This is just my workstation, my gaming rig has a Q9550@3.4, 8GB ram, RAID0 HDDs, and a GTX295.

SihastruDisclaimer: Most of the comments so far are from ATI fan boys, so I will attempt to equalize the scale a little bit, so don't throw any *snappy* comebacks at me... they are not required.

Since there are absolutely no DX11 games out there, and there are DX10 cards that can play almost all current games (except Crysis - which somehow I've managed to play on my GeForce Go 7900GS tucked somewhere in my Inspiron), I don't see why you'll want to rush over and buy expensive ATI/AMD gear.

And if in this tech demo, the GT300 is more powerful then what ATI has to offer, then I really can't see why you won't wait... unless you have ATI stamped on you brain... ATI is making a simple incremental upgrade of their existing technology, essentially upping the number of the SPUs, and doubling the ROPs... a big mistake on ATI's part, the number of ROPs should've been increased ages ago. On the other hand nVidia is changing a lot of things in it's core design, switching from SIMD to MIMD and adding DDR5 (I know ATI has it already, but nVidia will *presumably* have more bandwidth as a result of a wider bus). Their only problem is that they are keeping the monolithic design of the GPU, and this translates into higher production costs then ATI has to deal with.

So when you see an ATI card that performs the same as an nVidia card as the same price, you should know that ATI makes more money then nVidia does. So it is questionable about who is screwing who over. So far nVidia has to cope with very high production costs of the PCB because of wide bus DDR3 implementation, and the presence of the NVIO chip. Hopefully switching to DDR5 will make the PCB a lot simpler and cheaper for nVidia to manufacture and maybe it will have a fighting chance on the price front.

I see people thinking that RV870 will be hard-launched in September. It will be hard launched in December actually, on the 10th. Repeat after me... September paper launch, December = hard launch. Buying at launch always hurts your wallet. You can repeat that 100 times. :)

If you own a GTX275 or a HD4890 or better card, buying into this ATI DX11 hype now will hurt later, when prices drop and there are actually DX11 games worth playing. If you have a GTX260 SLI or a 4870/90 CF setup then you're making the biggest mistake of your life.

If you are made of money, if you have rich parents and they spoil you, if you've inherited a large sum of cache, if the banking system made an error in your favor, ignore what I said and just buy the damn thing, so we can all have benchmarks to compare our hopefully better GT300 cards with.

Take it easy, life is hard, don't just kill me yet, wait 9 months, see how it goes.

Disclaimer: I'm not a fan boy of any product. To allegience yourself with a corporation without getting paid isn't logical to me. I am also not agreeing nor disagreeing with you, just commenting. Anyhoo...

I don't see why you'll want to rush over and buy expensive ATI/AMD gear.

I really don't understand that comment, other than if you are talking about the premium price people will be paying for new gear. Retail price for the RV870 is $299.00 USD. Reasonable price considering it's history. However, you and I both know retail/etail shops are going to be wanting more money from your wallet.

And if in this tech demo, the GT300 is more powerful then what ATI has to offer, then I really can't see why you won't wait...

Price. Unless Nvidia can make these new cards at low cost and sell them at lower prices, their retail prices will be higher. If the do accomplish a card that beats it's competitors and is a good price, I'll be the first to get one. If prices are ridiculous and they produce significantly more performance, but with no reall world diference in terms of game play (80fps vs. 110fps for example), I would rather save my money and get a different card. Hopefully though, like you said the new design with GDDR5 will be cost efficient.

If you are made of money, if you have rich parents and they spoil you, if you've inherited a large sum of cache, if the banking system made an error in your favor, ignore what I said and just buy the damn thing, so we can all have benchmarks to compare our hopefully better GT300 cards with.

Some of us bust our asses for a living and reward ourselves with glorious computer hardware to forget about our toils. ;)

ATi cards will be on retail shelves by October 22nd btw. This has been verified from ATi and manufacturers in several news posts. Now, I hope Nvidia gets their cards out soon. The sooner the better.

I know that US citizens (and maybe Canada citizens) will have the chance to buy these cards at the suggested 300$ MRSP. But for Europeans, like myself, I'm expecting at least 300 Euro + VAT. Depending on what country you live in, VAT can be lower or higher (19% for me). Then the distributor/retailer has to make some money, so he will add a little something on top of that. So you can see my pain, when I have to pay up to 400 Euros for a 300 USD piece of plastic? And 1 Euro goes for more then 1.4 USD at this time.

I think I'll buy 5870 because my current graphics card is too old and I'm sure I will get more advantage with that card. ATi is more reasonable with the price than nvidia....And you'll see many of DX11's games like Dirt 2, Grid 2, F1 2010, Lost Planet, Crysis 2, Battlefield. I have a feeling now that ATi will be the king with the DX11 graphics card...Nvidia is always overpriced for me

I don't know what to say really.... I am an AMD / Nvidia user.:p I wish the best for both companies.

Sihastru, thanks for the humorous post :toast:

The DAAMIT cards will be out in October though, and there's someone I need to pass that 9800 to, so...

