You know, your opinion is important, and very valid, and I do respect that. In the end, I think that our differing opinions on things is great, and I think it's awesome that in the end, although we might be at opposite ends of the spectrum, we still manage to find products that fit our needs too.

There are problems with using the solder they do, that in my eyes, make it a non-enthusiast solution. These problems, when they arise, are irreversible, and the problem that I refer to, that I am purposely not mentioning, is widely documented with CPUs, but never actually correctly attributed to this problem. I have chosen to not be the person that brings this into the public domain. I have tried this before with other things, like micro-stuttering, or overheating M.2 devices, and it always takes too long for people to see and I'd rather not argue about these things at this point.


I have yet found a way to convey this effectively, but the best I can say is that I think that pasted TIM is great because that as an enthusiast, you have the option of play with things like the TIM under the IHS if you want, and that that is only possible because of them using a paste-based TIM in the first place. If these chips were soldered, you'd actually have LESS options, I think.

I know people want solder on their chips, and the fact that it can act as a better cooling solution and that it costs little cannot be argued, but for me, it's all about ensuring that the end users have OPTIONS, and I think that this stance of that "only solder for high-end CPUs", which removes this option, makes it less of an enthusiast-oriented product, and as such, of lesser value.

ironwolf:laugh: One of the comments on the article was pure gold:



:laugh:

I've recently bought a 3.4EE GHz Gallatin core :P the original emergency edition cpu xD

100 C isnt a problem.. only in the eyes of the average enthusiast who as well as running their chips as fast as possible also like to run them as cool as possible..

i put a heat gun on the back of my motherboard directly at the place the cpu socket sits.. i was thinking about putting a fan there.. with the cpu at full temperature the back of the board was close to room ambient..

that 100 C is very localized and only at the very heart of the cpu cores.. there must be a world full of (none enthusiast) 100 C intel cpus.. all running fine and as you say if they were not intel would have set the throttle point lower..

trog

cadavecaI don't review CPUs, and I don't care if a CPU "overheats" because I know that they have built-in protections that keep them away from anything dangerous, so really, they actually never overheat. As a reviewer, I know better than to worry about it. Anyone telling you anything different is fear-mongering. CPUs, for me are mere tools I use to do other reviews, and I know my tools well.

Remember so many years ago when everyone was saying OC is dead? That Intel killed it? They weren't lying... but understanding what that meant is a complex subject that it seems only few understand. It's completely baffling to me as a reviewer that enthusiasts don't get it, but, then we get reviews like we did today, and all I can say is "oh well".

Why is 100 C a problem? I fail to understand, because I see zero evidence that shows this to be a real problem. You know there are CPUs that don't even shut down until past 100 C ? If this particular number was a problem, you'd think they'd shut down before that... but they don't.

Amazing CPU. Bad because price difference is big from 8 to 10 cores as 10 and 16 cores model.

cadavecaYou know, your opinion is important, and very valid, and I do respect that. In the end, I think that our differing opinions on things is great, and I think it's awesome that in the end, although we might be at opposite ends of the spectrum, we still manage to find products that fit our needs too.

There are problems with using the solder they do, that in my eyes, make it a non-enthusiast solution. These problems, when they arise, are irreversible, and the problem that I refer to, that I am purposely not mentioning, is widely documented with CPUs, but never actually correctly attributed to this problem. I have chosen to not be the person that brings this into the public domain. I have tried this before with other things, like micro-stuttering, or overheating M.2 devices, and it always takes too long for people to see and I'd rather not argue about these things at this point.


I have yet found a way to convey this effectively, but the best I can say is that I think that pasted TIM is great because that as an enthusiast, you have the option of play with things like the TIM under the IHS if you want, and that that is only possible because of them using a paste-based TIM in the first place. If these chips were soldered, you'd actually have LESS options, I think.

I know people want solder on their chips, and the fact that it can act as a better cooling solution and that it costs little cannot be argued, but for me, it's all about ensuring that the end users have OPTIONS, and I think that this stance of that "only solder for high-end CPUs", which removes this option, makes it less of an enthusiast-oriented product, and as such, of lesser value.

If they were soldered you would have no "need" to replace the TIM. Having bad themalpaste under the IHS is a not an extra option for the customer... it's an annoyance.
That is regardless if said customer is actually willing to void the warranty to replace the terribad TIM or not. It is annoying to have higher temps due to it and it is tedious to replace it.

