GhostRyderHopefully the HBM on the 390/X pans out well and gives the card a significant boost. I am very interested in that more than anything on the card because it could be very sweet with that much bandwidth and that many Stream processors. Not a bad combination though I am now upset they are waiting so long for even releasing SOMETHING.

It's just business. The 390/390x will be a beast. We will get to see it soon. Both AMD and Nvidia don't want to release a GPU that is seen as inferior and topped by the other side right off the bat so they do the dance of PR speak and "leaks" to test the water but time is money so they will release it soon if they're able too.

Date of the issue continues to moves. That would be a good thing is has long been predicted.(R9-300)
Can not wait !for new TITAN killer. And finally the Nvidia Shares have fallen decently, the prices is still to high for nVidia.
I hope that AMD will remain with their prices.
R-9 290x multi or single is total for 4K owne GPU , best you can buy!

64KThe 390/390x will be a beast.

bogamiDate of the issue continues to moves. That would be a good thing is has long been predicted.
Can not wait !for new TITAN killer. And finally the Nvidia Shares have fallen decently, the prices is still to high for nVidia.
I hope that AMD will remain with their prices.
R-9 290x multi or single is total for 4K owne GPU , best you can buy!

The 290X can now be had for around 300$ which is excellent. I hope the 390X won't be much more than that. They can throw the 399.99$ price tag and call it a day.

It would be better if they release it now and not in 3 months but what can we do.......... Something is not ready yet.

Sony Xperia SThe 290X can now be had for around 300$ which is excellent. I hope the 390X won't be much more than that. They can throw the 399.99$ price tag and call it a day.

It would be better if they release it now and not in 3 months but what can we do.......... Something is not ready yet.

if it is near the titan z and they do it for for under $500 i would be shocked tbh.

sidenote, the 285 i played with was about 20/25% faster than the 7950 i had at the same speeds.

still not a patch on the 290x mind.

GLDI want to replace my excellent 7850, but reading rebranding on most of the cards, idk?
I will be sticking with AMD/Sapphire gpu either way.

I wouldn't expect too much rebranding. You need a Bonaire as minimum for Freesync and having GCN 1.1, 1.2, 1.3, 1.X models in the 300 series, is too much complexity that you don't want to carry around in the future. I can see Tonga in the new series, but only that GPU, not even Hawaii. All the other models should be new GPUs.

Sony Xperia SAMD Radeon 300 Series Won’t Be A Rebrand, New GPUs Coming in June
Read more: wccftech.com/amd-r9-300-series-not-rebrands/#ixzz3TmOwvgRS

Except that the article they are quoting (Kitguru) has this direct quote: "At present details about the lineup are not clear, but expect several all-new graphics solutions to be unveiled, whereas some re-branded products will likely show up in the following months". Which is at odds with WTFtech's assertion - whose comprehension of what was said is lacking:

AMD’s Gaming Scientist Richard Huddy had stated on several occasions that “all of AMD’s future GPUs will support FreeSync“.

This also doesn't contradict Kitguru. Rebrands aren't future GPUs....and that's assuming you take Huddy's pronouncementsas set in stone.

bogamiAnd finally the Nvidia Shares have fallen decently,

Are you sure you looked at the historical pricing chartthe right way up?

Well that's also what I been hearing until I saw this
wccftech.com/amd-r9-300-series-not-rebrands/


Edit: oops just realized someone posted this already

sergionographyWell that's also what I been hearing until I saw this
wccftech.com/amd-r9-300-series-not-rebrands/

That is the same link that was posted earlier.
WTFtech takes a Kitguru article, and makes an assumption based on two mutually exclusive facts.
Huddy says all future GPUs from AMD will support FreeSync (which should just be common sense). Kitguru - the article WTFtech is quoting, also says that there could be re-brands. Since rebrands use existing GPUs, it doesn't contradict what Huddy said. Huddy didn't say that the GPU line up for the 300 series would be all new silicon.