[I.R.A]_FBidemos with no products suck ass

Yeah, but they will have graphs! In bright exciting colors!! Probably something similar to this:



As you can see the cards will definitely be fast... Probably... We can't say for sure though....

MistralSihastru, thanks for the humorous post :toast:

The DAAMIT cards will be out in October though, and there's someone I need to pass that 9800 to, so...

NP :) It was my intention.

Yes, a G92 or any ATI card that's lower then 4870 may warrant an upgrade. Even to an RV870 card.

Even if the products are not here yet, we'll have a rough idea about the performance, so I don't see the harm. Maybe it is just fear in disguise.

SihastruDisclaimer: Most of the comments so far are from ATI fan boys, so I will attempt to equalize the scale a little bit, so don't throw any *snappy* comebacks at me... they are not required.

Since there are absolutely no DX11 games out there, and there are DX10 cards that can play almost all current games (except Crysis - which somehow I've managed to play on my GeForce Go 7900GS tucked somewhere in my Inspiron), I don't see why you'll want to rush over and buy expensive ATI/AMD gear.

Not expensive. It's cheaper than NVIDIA, and powerful at that. People aren't going OMG over DirectX 11, they're going OMG over something that's going to outperform GTX 260 216, GTX 285, and GTX 295, and force NVIDIA to pull down prices. So ATI is doing charity here. That's what people are going OMG about.

SihastruAnd if in this tech demo, the GT300 is more powerful then what ATI has to offer, then I really can't see why you won't wait... unless you have ATI stamped on you brain...

'

If you paid $300 for a GeForce 8800 GTS-512 and don't like the idea of something twice as powerful for half its price, I don't see why you should wait.. unless you have NVIDIA stamped on you brain...

but since you have a GTX295, you could. Since most don't, they needn't.

SihastruSo when you see an ATI card that performs the same as an nVidia card as the same price, you should know that ATI makes more money then nVidia does. So it is questionable about who is screwing who over. So far nVidia has to cope with very high production costs of the PCB because of wide bus DDR3 implementation, and the presence of the NVIO chip. Hopefully switching to DDR5 will make the PCB a lot simpler and cheaper for nVidia to manufacture and maybe it will have a fighting chance on the price front.

It doesn't matter who's making more money over whom. At the end your money is going to them, they are giving you a graphics card, deal done. Play your game at xxx fps you paid $yyy for.

SihastruI see people thinking that RV870 will be hard-launched in September. It will be hard launched in December actually, on the 10th. Repeat after me... September paper launch, December = hard launch. Buying at launch always hurts your wallet. You can repeat that 100 times. :)

Repeat this [insert your value + 1] times: hard launch = available at a store, ready to add in cart, ready to swipe card, ready to take home. And that's way sooner that December 10.

SihastruIf you own a GTX275 or a HD4890 or better card, buying into this ATI DX11 hype now will hurt later, when prices drop and there are actually DX11 games worth playing. If you have a GTX260 SLI or a 4870/90 CF setup then you're making the biggest mistake of your life.

People gave up GeForce 9800 GX2 for Radeon HD 4870 X2. They gave up 9800 GT for HD 4850. They even gave up HD 4870 X2 for GTX 295, and HD 4850 for GTS 250. It's called incremental upgrades. For those graduating from say a 9800 GT, there's no reason why they shouldn't buy this....or wait for GTX 300 series....or wait for Radeon HD 6000 series...or wait for GTX 400 series......

SihastruIf you are made of money, if you have rich parents and they spoil you, if you've inherited a large sum of cache, if the banking system made an error in your favor, ignore what I said and just buy the damn thing, so we can all have benchmarks to compare our hopefully better GT300 cards with.

No. I save $2 a day, so I can buy a $400 card every 6 or so months. Buying high-end hardware every now and then doesn't require being made of money, having rich parents, or an inheritance. All it requires is a hobby....being a computer enthusiast is.

SihastruTake it easy, life is hard, don't just kill me yet, wait 9 months, see how it goes.

Yeah keep waiting.

i actually skip breakfast and lunch for a month or so just so i can save up for a new card. parents arent rich either. being a college student, $100 a month allowance to buy books, food, and supplies isnt a whole lot of cash. you dont gotta have rich parents, an inheritance or be made of money. if you love something, you work hard for it.

erockerSome of us bust our asses for a living and reward ourselves with glorious computer hardware to forget about our toils. ;)

+1000! Well said sir..

No. I save $2 a day, so I can buy a $400 card every 6 or so months

Think i might start doing this

I have to admit I do have a little nVidia logo on my brain, with a tiny PhysX logo on my retina (that hurt like hell :P ). It's only because of some personal experiences with products from both companies, and less because of price or performance.

I fear that with the simple modifications ATI made to these cards, there won't be much OMG! performance wise, and we will have to deal with OMG! marketing DX11 and tesselation. But I'm just guessing, not hoping. As I'm also guessing that that GT300 will be a monster and will outperform this. There is a little hoping too, I admit. Just so I can see some smug smiles wiped from some faces.

It does matter which company makes more money. Because people think ATI is a "good" company that cares about more then your money. There's no such thing. They can afford these prices and much less.

