TheOneThat upgrade path is being closed after December 31st.

Its all good they will force everyone to upgrade eventually with an update I bet, one day I will turn my machine on and it will be Windows 10(/11?)

Windows 10 needs 20 registry tweaks to be usable. It took away the full user control, has too many unecessary services and works on a modules base, wich sucks.

However windows 7 is outdated and doesn't use the latest CPU threads/cores as it should. In some games I have worse performance when GPU isn't the bottleneck (high refresh gaming).

So imo the best option for gamers is Windows 8.1. Yeah the start menu is bad but thats a minor problem to fix. Windows 10 also has awful mouse input/acell/smoothing even when you turn windows acel off. And even worse, it changes on every update.

john_Are you running Windows 10, or Arrogance 10 as your main OS?

I really don't understand people who judge others negatively, because they didn't do the same choices they did.

I am running both Windows 7 and 10 and I really don't feel the need to have all my systems to a continued beta testing mode, because Microsoft needs so, while it transforms it's operating system from a standard version to an ongoing changing service.

Holy... relax! Was more a jest than anything else, towards the ridiculous age of XP on some systems.

Ill stick to 7, been running perfect

Can we have at least one news about Windows WITHOUT someone going on how much W10 sucks and how it steals your datazzz? Please? Pretty please?
P.S.
W10 is the most secure Windows ever made. And no, I am not joking. I can and will agree that the user interface, especially Settings panel is very much work in progress and sucks, but do not say baseless rumors about security.

VarioIts all good they will force everyone to upgrade eventually with an update I bet, one day I will turn my machine on and it will be Windows 10(/11?)

No, it won't be, unless you accept it. Also, your W7 is NOT going to get upgraded anyway anymore. Like it wasn't for the last year already.

EasoCan we have at least one news about Windows WITHOUT someone going on how much W10 sucks and how it steals your datazzz? Please? Pretty please?

Gonna have to go with, um, yeah; No! When Microsoft stops invading our privacy and remembers the WE own our PC's then maybe, just maybe, we'll all shut up about it.

EasoP.S. W10 is the most secure Windows ever made. And no, I am not joking.

Joking or not, you are incorrect. It is running dead even as to the number of vulnerabilities discovered in the first and second years of deployment as Vista, 7 , 8 and 8.1. XP actually had fewer.

Easobut do not say baseless rumors about security.

Baseless? Hardly. I work very closely with technology professionally. It is literally part of my job description to evaluate the security and viability of the IT systems we work with. Windows 10 is laughable from a true security stand point.

EasoAlso, your W7 is NOT going to get upgraded anyway anymore. Like it wasn't for the last year already.

Incorrect. Windows 7 will still continue to receive security updates as well as critical fixes until 2020, as per Microsoft's EOL service declarations.

EasoW10 is the most secure Windows ever made

I can hack into your Win 10 in 20 minutes or less if you give me your IP right now. I can´t do it on 8.1 or 7. Why? Go figure. Please don´t talk about what you don´t know.

Windows 10 runs on a bunch of separate modules. It is flawed and has too many vulnerabilities. That´s why hackers are literally toying with it, and that´s why no big company is wanting to use it anymore. The biggest ones are either migrating from 7 to Linux or just upgrading to 8.1.

You guys must understand that Windows 10 only has a good amount of users, because it was free for a long time and you can get it for free from MS store (altho with customization limitations). That´s all. In the past every Windows would cost like 200 bucks in my country for a Retail copy, so upgrading was a slower process. Windows 10 is one of the worst editions since Windows ME.

BeastieThere have been one or two security updates for XP in years. Personally I couldn't recommend XP as a secure OS unless you are using it offline.

ANY OS is secure when run offline. That statement is as redundant as it is pointless. XP hasn't received many updates because it actually has fewer vulnerabilities. Microsoft is still supporting XP for Point Of Sale and other industrial uses, the updates CAN be applied to standard installations of XP with a few "tweaks" and "workarounds". Microsoft worked very hard for more than a decade to make XP rock solid. While I agree with you about recommending and using a newer OS, to say the XP is useless and can't be secured is a completely false and uninformed.