HumanSmokeThat is the same link that was posted earlier.
WTFtech takes a Kitguru article, and makes an assumption based on two mutually exclusive facts.
Huddy says all future GPUs from AMD will support FreeSync (which should just be common sense). Kitguru - the article WTFtech is quoting, also says that there could be re-brands. Since rebrands use existing GPUs, it doesn't contradict what Huddy said. Huddy didn't say that the GPU line up for the 300 series would be all new silicon.

The sad thing is not this.

The sad thing is that we are stuck on mature cheap old trash 28nm process and next-generation R9 400 series Arctic Islands are scheduled for H2 2016 release.

Delay is delay, no matter the reason.

Failure either way

pidginDelay is delay, no matter the reason.

Failure either way

Ridiculous to claim it a fail.

Everything depends on the prices. Even if they release rebrands but when they put them cheaply, that replaces the older cards from lower market segments.....

Even R9 390X can be marketed in a different way, so it becomes a mainstream affordable for everyone card pretty soon.

Sony Xperia SRidiculous to claim it a fail.

Everything depends on the prices. Even if they release rebrands but when they put them cheaply, that replaces the older cards from lower market segments.....

Even R9 390X can be marketed in a different way, so it becomes a mainstream affordable for everyone card pretty soon.

Indeed, it's absolutely wrong to claim fail for several reasons.
No data released on performance, prices, noise, temps, consumption...

AMD release will def change the market, see how nVidia is already answering with that Gigabyte 960 with 4GB? Or the next Titan? or even the 2 new cards that have been teased/rumored from the 9xx series?

Don't get me wrong tho, I think AMD was a tad slow on this release (June? Really?) and I hope this extra time implies less rebrands on slightly improved silicon. Maybe the rumors of the only rebrand being Tonga are true, but we may have to wait for that.

THats what I'm talking about. The release date. Massive fail.

pidginTHats what I'm talking about. The release date. Massive fail.

AMD is small, they have not enough engineers, resources in general, free cash flow to help them with research and development, not very reliable partners - not offering next-generation manufacturing processes, etc, etc.

Actually, when everything is against AMD, they are doing true miracles even to achieve this in a so complicated world. :(

pidginTHats what I'm talking about. The release date. Massive fail.

Well, still have to see what the release date brings to the table. If the performance/price relation beats nVidia (like it has been doing lately) and the performance is significantly better than r9 2xx series then it's going to be a good release.

If it's a low extra performance %, and just a couple of rebrands with higher price tag... then oh well

I think it's a pity Mantle died already tho, guess DX12 / Vulkan is our future.

pidginTHats what I'm talking about. The release date. Massive fail.

makes no sense, with that way of thinking every company ever in the world fails massively, which in turn makes it a moot point to bring up

DaemmonI think it's a pity Mantle died already tho, guess DX12 / Vulkan is our future.

I think Mantle serves its purpose quite well and pushed Microsoft, at least, to give some improvements away with DX12.

DX12 is promised to deliver 20% performance improvements.

arbiterWell there is a thing as to much bandwidth. Don't need super huge pipe to get good performance outta a GPU, just need to use what you have efficiently.

arbiterIts not all about memory bandwidth. Even with that doesn't mean it will be able to.

Memory bandwidth is very important and is becoming a bigger necessity than before due to the ever rising resolution of monitors, the higher requirements of ram in games, etc. Having the higher memory bandwidth can make all the difference especially in situations where we are gaming at 1440p-2160p. It may not be as necessary in all scenarios, but it is sure to give a nice boost and with our single GPU's already being as powerful as they are, the next generation are going to be on the edge of single GPU gaming at 4K (Titan X/1080 and R9 390X, though still probably not fluent 60hz). Also in situations where your using 2+ cards its going to make even more of a difference.
But I am not saying memory bandwidth is everything and I agree it comes down to if the GPU can handle it, but I believe these next GPU's are going to start needing more and more bandwidth down the line.