Intel should be putting decent themalpaste under the hood at least for the K and X line of processors at bare minimum. Then the thinkering lot would still have the "option" to delid if they feel like it, but everybody else (98% of the target audience or there abouts) could have semi decent temps with high-end cooling and what not.

Isnt it weird how even with this 'sub par' TIM a 3.3 ghz 140W cpu can reach 4.7ghz(+) using a non 24/7 voltage of 1.5 and at least manage a cinebench run with all cores using an aio cooler?????? Just something to think about... :)

I wonder what clocks can be reached with a custom loop.....oh i wonder....:p

I also wonder how much a delid will drop temps....(that part, i dont know).

AenraOne thing at a time :)

You have every right not to care about CPU overheating, throttling, global warming, nukes, cooking, or Islam; every right in the book. Care or care not, that's your call.
The problem arises when your subjective, personal opinions get tangled up with facts, ie what a review should usually be all about.

Now before you'll remind me yet again how you don't tend to review CPUs, i will re-re..mind you that this is a matter of mentality. It encompasses everything, it will as such interfere with what would/could otherwise be an excellent piece of work, helpful and informative. Be it for a CPU review which you don't do or for a mobo review, which you do do. Get my point now? Mentality is mentality. I see you having the wrong one, i'm worried. You get to influence others with what you post, i don't.
(hopefully this puts my original post into a better perspective, though in all honesty, i'd not have expected to need expand on it further)

As to the TIM in i9s specifically?
I wanted to say "if you don't get it, i don't know what else to say", but..
- think of the cost to have them soldered, when they are produced in batches of hundreds of thousands, if not more.. almost non-existing.
- for an almost non-existing additional cost, they make a move that pretty much guarantees insane temps (compared to the opposition's), lower lifespan (all that heat) and/or throttling (lower performance than what you paid for) on an expensive as hell CPU (one out of which they make a fortune already, would have even if soldered).
- somehow, none of the above is an issue and we should all say thank you? And if for some reason you wanna go 101% yuppie on me (take it or leave it, mah market) and insist we should?
i) this time around we have competition, and the competition offers it soldered; for a good reason.
ii) when you dub something High End and 'enthusiast-oriented', you should make sure it's actually in spec with what an enthusiast would expect. You ever bought a Ferrari with a bad radiator? "You have money dude, drive it below 100mph or go buy your own radiator and F off!"
No, not how it goes.

Enthusiast does NOT mean "i'm a victim, sell me anything you damn please and i'll pay extra to make it feasible".
Enthusiast means "i pay extra for better quality/higher performance" (throttling is not an enthusiast's thing, 100Cs are also not an enthusiast's spec, as they prohibit OCing).

As usual, just my opinion, i know in advance most disagree, no worries there :)

4.7 ghz from 3.3 on high end air/aio in a review already ...and amd cant break 4ghz from 3.6 with less cores...with solder.

You say 'insane temps COMPARED TO AMD'. I ask you what relevance their temps have over intels different silicon and fab process? My answer, none. Who cares about AMDs lower temps. We can see it doesnt help at all with amds overclocking...i mean, it cant get past its own boost in most cases.

Its clear, in the reviews weve seen, it doesnt seem to matter much..

EarthDogI wonder what clocks can be reached with a custom loop.....oh i wonder....:p

I also wonder how much a delid will drop temps....(that part, i dont know).

I really want to do a follow-up to my i7-7700K de-lidding article with Skylake-X but of course those CPUs cost a lot more and there's no retail de-lidding solution yet.

EarthDogIsnt it weird how even with this 'sub par' TIM a 3.3 ghz 140W cpu can reach 4.7ghz(+) using a non 24/7 voltage of 1.5 and at least manage a cinebench run with all cores using an aio cooler?????? Just something to think about... :)

I wonder what clocks can be reached with a custom loop.....oh i wonder....:p

I also wonder how much a delid will drop temps....(that part, i dont know).

4.7 ghz from 3.3 on high end air/aio in a review already ...and amd cant break 4ghz from 3.6 with less cores...with solder.

You say 'insane temps COMPARED TO AMD'. I ask you what relevance their temps have over intels different silicon and fab process? My answer, none. Who cares about AMDs lower temps. We can see it doesnt help at all with amds overclocking...i mean, it cant get past its own boost in most cases.

Its clear, in the reviews weve seen, it doesnt seem to matter much..

Sadly the TIM isn't quote on quote sup bar, it just simply is and has been for quite a while now. Reviews had 1.22-1.25V on the core (dunno where that 1.5V came from in your post?) any higher than that resulted in thermal throttling with three digit temp in the 100°C+ region on pretty beefy AIOs with 240-280mm rads.