FrickThe thing is it's got holes not being fixed. What holes? Who knows? That is kinda the point now. And people don't secure stuff. You might, but people in general don't, which is the greatest reason XP really should be removed from the face of the earth. And XP is fundamentally less secure than modern OS's, because duh. Run a Linix distro from 2007 and you have the same problem. All them zero days turning up everywhere? Assume they are worse on XP.

Those are are conclusions that lack factual merit and objective reasoning, while at the same time making seriously flawed assumptions.

Manu_PTI can hack into your Win 10 in 20 minutes or less if you give me your IP right now. I can´t do it on 8.1 or 7. Why? Go figure. Please don´t talk about what you don´t know.

THAT would be fun to watch!

Manu_PTWindows 10 runs on a bunch of separate modules. It is flawed and has too many vulnerabilities. That´s why hackers are literally toying with it, and that´s why no big company is wanting to use it anymore. The biggest ones are either migrating from 7 to Linux or just upgrading to 8.1.

While the modules part is more or less accurate, it applies equally to Windows 8/8.1 because of the same basic design. All the "tiles" and the apps they're based on each provide a method to gain access to the system they run on. This kind of functionality is fundamentally and inherently flawed from a security standpoint.

Manu_PTYou guys must understand that Windows 10 only has a good amount of users, because it was free for a long time and you can get it for free from MS store (although with customization limitations). That´s all. In the past every Windows would cost like 200 bucks in my country for a Retail copy, so upgrading was a slower process. Windows 10 is one of the worst editions since Windows ME.

Not to mention all the forced upgrades.

Bottom line folks; Windows 10, in comparison to Microsoft's greatest version of Windows[XP] and it's finest[7], is a crap-show. And the real, willful adoption numbers bare that out. Not to mention the ever increasing number of users who are either back-tracking to Windows 7 or abandoning the Windows platform altogether for Android, iOS and others. There is a reason Android is now the most used OS on the planet.

lexluthermiesterThere is a reason Android is now the most used OS on the planet.

I could never do anything with it as a gamer. I can't do anything, period. I only have a dummy google account for just youtube. For all this talk of security, I'm wary of Google just by design. Luckily the cloud is optional with MS....and even if you do use it, it's limited and not integral to the whole OS.

lexluthermiesterANY OS is secure when run offline. That statement is as redundant as it is pointless. XP hasn't received many updates because it actually has fewer vulnerabilities. Microsoft is still supporting XP for Point Of Sale and other industrial uses, the updates CAN be applied to standard installations of XP with a few "tweaks" and "workarounds". Microsoft worked very hard for more than a decade to make XP rock solid. While I agree with you about recommending and using a newer OS, to say the XP is useless and can't be secured is a completely false and uninformed.

Those are are conclusions that lack factual merit and objective reasoning, while at the same time making seriously flawed assumptions.

THAT would be fun to watch!

While the modules part is more or less accurate, it applies equally to Windows 8/8.1 because of the same basic design. All the "tiles" and the apps they're based on each provide a method to gain access to the system they run on. This kind of functionality is fundamentally and inherently flawed from a security standpoint.

Not to mention all the forced upgrades.

Bottom line folks; Windows 10, in comparison to Microsoft's greatest version of Windows[XP] and it's finest[7], is a crap-show. And the real, willful adoption numbers bare that out. Not to mention the ever increasing number of users who are either back-tracking to Windows 7 or abandoning the Windows platform altogether for Android, iOS and others. There is a reason Android is now the most used OS on the planet.

And if Linux had good support for games and other producitve tasks like Music, Graphic design, etc, it would dominate everything. But "someone" doesn´t want it to happen, because Monopolies.

A quick simple example: Vulkan. Better than Directx in everything. Yet DX11 still dominating the market in 2017. Silly isn´t it?....

Manu_PTAnd if Linux had good support for games and other producitve tasks like Music, Graphic design, etc, it would dominate everything. But "someone" doesn´t want it to happen, because Monopolies.

A quick simple example: Vulkan. Better than Directx in everything. Yet DX11 still dominating the market in 2017. Silly isn´t it?....

No one is forcing this. There's just too many competing visions. The one thing commercial has going for it is heirarchy. NeXT already made a friendly UNIX in the 80s. And how? Steve Jobs. Then he pulled it off again with OS X. Then yet again with iOS. It wasn't until Google stepped in that Linux took the same approach. But that's really just Google. The rest of the Linux world still twiddles their thumbs, creates forks from forks, and reinvents the wheel every year or so. And anything that is good only behaves well in specific ecosystem. Don't mess with it much, and it's pretty at least....like a house of cards.

