notbAnd are you sure this applies to commercial use? I.e. does a company also have the right to use things however it wants? Or is it just the consumers?

notbWhat about typical software licenses?

notbIf you're right about NV, what stops companies from using non-commercial software?

notbIn most cases (Microsoft, for example) a fully featured free version is available for learning. Why are companies paying millions for commercial SQL Server or Visual Studio?

RhysehThis is an update to the GeForce EULA. How is this different to any other EULA enforcement case?

lexluthermiesterIn the USA, and most of the civilized world, entities are treated as actual citizens, unfortunately. This status gives them the same, if not similar, rights.

They do not apply the same way. Any software that is required by or requires to function a specific hardware part, is legally bound to that hardware as a package. Manufacturers do not ever have the right to tell a private entity, be they are person, government, busines, etc., what they may or may not do with property they own. To lesser degree, the same applies to software as a stand alone product.

The software dev can ask, they can even try to require that only commercial/business products be used in such environments, but statutory ownership/usage rights superceed those conditions and even copyright law itself.

Just because something is in a contract doesn't automatically make it enforceable or even lawful. That's why consumer protection laws exist the world over. Those same laws generally apply to all consumers, including businesses. In this case, NVidia is blowing wind out their bum.

newtekie1Hosting machines don't use Titans. This won't affect hosting costs one bit.


Or, you know, it could be that the data center companies advertise machines with desktop cards right on their websites...

londisteOr rather, they do, but businesses are not always defined to be part of consumers.

londisteEnforcability is actually a really good question. I have a feeling that Nvidia has no plans to take this to court because that would just take too long. Cloud service provider likely has other contracts with Nvidia that will be used as leverage. Btw, Titans are almost exclusively sold by Nvidia themselves and warranty terms also state that datacenter usage voids warranty.

londisteAlso, I do not think the current TitanX case is the real problem Nvidia wants to tackle. Given the timing of EULA change, they want to prevent Titan Vs from being deployed in datacenters in large numbers.

qubitThis nasty tactic is what happens when competition disappears - monopoly practices. Notice how NVIDIA don't say no to cryptomining. Why? Because AMD are still competitive there and actually beat NVIDIA hands down, that's why.

It could well be that a lawsuit will stop them doing this. After all, datacentre operators have got money behind them unlike the average Joe like us and can fight back against such malpractice.

Aquinushostility against the open source community

londistequbit, what exactly makes this tactic nasty? Product segmentation is done by everyone.

They are not excluding cryptomining because AMD is more competitive there. They are excluding it because there is money in it for them unlike using Geforces for GPGPU/HPC applications.

Lawsuit, which is not likely to happen or I would say is not likely to be won by datacenter operators, would probably result in no more fully functional Titans rather than any other outcome. The reason datacenter operators have got money behind them is that they make money off the service that at least in part relies on the hardware in question. That makes it contractually and legally different from consumer use of cards.

AquinusnVidia, the way you're meant to get played.

These kinds of business practices along with the hostility against the open source community is the very reason why I'm tolerating my 390.

qubitThere's a difference between genuine product segmentation and an obvious money grab, which this is.

A genuine example of product segmentation is between a GeForce card and it's Quadro or Tesla equivalent. Those professional cards will have near enough the same processing power in games, but have other hardware and software differences, such as more reliable hardware (eg ECC memory) cherry picked GPUs and general board design and greater effort spent on debugging and validation of the hardware and drivers as well as better customer support from NVIDIA. That's where all that extra money goes - as well as a reassuringly expensive markup, of course. ;)

qubitAnd yes, it's exactly because they know AMD is competitive in crypto. What do you think would happen if they excluded that too? All data centres using their cards for crypto would go AMD. Duh!

londisteWait, what are you saying? When we look at what Quadro or Tesla equivalents provide over Geforce, then:
Hardware differences - Perhaps minor but check
Software differences - Check
More reliable hardware, board design etc - Check.
Greater effort on debugging validation etc - Check
Drivers and support - Check
Reassuringly expensive markup - Definitely check
What makes it not a genuine segmentation?

qubitI'm not sure you're comprehending properly here. I said, "A genuine example of product segmentation is between a GeForce card and it's Quadro or Tesla equivalent" and then went on to list those differences you checked off. So how did you manage to understand the opposite? Maybe you just got confused which I could forgive you for. Also, I wouldn't call a more expensive type of RAM with error correction a minor difference.

qubitI don't know why you're still arguing about the cryptomining.

notbThe short answer is: by buying software you're signing the EULA, which is fundamentally built around copyright (no other way, to be honest).

valentyn0Buying software? where the hell did Sakura buy software? they bought gpus, not software, and EULA is worthless in courts, EULA does not mean anything in a court, btw, a peasant or a big company can use however they see fit a product they bought (except software in some cases).

DimiYeah because we should all enjoy large datacenter companies gobble up ALL of the CONSUMER oriented gpu's so prices will go even higher for regular CONSUMER grade video cards and then we can complain to Nvidia that our Geforce cards are expensive in stores right?

This is a good move from Nvidia.

anubis44And people continue to feed this Green Goblin. They can keep doing what they want because people buy their stuff, even when it's worse than AMD's.

john_Nvidia can always produce more Titan/GeForce cards, or lower the price of Tesla/Quadro cards. Whatever suits them better.

anubis44And people continue to feed this Green Goblin. They can keep doing what they want because people buy their stuff, even when it's worse than AMD's.