I wouldn't trust Microsoft's promises of a "sandbox" very far at all. Just the fact that even after you "uninstall" IE from Windows 7 the rendering engine still remains and is part of the operating system means that their promise isn't worth much to me.



Which is coming, eventually. :laugh:

Kitkatseems more of your byast twards ms and LESS of REALITY of how stupid it is. When u want more options u take 3 seconds and download the one you want. Same as tires rims on a car or anything else. What if they all choose one u dont like??? How will you deal doing the SAME thing as if IE were installed already?!?! Antitrust idea was great WHEN THEY STARTED now its rediculas. You dont care cause its MS. I think supporting the WILD nature of Antitrust on behalf of ms byast is "frankly terrible. Just awful."

lemonadesodaI absolutely LOL at this. For "experts" like most users here it isnt a problem. We will keystick an install file. But for MOST CONSUMERS this will be shocking. They wont have the faintest clue what to do.

I bet Apple is ROFLCOPTERING at this. It will certainly boost Apple sales in the EU.

gumptyReally? I have never said that people are "forced" to use IE and I doubt the EU has either. Don't put words in my mouth. The bundling of IE puts them at an unfair advantage in a completely different market. Internet browsers and operating systems are different products remember.
I don't know about your experiences - but nearly every person that I have advised to use a different browser has either not known that alternatives exist, did not know that they would work on their pc or couldn't be bothered finding it, downloading it and installing it. And that is the reality outside our little bubble. We know better - but the general public does not.

gumptyLook at the time and effort involved in fighting this case against MS. The reality is that it would be impossible to apply this law (basically take someone to court) universally and all at the same time. The EU can only do what they can. Once they've finished with MS (assuming MS were to comply fully), then I'm sure the EU would turn their attention to others - but they can't do it all at once. So they started with the case/company that would have the greatest effect. Just like they did with Intel. Imposing fines on the biggest player or worst offender first will discourage the smaller players from behaving the same. If the smaller fish continue to behave badly as well then they'll be next in line.

I'm sorry newtekie, I would like to see this policed universally too, but the reality is that the resources aren't there to police everything all at once.


EDIT: Just for clarity I don't have anything against IE8 either - I just like Firefox better.

SteevoNo it again, really isn't. And the sandbox mode has been tested to be as efficient to warning a user to a threat as is antispyware, antivirus, rootkit prevention, and general malware infections when used properly with UAC.


Add on software, drive by downloads, popup redirects, infected ads, and scripts are all prevented with common sense and the basic system settings. i also use Avast and block many sites that I have found to be dangerous. I have tried to get infected, and the only way I have found is to visit dangerous sites with my security down, then click on the installers, and allow it to run after UAC asks.

mdm-adphAnd there's the problem, right there. :laugh: I hope "common sense" doesn't make up any part of Microsoft's security protection, because it ain't happening.

mtosevnews.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/06/12/1457233

"The European Commission will proceed with its antitrust case against Microsoft regardless of Microsoft's decision to strip IE from Windows 7 in Europe. Europe's top antitrust regulator said the EC would draw up a remedy that allows computer users 'genuine consumer choice,' noting that stripping out IE from Windows 'may potentially be positive,' but 'rather than more choice, Microsoft seems to have chosen to provide less.' Jon von Tetzchner, CEO of Opera, whose complaint to the European Commission at the end of 2007 sparked the initial antitrust investigation, said Microsoft is 'trying to set the remedy itself by stripping out IE. ... Now that Microsoft has acknowledged it has been breaking the law by bundling IE into Windows, the Commission must push ahead with an effective remedy,' he said."

Microsoft in deep shit :D

TheMailMan78So Microsoft folded and is following the "rules" now and the EU is still after them? Greed is all the EU is.

DrPepperThey can't sue them before win7 is sold in the EU with IE!!! That's like suing someone before they've done something then decided not to because it turns out to be illegal.

TheMailMan78Read the post above mine. Screw the EU. Screw them with the power and passion of a thousand camel necks.