OSX is a closed UNIX based OS. The devices you generally need to use it are expensive for the hardware and materials it has. Can´t be compared with a simple Linux Distro that you can install on any device.

Linux is better than any OS, simply it doesn´t get the same support because of money. That´s all. From F1 2017 to Dota 2, CS GO, TF2, all of them run better on Linux and with better frame times. But 99% of the games still require DirectX. However a closed device like a PS4, only uses openGL and Vulkan, no DX, and still runs the same games you run on Windows with DirectX. Go figure.

All about money.

StrayKATI could never do anything with it as a gamer.

I do plenty. Android has some of the best emulators available. And it's got some very good offerings as far as mainstream gaming is concerned. Go look on the PlayStore, I think you'd be surprised how much good gaming you'll find.

StrayKATI can't do anything, period. I only have a dummy google account for just youtube.

That's personal preference. I don't do a whole lot more, but certainly more than just YouTube.

StrayKATFor all this talk of security, I'm wary of Google just by design. Luckily the cloud is optional with MS....and even if you do use it, it's limited and not integral to the whole OS.

The main difference between Google and MS is transparency. Google publicly declares what data they collect and how they do it. They also allow the option not to participate. This is backed up by the fact that most of their source code can be inspected and has been. Microsoft says they do things a certain way, and have been proven to be liars. And their code sources are closed. Google's data collection is still undesirable, but at least we know that they are not doing more than what is known publicly, and we can turn it off. With Windows 10, turning off data collection is like pulling teeth from an uncooperative rhinoceros. And even then you have to wonder if they're going to do it behind your back with a code sneak in an update package. The public has more confidence in Google for that reason alone.

Beastie7 is nothing like XP.

Towards the end of MS supporting XP-
It was bloated by updates (a clean install took a day to update on my old core duo)
It was full of security vulnerabilities which MS struggled to keep up with
W7 offered better stability, speed and smaller footprint with no downsides

7 still works fine. XP (despite being a good OS in its day) was dead in the water by the time MS gave up on it.

10 has DX12. That's about all it has to offer above 7 ATM.

Chinese are like "if it ain't bust don't fix it".

You haven't clean-installed Windows 7 SP1 recently I see. I did just that about 2 weeks ago and HOLY FUCKING SHIT it's slow. And that's after somehow lucking out and not getting the bug that blocks windows update for ~9 hours unless you install KB3138612. Which we ended up nuking immediately to upgrade to 10 again (weird activation shenanigans hapenned).

PS: Windows 7 support ends in April 2020, so may as well move now.

lexluthermiesterI do plenty. Android has some of the best emulators available. And it's got some very good offerings as far as mainstream gaming is concerned. Go look on the PlayStore, I think you'd be surprised how much good gaming you'll find.

That's personal preference. I don't do a whole lot more, but certainly more than just YouTube.

The main difference between Google and MS is transparency. Google publicly declares what data they collect and how they do it. They also allow the option not to participate. This is backed up by the fact that most of their source code can be inspected and has been. Microsoft says they do things a certain way, and have been proven to be liars. And their code sources are closed. Google's data collection is still undesirable, but at least we know that they are not doing more than what is known publicly, and we can turn it off. With Windows 10, turning off data collection is like pulling teeth from an uncooperative rhinoceros. And even then you have to wonder if they're going to do it behind your back with a code sneak in an update package. The public has more confidence in Google for that reason alone.

Haha

Hahahahahahaha

AAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA

Oh, the delusion is strong with this one. Google and MS both declare what data they're collecting upfront on their properties, sure, but have you ever though about the sheer amount of data Google brings in via undisclosed analytics on all your favourite websites? Including our very own techpowerup? Or by serving up scripts that other sites need to run at all (like imgur.com)? or by every youtube embed? Google is the absolute best at data collection over the global internet, and only facebook really keeps up, mostly via sheer user numbers and some seriously sketchy abuse of cookies and page elements.

For the most part, you can't turn off the more insidious Google tracking - at best you evade it some of the time. Or you could stop using about 2/3rds of the internet.. that works too.