64KIt's just business. The 390/390x will be a beast. We will get to see it soon. Both AMD and Nvidia don't want to release a GPU that is seen as inferior and topped by the other side right off the bat so they do the dance of PR speak and "leaks" to test the water but time is money so they will release it soon if they're able too.

I agree, though I just thought the delay is taking a lot longer than I think it should. But I feel they were not really forced to release something either and if nothing else they have been given a lot of time to work out the kinks which should be better for us end users.

john_I wouldn't expect too much rebranding. You need a Bonaire as minimum for Freesync and having GCN 1.1, 1.2, 1.3, 1.X models in the 300 series, is too much complexity that you don't want to carry around in the future. I can see Tonga in the new series, but only that GPU, not even Hawaii. All the other models should be new GPUs.

Well there are a lot of rumors surrounding this right now and we are kind of at a wall at the moment blocking us until we hear more. Its already said that the R9 380X will be an upgraded Hawaii silicon but how its been phrased leaves a lot up in the air because it could just be a better binned Hawaii chip or it could be something has actually been changed on it for the better. I will leave my judgment until we have a little more details before I make an assumption about the chips in the lineup.

Still, I am an impatient man and waiting on anything whether it be a new GPU or CPU just drives me nuts especially when we have been waiting for so long already.

HumanSmokeThat is the same link that was posted earlier.
WTFtech takes a Kitguru article, and makes an assumption based on two mutually exclusive facts.
Huddy says all future GPUs from AMD will support FreeSync (which should just be common sense). Kitguru - the article WTFtech is quoting, also says that there could be re-brands. Since rebrands use existing GPUs, it doesn't contradict what Huddy said. Huddy didn't say that the GPU line up for the 300 series would be all new silicon.

No they r making the assumption based on the fact that rebrands do not require a delay till June, especially when amds Fiji chip is already pretty much ready and passed certification with only finishing touches left(which shouldn't take 3-4 month)

Sony Xperia SAMD is small, they have not enough engineers, resources in general, free cash flow to help them with research and development, not very reliable partners - not offering next-generation manufacturing processes, etc, etc.

Actually, when everything is against AMD, they are doing true miracles even to achieve this in a so complicated world. :(

I'm a huge amd fan and I sure love their open standards take in the market, however I do believe this is not the time for charity when they are dead broke.

Sony Xperia SI think Mantle serves its purpose quite well and pushed Microsoft, at least, to give some improvements away with DX12.

DX12 is promised to deliver 20% performance improvements.

Mantle is good and pushed the industry forward but business wise amd would've been better investing in New chips and architecture last year to better compete with nvidia, look how much money and market share they lost.

DaemmonIndeed, it's absolutely wrong to claim fail for several reasons.
No data released on performance, prices, noise, temps, consumption...

AMD release will def change the market, see how nVidia is already answering with that Gigabyte 960 with 4GB? Or the next Titan? or even the 2 new cards that have been teased/rumored from the 9xx series?

Don't get me wrong tho, I think AMD was a tad slow on this release (June? Really?) and I hope this extra time implies less rebrands on slightly improved silicon. Maybe the rumors of the only rebrand being Tonga are true, but we may have to wait for that.

No a fail is a fail, amd is almost one year late to the market and already lost junkload of money and market share for nvidia Simply because they thought they can compete with rebrands. Sure for us we can say lower prices on 200 series makes things good, but for amd it doesn't, because the 290x is more expensive to manufacture than gtx980 simply because it's bigger, and runs hotter and uses more power so it needs more sophisticated circuit design and cooling, so while it can be somewhat of a win for customers to have low prices, it remaims a loss for amd. So even though both gtx980 and r290x perform within 15% of each other, Maxwell architecture remains newer and more of an engineering feat because of its efficiency that's why it's winning no matter how u slice it, even if amd and nvidia have 50-50 share nvidia would still make more money Because it can offer more performance for cheaper(as in cheaper to manufacture) 250w power means u need a 250w circuit, a 250w capable cooler, and customers with 250w capable desktops(smaller target)

Sony Xperia SI think Mantle serves its purpose quite well and pushed Microsoft, at least, to give some improvements away with DX12.