Since I have the bloody GTX295, I think it's safe to say that I am a bit of a video card enthusiast. But a time comes when I don't care about benchmarks as much as I care about games.

In my country the GTX295 costs just 25 Euros more then an HD4870X2... Strange, but what can you do... it's life... So your situation may not be the same as my situation. I am not made of money, but I can afford to buy this new not benchmarked yet ATI card even at 400 Euros. But is it going to make a difference over a GTX295. If it's not going to make a huge 400 Euro difference, then is it a good idea to buy this card? We'll see. Is the GT300 going to make the same difference over the RV870 that the RV870 made on the dual GT200? Then is this difference enough to warrant an upgrage from RV870 to a GT300? We'll see...

Waiting in vain for the next best thing is not what I meant. But RV870 and GT300 are the same generation (or will be). Waiting for the other next generation is not what I am proposing. I am only urging people to maintain a critical eye and consider both options. Even if GT300 is more expensive maybe it will be also more powerful... Who knows... we'll see...

ATI won't invest in new hardware if it can't outperform convincingly. There's a reason why there's no HD 4890 X2. ATI knows DirectX 11 and a bunch of new technologies alone won't be enough to sell HD 5000 series. DirectX 10.1 couldn't. See?

I am hoping this is true. Until now every new card outperformed the card it was replacing two fold. But the numbers don't quite add up, maybe there's something I'm missing or the details that were made public so far are not true.

To be honest, we don't know how fast it's going to be. For the good of even those with "NVIDIA" tattooed or even branded on some part of their bodies, let's hope the new cards are fast(er). So that even they can buy NVIDIA hardware for cheap.

While you guys are buying these.

I will be getting a GTX 260, at my res it should be more then enough for gaming.:)

manufans0607Will you change you're graphics card and buy ATi 5800 series?? You only have 8800GTS and that's an old thing..I bet you will

see...I don't get this, I have an 8800gts 512 OC'd and in my e8600 rig and with everything as it is I can run any game at just about any setting except crysis which with all settings on high except one I think at 1680 x 1020 I never go below 30 fps generally and more often than not it's showing 50-70 in the fraps counter...yes I'd like to upgrade, but truthfully unless I must have anti-aliasing and every setting as high as possible and 2560 x 1600 resolution on everything as I said I can run any current game with great fluidity and at settings that are nothing to be scoffed at. So needing a 295gtx I think is a fallacy and a myth unless perfection is required, and price and heat aren't an issue:). And I'll really laugh if these new cards will keep up with 500$ current cards with less heat, better oc'ing and at a 300'ish dollar price point.

CDdude55While you guys are buying these.

I will be getting a GTX 260, at my res it should be more then enough for gaming.:)

This is sorta the same plan I have...Buy a pair of 4890s when the 5000 series launch (price drop) then grab a pair of 5870s when the GT300 series launch (another price drop)...I think NVidia is a good company, but their cost of production drives their cards out of my price range...The GT300 might be more powerful than the RV870, but when I am gaming will my eyes be able to tell the $$$ difference? I think not...

ATI has provided great bang for buck in recent years, while NVidia only provides the bang if you are willing to part with more bucks...;)

Also, I am a dual card junkie (dual cards make the girls get wet ;)) and lets all face it, CrossfireX scales MUCH better than SLI...Just my opinion.

Give me the GT300 that will romp 5870 and price it at ~$300 and NVidia will probably have a new customer...until then, I will stick with ATI :D

please stop with the ati and nvidia bashing!!!:shadedshu

AltecV1please stop with the ati and nvidia bashing!!!:shadedshu

I don't see any bashing. Carry on.

erockerI don't see any bashing. Carry on.

you dont see it because you dont have the gift of reading between the lines,like me:)

I am usually a nvidia fanboy o.O, and if nvidia can show me a good gpu with good specs then I might wait, but if ATI shows up teh party and releases the 5870 with 1600SP's then I'm just gonna buy that instead unless nvidia really blows my mind with their demo, I'm using a 8800GS right now since I sold my main PC to build a new one, and since a 1600SP 5870 will probably outperform a 4870X2, im game for that.

But nvidia has a reputation of overpricing all their cards at launch, which makes me look to the red camp.

Nvidia is making less per unit than ATI due to their monolithic monster, competitive prices & performance, and yield loss on that huge die.


Simply put, they gambled and lost.

The huge upgrade for the 4890 was the clocking ability, they are catering to the extreme overclockers, can you imagine what four 4890's with 2GB RAm each and a quad at 6GHz would do to benchmarks? I have a 940 at 3.75Ghz currently, and am waiting for the 58XX series with 2GB on them to get the performance I want.


I can think of a few reasons to buy it, more vmem, more speed, and new support. So right now there are very few games I can't play at max settings, and the only reason i have to upgrade is to play GTA4 at max settings.....which requires more vmem, and if when that time comes Nvidia has a superior product with enough junk to run it, at a price I can afford, they win.

Everybody have high expectations from GT300, me inlcuded... Hope Nvidia make that card fine, as always.