As for the code, Google only open-sources some of it. Most of their code is fully closed-source and kept very, very secure to the best of their ability. I mean, you ain't getting any of the GMail code, for example. Or anything from Google Play Services on your Android phone. Or Maps. You get the gist of it.

ZeDestructorHaha

Hahahahahahaha

AAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA

Really?

ZeDestructorOh, the delusion is strong with this one.

Oh?

ZeDestructorGoogle and MS both declare what data they're collecting upfront on their properties, sure, but have you ever though about the sheer amount of data Google brings in via undisclosed analytics on all your favourite websites?

Sure did. Not related to context of this discussion. I was taking about data collection from devices themselves, not the websites they visit.

ZeDestructorIncluding our very own techpowerup?

Hmm, let me check my security plugins... Yeah, Nope! Google Analytics is blocked. You were saying?

ZeDestructorOr by serving up scripts that other sites need to run at all (like imgur.com)? or by every youtube embed? Google is the absolute best at data collection over the global internet, and only facebook really keeps up, mostly via sheer user numbers and some seriously sketchy abuse of cookies and page elements.

You're just grasping at straws at this point.

ZeDestructorFor the most part, you can't turn off the more insidious Google tracking - at best you evade it some of the time. Or you could stop using about 2/3rds of the internet.. that works too.

It would seem clear that you don't know how to do it.

ZeDestructorAs for the code, Google only open-sources some of it. Most of their code is fully closed-source and kept very, very secure to the best of their ability. I mean, you ain't getting any of the GMail code, for example. Or anything from Google Play Services on your Android phone. Or Maps. You get the gist of it.

You said something about delusion, irony much?

lexluthermiesterReally?

I felt it was necessary to express my derisive laughter

lexluthermiesterOh?

Seemingly

lexluthermiesterSure did. Not related to context of this discussion. I was taking about data collection from devices themselves, not the websites they visit.

Practically every non-Chinese Android device has Google Play Services installed, to do all the data collection while providing a bunch of neat libraries for devs. Many things absolutely need it to function, like the Play Store for example, and all other Google apps. Many non-Google apps, especially games, also rely on Play Services, which means you'll never see em on any other store than the Play store. Thankfully it's not as pervasive as it could with third-party apps be thanks to the sheer size of the Chinese market.

Besides, with how much we use the internet, how is tracking your web habits not even worse than tracking what apps you're running? I mean, for myself, my app usage looks something tlike this today: Firefox, Thunderbird, Firefox, Firefox, Firefox, Steam -> Path of Exile, Firefox, Firefox, Thunderbird, Firefox, etc.

lexluthermiesterHmm, let me check my security plugins... Yeah, Nope! Google Analytics is blocked. You were saying?

Same here (uMatrix is quite excellent). Sadly, not everyone blocks all such scripts, and when it comes to transparency, please, do point me to somewhere on TPU where Google Analytics is explicitly mentioned to be active at all. Or pretty much any mainstream site out there. Also, if you're willing to use a blocker in your browser, why are you not willing to use a blocker/remover for Windows?

Keep in mind as well, by blocking "unnecessary" parts of the website, we're also denying TPU and other sites from ad-based income (and you can be damn sure that the ads have as much tracking as can be stuffed in em), which makes us utter dicks to the site owner. Food for thought.

lexluthermiesterYou're just grasping at straws at this point.

Block ajax.google.com on gsmarena.com and tell me how well it goes for you (hint: it breaks the loading of high-res pictures in the image viewer). Other sites get even more broken, like humblebundle (no pictures at all) when you block apis.google.com.

These are just 2 examples I got by scrolling through my currently open tabs. I've seen sites that demand ajax.google.com, apis.google.com, gstatic.com, and www.google.com all at the same time, which is downright impressive at showing how crappily they're coded, but this is how the web is these days, sadly.

lexluthermiesterIt would seem clear that you don't know how to do it.

I do it, until I get forced to allow Google through (yay smaller sites without their own CDN). As a paid GSuite user, I don't mind the Google spying all that much because I trust (current) Google to keep my data safe and private enough (I trust current MS too, for the record).

lexluthermiesterYou said something about delusion, irony much?