As for AMDs lack of a mature manufacturing node at GloFo that would allow for a more decent OC headroom makes no excuse for Intel to skimp on a few cents of better TIM paste, especially on a 1K USD part.

EarthDogI ask you what relevance their temps have over intels different silicon and fab process?

In regard to the voltage -> freq (which you also mentioned but for the sake of economy am not quoting), i have no complaints, on the contrary. I would even say that knowing "reviewers", there's a good chance one can expect a lot more before hitting the ceiling; something which we suspected already, i don't think you'll find anyone saying differently. Well, unless they're some fanboy anyway ^^
Not even sure why you're mentioning this, it's a grand positive, we're all aware of it.. but it does not invalidate what i said; be it about X299 'obfuscation', be it about the illusion of lowering prices for the enthusiast segment, be it about dubbing it enthusiast in the first place and selling it non-soldered.

As to the temps relevance?
Why would i go your way of thinking? Who cares about the fab? Does it or does it not reach (and would have exeeded had they not stopped it) 100C at a measly 1.25v!? I stick to the fact; i know there's a why, i know i could compare so as to reach that why, but the fact remains. It does.
Show me an AMD Threadripper that reaches 100C at 1.25. Please do. I bet they won't.

Now you may not mind, hell, you may go and buy Derbauer's delid tool, plus liquid metal, plus paste, with a smile on your face, blissfully aware you're paying all that extra when they could have just had it soldered but hey, you like it like that.
Does that make it right? Or O.K.?

(and don't forget the rest.. if you don't.. lifespan, danger of damaging your chip, warranty void and all it entails, etc. etc.)

Said it before, eXXXtreme is fine, to each their own. But this? This is them taking you for a fool, nothing more than just that. They give you less and ask for more and here you are, excusing them. Buy it and bitch about it, i respect. Buy it and excuse them on top of it? Nah.
No offense :)

EarthDogIsnt it weird how even with this 'sub par' TIM a 3.3 ghz 140W cpu can reach 4.7ghz(+) using a non 24/7 voltage of 1.5 and at least manage a cinebench run with all cores using an aio cooler?????? Just something to think about... :)

I wonder what clocks can be reached with a custom loop.....oh i wonder....:p

I also wonder how much a delid will drop temps....(that part, i dont know).

4.7 ghz from 3.3 on high end air/aio in a review already ...and amd cant break 4ghz from 3.6 with less cores...with solder.

You say 'insane temps COMPARED TO AMD'. I ask you what relevance their temps have over intels different silicon and fab process? My answer, none. Who cares about AMDs lower temps. We can see it doesnt help at all with amds overclocking...i mean, it cant get past its own boost in most cases.

Its clear, in the reviews weve seen, it doesnt seem to matter much..

It's a 3.3 baseclock and 4.5ghz boost on 2 cores. Essentially it's a 4ghz cpu on average. Besides, it's meant to be oc-ed, der8auer told us 4.8ghz was possible on stock TIM on water, and bit-tech gets 4.7ghz, but it gets insanely hot and they deop it to 4.6ghz to keep it below 9t degrees. Cpu's will run at 100 or even 110 degrees sometimes, but only god knows how long it will last at those temperatures! It's unlikely it will last 4-5 years, like all my cpu's and sometimes gpu's need to last in most people's pc's.

AenraIn regard to the voltage -> freq (which you also mentioned but for the sake of economy am not quoting), i have no complaints, on the contrary. I would even say that knowing "reviewers", there's a good chance one can expect a lot more before hitting the ceiling; something which we suspected already, i don't think you'll find anyone saying differently. Well, unless they're some fanboy anyway ^^
Not even sure why you're mentioning this, it's a grand positive, we're all aware of it.. but it does not invalidate what i said; be it about X299 'obfuscation', be it about the illusion of lowering prices for the enthusiast segment, be it about dubbing it enthusiast in the first place and selling it non-soldered.

As to the temps relevance?
Why would i go your way of thinking? Who cares about the fab? Does it or does it not reach (and would have exeeded had they not stopped it) 100C at a measly 1.25v!? I stick to the fact; i know there's a why, i know i could compare so as to reach that why, but the fact remains. It does.
Show me an AMD Threadripper that reaches 100C at 1.25. Please do. I bet they won't.

Now you may not mind, hell, you may go and buy Derbauer's delid tool, plus liquid metal, plus paste, with a smile on your face, blissfully aware you're paying all that extra when they could have just had it soldered but hey, you like it like that.
Does that make it right? Or O.K.?