DX12 is promised to deliver 20% performance improvements.

MS had those improvements already in works before mantle was announced so it didn't do anything. No way MS could add those improvements in such a short amount of time.

GhostRyderWell there are a lot of rumors surrounding this right now and we are kind of at a wall at the moment blocking us until we hear more. Its already said that the R9 380X will be an upgraded Hawaii silicon but how its been phrased leaves a lot up in the air because it could just be a better binned Hawaii chip or it could be something has actually been changed on it for the better. I will leave my judgment until we have a little more details before I make an assumption about the chips in the lineup.

Likely it will be modified for DX12 but still mostly a rebrand. Without that would be worthless buy.

sergionographyNo a fail is a fail, amd is almost one year late to the market and already lost junkload of money and market share for nvidia Simply because they thought they can compete with rebrands. Sure for us we can say lower prices on 200 series makes things good, but for amd it doesn't, because the 290x is more expensive to manufacture than gtx980 simply because it's bigger, and runs hotter and uses more power so it needs more sophisticated circuit design and cooling, so while it can be somewhat of a win for customers to have low prices, it remaims a loss for amd. So even though both gtx980 and r290x perform within 15% of each other, Maxwell architecture remains newer and more of an engineering feat because of its efficiency that's why it's winning no matter how u slice it, even if amd and nvidia have 50-50 share nvidia would still make more money Because it can offer more performance for cheaper(as in cheaper to manufacture) 250w power means u need a 250w circuit, a 250w capable cooler, and customers with 250w capable desktops(smaller target)

Though not comfirmed, using amd's most efficient silicon which is tonga with 2048 gcn and 256bit bus, that is still about 200watt TDP part. they are doubling # of gcn cores and memory bus. so 390x could be in the 400watt TDP range. Which go back to the rumored AIO water cooler that leaked AMD was lookin' was workin on, that would seem to fit that they would need something along those lines to cools this. It will come down to how well it performance compared to titan X which could figure uses only aroud 225-250watt TDP tops.

GhostRyderMemory bandwidth is very important and is becoming a bigger necessity than before due to the ever rising resolution of monitors, the higher requirements of ram in games, etc. Having the higher memory bandwidth can make all the difference especially in situations where we are gaming at 1440p-2160p. It may not be as necessary in all scenarios, but it is sure to give a nice boost and with our single GPU's already being as powerful as they are, the next generation are going to be on the edge of single GPU gaming at 4K (Titan X/1080 and R9 390X, though still probably not fluent 60hz). Also in situations where your using 2+ cards its going to make even more of a difference.
But I am not saying memory bandwidth is everything and I agree it comes down to if the GPU can handle it, but I believe these next GPU's are going to start needing more and more bandwidth down the line.

The average card of the next gen will have more bandwith compared to previous gen, yes, this has been happening for a long time already. Resolution raises, and so does the bandwith needs to raise. But the alledged 600gb/s bandwith? Not yet, not until GPUs can take full advantage of it. It is amazing for SLI/Crossfire users, since it will def be a step in the right direction for 4K.

I'm actually wondering what would be the ideal bandwith for the current "dream", that being 60FPS @ 4K.

sergionographyNo they r making the assumption based on the fact that rebrands do not require a delay till June

This whole issue isn't about technology, it is about inventory.
The manufacture of the cards wouldn't be a problem, what is a problem is that AMD under Rory Read stuffed the channel with productsto make the books look good. Before any new cards can be accepted AIB/AIC's need to clear inventory. If "new" rebrands enter the channel alongside current SKUs what happens to sales of 200 series cards? The other alternative to order mass recalls, BIOS reflashing, and repackaging which would cut profit to the bone - assuming there was any to be made. The Kitguru article specifically mentions the unsold inventory as being a major reason AMD hasn't released new cards.