Maybe delusion was a tad strong. Definitely less-informed though, I reckon.

EDIT: Also, if you know where Google has published the source code for anything that isn't orchestration tooling or core support libraries, please, do share. I could really use a self-hosted GMail...

MS will pass us in strength dx12 and it's a shame when you vulkan on the market.

Vulkan and more interesting in globality, programming and more flexible, less stress on it, it has the big advantage of being compatible with win 7, 8, 10

RAIZEN95MS will pass us in strength dx12 and it's a shame when you vulkan on the market.

Vulkan and more interesting in globality, programming and more flexible, less stress on it, it has the big advantage of being compatible with win 7, 8, 10

And also Linux. Monopoly.

bring in all the braggers!

lexluthermiesterReally?

Sure did. Not related to context of this discussion. I was taking about data collection from devices themselves, not the websites they visit.

yeah, because this was straight onto the point of the discussion about chinese people gaming PUBG on win7....

Bottom line folks; Windows 10, in comparison to Microsoft's greatest version of Windows[XP] and it's finest[7], is a crap-show. And the real, willful adoption numbers bare that out. Not to mention the ever increasing number of users who are either back-tracking to Windows 7 or abandoning the Windows platform altogether for Android, iOS and others. There is a reason Android is now the most used OS on the planet.

AND BTW, who compares mobile phones oses to a full fledged multipurpose one?

ZeDestructorKeep in mind as well, by blocking "unnecessary" parts of the website, we're also denying TPU and other sites from ad-based income (and you can be damn sure that the ads have as much tracking as can be stuffed in em), which makes us utter dicks to the site owner. Food for thought.

ZeDestructorMaybe delusion was a tad strong. Definitely less-informed though, I reckon.

Actually, that is incorrect. TPU has come up with a very clever and yet very old-school way to show ads and earn revenue even when adblockers and javascript blockers are used. At this moment, on the main page, I am seeing ads for the Gskill Ripjaws Gaming keyboards, The Seasonic Focus+ PS's and the Toshiba SSD's. They have answered the call to privacy/security advocates while still showing the ads they need to, Which I applaud and wish more website would do. So that would prove as evidence that you are, in fact, the less-informed/uninformed.

BoosnieAND BTW, who compares mobile phones oses to a full fledged multipurpose one?

That's simple, mobile devices have become a lot of people's primary computing platform, in many cases their only platform, so the comparison is valid within that context. And let's face it, Android and iOS are very much multipurpose fully functioning OS's at this point in time. Heck, AndroidX86[www.android-x86.org/] and PhoenixOS[www.phoenixos.com/] are very much full fledged implementations of Android.

The ultimate point is that Microsoft is still playing their game like they're kings of the OS/software hill when the reality is they're not and continuing to lose ground. They're playing hard-ball with the general public and we're not taking any of their nonsense. The Chinese general public apparently aren't either. Microsoft's ship is sinking and they refuse to acknowledge and accept accountability for their own failures.

Manu_PTOSX is a closed UNIX based OS. The devices you generally need to use it are expensive for the hardware and materials it has. Can´t be compared with a simple Linux Distro that you can install on any device.

Linux is better than any OS, simply it doesn´t get the same support because of money. That´s all. From F1 2017 to Dota 2, CS GO, TF2, all of them run better on Linux and with better frame times. But 99% of the games still require DirectX. However a closed device like a PS4, only uses openGL and Vulkan, no DX, and still runs the same games you run on Windows with DirectX. Go figure.

All about money.

It's had tons of chances. And tons of cash from the biggest tech companies on the planet. I've been using it off and on for over 20 years now. The only thing keeping down is it's own sense of chaos. Open Source is a double edged sword. For some markets it works better. But this isn't one of them.

lexluthermiesterANY OS is secure when run offline. That statement is as redundant as it is pointless. XP hasn't received many updates because it actually has fewer vulnerabilities. Microsoft is still supporting XP for Point Of Sale and other industrial uses, the updates CAN be applied to standard installations of XP with a few "tweaks" and "workarounds". Microsoft worked very hard for more than a decade to make XP rock solid. While I agree with you about recommending and using a newer OS, to say the XP is useless and can't be secured is a completely false and uninformed.

Those are are conclusions that lack factual merit and objective reasoning, while at the same time making seriously flawed assumptions.