(and don't forget the rest.. if you don't.. lifespan, danger of damaging your chip, warranty void and all it entails, etc. etc.)

Said it before, eXXXtreme is fine, to each their own. But this? This is them taking you for a fool, nothing more than just that. They give you less and ask for more and here you are, excusing them. Buy it and bitch about it, i respect. Buy it and excuse them on top of it? Nah.
No offense :)

Yikes...

1. "Reviewers" or not, 1.5V is too high for 24/7 so i doubt there is much/any left in the tank there. I alluded to that but the subtle point was missed.

2. Does what reach 100c at 1.25v? Did i miss something? I was seeing 7900x at 4.7ghz and 1.5V run cinebench with all cores and threads using an aio...not sure where you are getting 1.25v and 100c.

3. Explain to me why i need to delid when it can reach 4.7ghz using a non 24/7 voltage and pass cinebench? I bet many will clock 4.5ghz 1.35V and be fine under an aio... maybe its 90c... but, they are ok to run like that. Again, you cant compare amd temps to intel...THAT is why you want to go down my road...one of thinking, logic, and relevance, instead of opinions on based on loose footing (at best...no offense).

But i do think you are misunderstanding me. I think the solder tim should be there too...my point is simply that its not remotely as big of a deal as many, read: you (and others), are making it out to be.

Hugh MungusIt's a 3.3 baseclock and 4.5ghz boost on 2 cores. Essentially it's a 4ghz cpu on average. Besides, it's meant to be oc-ed, der8auer told us 4.8ghz was possible on stock TIM on water, and bit-tech gets 4.7ghz, but it gets insanely hot and they deop it to 4.6ghz to keep it below 9t degrees. Cpu's will run at 100 or even 110 degrees sometimes, but only god knows how long it will last at those temperatures! It's unlikely it will last 4-5 years, like all my cpu's and sometimes gpu's need to last in most people's pc's.

it will last through its warranty at least... again, if it was harmful to run that hot, intel would have lowred the throttling temp. As it stands, thats 100c...and shutdown is, guessing here, 110c.

4ghz on Average, yet weve seen 4.7 and 4.8 so far... im sure 4.5ghz is in the cards with aio cooling and reasonable voltages...

sounds very much like my 4 core 8 thread 7700K behaves.. in this sense i recon its doing well to get where it does.. he he..

trog

@EarthDog You're right, let me put it differently :)

What IS a big deal for me is people's lack of complaining. The more lax their judgement on practices such as this one, the more they encourage Intel to keep screwing them. It's why i said buy it.. buy it if you want. But bitch about the TIM; don't excuse it, don't adopt a mentality of "yea yeah, but at least i can fix it".
It's a bad practice and these should always be condemned; end of the day, it's in our best interest.
edit: and let's not forget, not everyone knows what all this means. They will just buy a CPU that overheats and won't even know why, lol

Also, unless i am mistaken, the voltage was 1.25, not 1.5? If it was 1.5, we wouldn't even be having this conversation. One reviewer, he even mentions how they started with 1.3 out of the box, then lowered it down as it was stable even at 1.25.

EarthDogYikes...

1. "Reviewers" or not, 1.5V is too high for 24/7 so i doubt there is much/any left in the tank there. I alluded to that but the subtle point was missed.

2. Does what reach 100c at 1.25v? Did i miss something? I was seeing 7900x at 4.7ghz and 1.5V run cinebench with all cores and threads using an aio...not sure where yoy are getting 1.25v and 100c.

3. Explain to me why i need to delid when it can reach 4.7ghz using a non 24/7 voltage and pass cinebench? I bet many will clock 4.5ghz 1.35V and be fine under an aio... maybe its 90c... but, they are ok to run like that. Again, yoy cant compare amd temps to intel...THAT is why yoy want to go down tbat road...one of thinking, logic, and relevance, instead of opinions on based on loose footing (at best...no offense).

But i do think you are misunderstanding me. I think the solder tim should be there too...my point is si.ply tbat its not remotely as big of a deal as many, read: you (and others), are making it out to be.

it will last through its warranty at least... again, if it was harmful to run that hot, intel would have lowred the throttling temp. As it stands, thats 100c...and shutdown is, guessing here, 110c.

Bit-tech for real results with an AIO. Shut-down at 110 and 100 degree temps aren't good for durability. The cpu probably won't last 4-5 years.