sergionographyespecially when amds Fiji chip is already pretty much ready and passed certification with only finishing touches left(which shouldn't take 3-4 month)

Shouldn't take 3-4 months yet AMD aren't launching the card until the first week of June, and AMD's own CFO, Devinder Kumar, states : “We are confident that as we get into the second half of 2015 with the launch of that [new graphics] product, we will gain back the market share which is low from my standpoint and historically,”
If finishing touches are all that is required then there must be another reason why the launch is still 3 months out, no?
What is painfully apparent is that AMD's partners have large quantities of unsold inventory that is either written off, or sold for an ever decreasing value as the Osborne effectexerts influence. AMD either takes the financial hit of another "one time" charge and launches new product, or sells cheap and hopes that people upgrade again within months when the 300 series arrive.

sergionographyNo a fail is a fail, amd is almost one year late to the market and already lost junkload of money and market share for nvidia Simply because they thought they can compete with rebrands.

They are linked. Downsizing a company ( scaling back/cutting projects, cutting down R&D - lest we forget Synopsys gained 150 AMD R&D engineers in their deal), and prioritizing console APU designs have put the company under considerable constraints. It is also the reason that AMD haven't fielded a top-to-bottom new GPU series since Evergreen in 2009-10.

sergionographyI'm a huge amd fan and I sure love their open standards take in the market, however I do believe this is not the time for charity when they are dead broke.

You mean that they should not put low prices?

arbiterMS had those improvements already in works before mantle was announced so it didn't do anything. No way MS could add those improvements in such a short amount of time.

Let's first define what a short period is for you.

But how much ram?! I don't think 4Gb is enough for a flagship card since GTX 980 will soon be nVidia midrange card.

arbiterLikely it will be modified for DX12 but still mostly a rebrand. Without that would be worthless buy.

They sounds like they are doing more than just that but who knows until we have more details... Point though is I doubt this would be a straight up re-badge.

arbiterThough not comfirmed, using amd's most efficient silicon which is tonga with 2048 gcn and 256bit bus, that is still about 200watt TDP part. they are doubling # of gcn cores and memory bus. so 390x could be in the 400watt TDP range. Which go back to the rumored AIO water cooler that leaked AMD was lookin' was workin on, that would seem to fit that they would need something along those lines to cools this. It will come down to how well it performance compared to titan X which could figure uses only aroud 225-250watt TDP tops.

Well if scaling in this area was linear then yes, but basing off the predictions the TDP is going to be ~350 but then again TDP is not power consumption and that could be much higher. Depends on how they push it core wise and what the improvements actually yield since this is a new chip. But just basing off the fact they are using an AIO does not mean much because they are likely just evolving to the next area for gaming card reference coolers since most people want everything as quiet as possible.

DaemmonThe average card of the next gen will have more bandwith compared to previous gen, yes, this has been happening for a long time already. Resolution raises, and so does the bandwith needs to raise. But the alledged 600gb/s bandwith? Not yet, not until GPUs can take full advantage of it. It is amazing for SLI/Crossfire users, since it will def be a step in the right direction for 4K.

I'm actually wondering what would be the ideal bandwith for the current "dream", that being 60FPS @ 4K.

Well taking advantage of it means different things, I think though these high end cards are aimed at the extreme range which is where CFX/SLI users and extreme resolution users are. It maybe a bit overkill in the lower areas and yes it will probably be a bit more than needed but this just means memory bandwidth won't be holding it back. Plus we have to start somewhere with new tech...

DeadSkullBut how much ram?! I don't think 4Gb is enough for a flagship card since GTX 980 will soon be nVidia midrange card.

I agree, I think 4gb might be the problem overall as its going to be running on the edge. Right now its enough at 4K, but for how long is up in the air and honestly its making the Titan X (or eventual 1080/1080ti or whatever its going to be called) more appealing. Going to be interesting none the less especially if we see some way they manage 8gb versions of the card.