THAT would be fun to watch!

While the modules part is more or less accurate, it applies equally to Windows 8/8.1 because of the same basic design. All the "tiles" and the apps they're based on each provide a method to gain access to the system they run on. This kind of functionality is fundamentally and inherently flawed from a security standpoint.

Not to mention all the forced upgrades.

Bottom line folks; Windows 10, in comparison to Microsoft's greatest version of Windows[XP] and it's finest[7], is a crap-show. And the real, willful adoption numbers bare that out. Not to mention the ever increasing number of users who are either back-tracking to Windows 7 or abandoning the Windows platform altogether for Android, iOS and others. There is a reason Android is now the most used OS on the planet.

I hope you are joking.....

mroofieI hope you are joking.....

Not in the slightest. I personally know at least two dozen people who have dropped PC's in favor of their Phones/Tablets as a computing platform. Mobile platforms are becoming so powerful that they can in many ways[but not all] compete with PC's in general functionality. Fewer people are buying PC's as evidenced by the decline in PC sales over the last several years. People just don't want or need them anymore. And it's hard to get the public excited about a Microsoft product when the company goes out of their way to lie to, annoy, spy on and treat the public like criminals.

Manu_PTI can hack into your Win 10 in 20 minutes or less if you give me your IP right now. I can´t do it on 8.1 or 7. Why? Go figure. Please don´t talk about what you don´t know.

Windows 10 runs on a bunch of separate modules. It is flawed and has too many vulnerabilities. That´s why hackers are literally toying with it, and that´s why no big company is wanting to use it anymore. The biggest ones are either migrating from 7 to Linux or just upgrading to 8.1.

You guys must understand that Windows 10 only has a good amount of users, because it was free for a long time and you can get it for free from MS store (altho with customization limitations). That´s all. In the past every Windows would cost like 200 bucks in my country for a Retail copy, so upgrading was a slower process. Windows 10 is one of the worst editions since Windows ME.

My IP? The same one which is identical for few blocks of buildings? Good luck. Or are you going to break into my ISP?
So, who is toying with what? Some 1337 hackz0rz, because they said so on some forum?

Yes, tell me again, how business are moving to Linux, especially Fortune 500. I would love to see that. Upgrading to 8.1? Very funny.

Device Guard, Credential Guard, improved memory protection and so on. They did not even exist on W8.1 or older versions.

lexluthermiesterGonna have to go with, um, yeah; No! When Microsoft stops invading our privacy and remembers the WE own our PC's then maybe, just maybe, we'll all shut up about it.

Joking or not, you are incorrect. It is running dead even as to the number of vulnerabilities discovered in the first and second years of deployment as Vista, 7 , 8 and 8.1. XP actually had fewer.

Baseless? Hardly. I work very closely with technology professionally. It is literally part of my job description to evaluate the security and viability of the IT systems we work with. Windows 10 is laughable from a true security stand point.

Incorrect. Windows 7 will still continue to receive security updates as well as critical fixes until 2020, as per Microsoft's EOL service declarations.

How again MS is invading your privacy? By gathering logs about wheter OS setup was successful? xD
Upgrades =/= updates. I am pretty sure we were talking about OS upgrades, not monthly patches. So no, W10 upgrades stopped year ago, unless you use (or abuse) assistive technologies upgrade option.

And again, Credential Guard, Device Guard, Defender Advanced Threat Protection and so on.

EasoHow again MS is invading your privacy? By gathering logs about wheter OS setup was successful? xD
Upgrades =/= updates. I am pretty sure we were talking about OS upgrades, not monthly patches. So no, W10 upgrades stopped year ago, unless you use (or abuse) assistive technologies upgrade option.

And again, Credential Guard, Device Guard, Defender Advanced Threat Protection and so on.

With a little more effort placed into the results of a search about what Microsoft collects, you would have a better understanding. It is well beyond what you believe.

Privacy is a very big deal. It is as important as fundamental rights. The problem is that populations have been socially engineered to be unaware of its significant importance in our lives. If you don't believe that fine, but surely you can recognize the lack of emphasis and education on the matter.

Yes, there needs to be a compromise between individuals and companies when interacting with each over online mediums, but this needs to be a discussion that ends in an understanding for all parties involved.