Aenra@EarthDog You're right, let me put it differently :)

What IS a big deal for me is people's lack of complaining. The more lax their judgement on practices such as this one, the more they encourage Intel to keep screwing them. It's why i said buy it.. buy it. But bitch about the TIM; don't excuse it, don't adopt a mentality of "yea yeah, but i at least i can fix it".

Also, unless i am mistaken, the voltage was 1.25, not 1.5. If it was 1.5, we wouldn't even be having this conversation.

screenshot of cpuz showed 1.5..but that could be wrong and i could be mistaking.

Enjoy your soapbox...ill watch from here. :)

Hugh MungusBit-tech for real results with an AIO. Shut-down at 110 and 100 degree temps aren't good for durability. The cpu probably won't last 4-5 years.

i know it was an aio...i said that.

Heh, ive run EVERY SINGLE ONE of my intel chips 10c away from their throttle points, overclocked heavily, all thier lives, folding for months on end with some. Certainly it shortens lifespan, but if you use realstic voltages, running 90c isnt an issue through the cpus useable life.

Edit: the hexus review was 1.25v and 4.7 ghz...i see that now. At least the voltage isnt out of line! But that doesnt change what i said... id bet an aio could handle 4.5ghz and 1.2v on all cores. Would it be better, with better tim? Surely. We also need to gather there is 10 cores and 140w(+) there... so voltage considerations do need tempered as these monsters scale up power use and heat quickly with all cores.

EarthDogEnjoy your soapbox

That's what you got out of this..? Do appreciate the honesty though :)

AenraThat's what you got out of this..? Do appreciate the honesty though :)

Yes... thats what i got out of your rant.

I see a person upset with intels choice of paste, trying to compare it to amd on on side, but ignore it on another. Even with intels 'sub par' paste, its overclocking AT LEAST 1ghz over its stock form. Amd with its 'great paste' cant overclock 500 mhz with it. I see someone trying to compare temps on two different types of silicon fabrication like they are equal... so again loose footing to stand on... and feels soapboxey/ranting while not comparing apples to apples or coming from a place of true understanding given the nuggets of info we have. Sorry for that blunt honesty. :)

Surely, its all about perspective. :)

Don't be sorry, i appreciate this more than anything. If only we could all be blunt, because occasionally we can't here sadly. Anyway, no offense taken :)

Now as to my "rant".. this is the second time you use that term with me. I find it just as inappliccable now as it was before.
I'm not 12, i'm not bashing, i'm not driven by some fanboying agenda. Are you incapable of seeing the gray in life? I don't bash Intel, i'm running one right now. I don't ignore the positives, highlighted them myself. Don't mean there aren't negatives, don't mean i won't mention them.

And the TIM is just one of them, you focused on it and i as such replied further in light of it, but that's not my sole issue.
Plus, you either failed or are unwilling to comprehend that my criticism in this specifically relates to mentality/thinking. Something in which you only prove me right, the way you've responded thus far.

Stop mixing it's excellent OC headroom with the fact that they went stingy simply because they know they can.
And while you're free not to care, perhaps you could also come to see how for most people, a 7700 deja vu isn't particularly a positive thing; or should i say, shouldn't have been.

Anyway, the end. Your money, not mine end of the day ^^

EarthDogSurely, its all about perspective. :)

We'll have to agree to disagree... though it was a lopsided discussion. ;)

R-T-BAn Intel Core i9-7900X has appeared for a full review at the site Hexus.net. Spoiler alert, it clocks to 4.7 GHz on all ten cores with relative ease (only taking 1.25 V, apparently, though it racked up nearly 100°C in Cinebench at that voltage).

The review praised Intel's overclocking headroom and general muscle in a mostly positive review. Still, not all is rosy in Intel land. They found performance per watt to not have improved much if at all, criticized the high price tag, and Hexus.net had the following to say about the overall experience:

"X299 motherboards don't appear to be quite ready, there are question marks surrounding the Skylake-X processors due later this year, and at the lower end of the Core X spectrum, Kaby Lake-X is nothing short of puzzling." [---]

It would seem AMD is not the only major chip-maker who can have motherboards ill prepared at launch time, even the mighty Intel may have teething issues yet.

You can read the full review (which is mostly positive, by the way) in the source link below.

Oh, and a special shoutout to our own @the54thvoid for discovering this article.



Source: hexus.net

Literally the same as AMD launch then. Motherboards with issues and questionable performance from higher end CPUs that werent benchmarked yet.

EarthDogYes... thats what i got out of your rant.

I see a person upset with intels choice of paste, trying to compare it to amd on on side, but ignore it on another. Even with intels 'sub par' paste, its overclocking AT LEAST 1ghz over its stock form. Amd with its 'great paste' cant overclock 500 mhz with it. I see someone trying to compare temps on two different types of silicon fabrication like they are equal... so again loose footing to stand on... and feels soapboxey/ranting while not comparing apples to apples or coming from a place of true understanding given the nuggets of info we have. Sorry for that blunt honesty. :)

Surely, its all about perspective. :)

AMD's ryzen is a budget, slow, quality alternative to intel. That's why it's funny ryzen is soldered and intel cpu's aren't! :) :)

Also, intel stock clocks should've been higher, but they couldn't be because of the terrible TIM. 3.6ghz base at least. BTW, threadripper should have higher baseclocks on some cpu's and is kinda going to be ryzen 1.5 because AMD had longer to optimize it, so nobody knows if they will overclock better or not.

I9 buyers, enjoy your fast turds that are barely faster than equivelant broadwell-e i7's! Threadripper buyers, enjoy your lovely cool and efficiënt cpu and please, please, please don't use it for 1080p gaming! You know better than that!

That's pure speculation...your middle paragraph...

But as far as threadripper being Ryzen 1.5... only time will tell, but since its the same damn thing just another CCX, the writing is on the wall...some can read it, some think its hieroglyphics. Some that think they can read it, can't. So... there's that! :p

EarthDogThat's pure speculation...your middle paragraph...

But as far as threadripper being Ryzen 1.5... only time will tell, but since its the same damn thing just another CCX, the writing is on the wall...some can read it, some think its hieroglyphics. Some that think they can read it, can't. So... there's that! :p

Middle paragraph isn't speculation. Intel has to cater for a wide range of people that all use different coolers, big and small. If a better TIM was used, stock clocks could've been higher without the cpu throttling with a half decent air cooler.

Also, apparently there is 3200mhz memory support and AMD will have changed a few things since they had to add pcie lanes and cache anyway amd getting ccx's to work welm together requires some work. Why wouldn't AMD have improved a few things if they had months to do so? Basically threadripper will be slightly improved ryzen ccx's and some stuff.

Hugh MungusMiddle paragraph isn't speculation. Intel has to cater for a wide range of people that all use different coolers, big and small. If a better TIM was used, stock clocks could've been higher without the cpu throttling with a half decent air cooler.

No. Just no. Better TIM might have lowered temps a little, but not enough to affect power consumption in such a way as to affect clocking ability. It simply doesn't work that way. What sort of power drop are you expecting from changing paste? higher clocks = higher power use; so how many watts per 100 MHz these CPUs use?


I will gladly take my 7900X and de-lid and prove that. I've got more than one. Heck, I'll do them all just to prove a point. I don't pay for this stuff, so I don't give a flying ... I just need to keep one with its top because I swap boards like every week working on reviews.


I'd be happy if I never saw another CPU with solder. I'd much rather buy a CPU that can work just fine with paste and can run a little bit hot, but is fine, compared to a CPU that requires solder right out of the box. The one with the paste, that can be subjected to those "harsh" conditions, is all that much of a higher quality.


Hey, maybe these CPUs are ones that makes me say de-lid is worth it. I don't see it as worth it with the mainstream Intel CPUs, but if it truly matters with these, I have no problem saying so.

cadavecaNo. Just no. Better TIM might have lowered temps a little, but not enough to affect power consumption in such a way as to affect clocking ability. It simply doesn't work that way. What sort of power drop are you expecting from changing paste? higher clocks = higher power use; so how many watts per 100 MHz these CPUs use?


I will gladly take my 7900X and de-lid and prove that. I've got more than one. Heck, I'll do them all just to prove a point. I don't pay for this stuff, so I don't give a flying ... I just need to keep one with its top because I swap boards like every week working on reviews.


I'd be happy if I never saw another CPU with solder. I'd much rather buy a CPU that can work just fine with paste and can run a little bit hot, but is fine, compared to a CPU that requires solder right out of the box. The one with the paste, that can be subjected to those "harsh" conditions, is all that much of a higher quality.


Hey, maybe these CPUs are ones that makes me say de-lid is worth it. I don't see it as worth it with the mainstream Intel CPUs, but if it truly matters with these, I have no problem saying so.

Mostly ignoring, except I want to say one thing: AMD ryzen doesn't NEED solder and it doesn't NEED a good stock cooler and yet AMD just gives them for free (except the cooler in some cases of course)!