eidairaman1It truly isn't worth 300 usd or more

it isn't,but everyone's jacking up prices these days,and midrange nvidia cards are no exception. I'd rather have this at 350 than rx590,second refresh of polaris with ddr5 at friggin 280, no question about that.If the leak is to be true, 2060 is 35-40% faster while more efficient at the same time.

Let's judge the value when we see the pricing and actual performance.
The performance level suggested in the "leak" puts this close to GTX 1080, and also Vega 64. If this is accurate, and it's priced below Vega 64, it will be a much better buy.

efikkanLet's judge the value when we see the pricing and actual performance.
The performance level suggested in the "leak" puts this close to GTX 1080, and also Vega 64. If this is accurate, and it's priced below Vega 64, it will be a much better buy.

Agreed.

NxodusYou can't expect every new generation to be 100% faster than the last one, technology slows down naturally after hitting a peak. I really don't understand why people think the 20 series is a rip-off. You have high expectations for the upcoming AMD cards but it will be the same thing, a minor improvement, and die shrinks wont change that. Better get used to it that we hit a peak and new generations will only have a "minor" improvement over the last ones

Its quite simple, perf/dollar. It used to improve with every generation, and with Turing, it does not. And that is bad, seeing as we've already been looking at Pascal's performance for quite some time now. Turing is relatively late, and advances nothing in terms of absolute performance. It just added a new 1200 dollar tier on top of the stack.

As an added bonus you get functionality that is currently implemented in ONE game and never really makes a difference in its overall experience, and the majority of the Turing product stack hasn't even got enough RT cores to make use of it proper.

As my sources point out, if you read the numbers right, its not even a minor improvement at all. GPU performance increases have grinded to a complete halt at every price point except 1200 bucks. All to facilitate some new feature nobody knows will be vaporware or not in a few years.

Now, the most important part of all this, is what you've just said yourself: its not realistic to keep expecting massive performance jumps ad infinitum. In that vein, isn't it especially strange for Nvidia to spend 30% of the die space not on absolute performance, but on some new feature that only works for a tiny selection of games?

There is only one logic behind all of this, and that is trying to maximize the cashflow generated from already deployed tech. Turing's RT is no more than repurposed Volta technology, and Nvidia just threw it at the gaming wall to see if it sticks. So to me, the only real question here is "Do you want to support that business practice" or not. I don't, because I know that will make future GPUs that much more expensive to make for questionable benefits.

efikkanLet's judge the value when we see the pricing and actual performance.
The performance level suggested in the "leak" puts this close to GTX 1080, and also Vega 64. If this is accurate, and it's priced below Vega 64, it will be a much better buy.

I agree. If it provides 1080/V64 perf at 350 (and not the hamstrung bad VRAM/bus choice, shitty chip-version option... yeah that's a lot of caveats Nvidia's built into Turing these days!) then we have an actual perf/dollar improvement. Minor, but present.

We all know however that won't be the case, because the 2070 already takes that spot. So instead of fooling ourselves with some weird, illogical 'leaks' that misrepresent actual performance (as I've pointed out with the 1080ti stock vs 2080 OC examples), let's just get real.

Gonna borrow from another conversation for a moment with this breaking news story;

Some are proceeding with the logic that is based on the idea of comparing a 2060 to a 1070, a 1080 to a 2070, a 1080ti to a 2080 and a Titan to a 2080ti.

The rest of us are not doing that. We're comparing a 1060 to a 2060, 1070 to a 2070, a 1080 to a 2080, a 1080ti to a 2080ti and a GTX Titan to an RTX Titan.

We now return you to your normally scheduled conversation..

yup, looks like a graphics card.

2060 is gonna be 50-60% faster than 1060 if the leak is true. That's the biggest perf improvement out of the whole turing line-up,most are around 40%.If this is close to 1080 performance,then consider that 1080 runs 1440p faster than 1060 does 1080p.

lexluthermiesterThat's an opinion, not a merit based fact.

Also an opinion not based on merit. Yes, I paid a premium, but I also got a card which performs 50%-60% better than it's previous gen counterpart, which I traded up from. That is an improvement and certainly not "yesteryears" performance.

But it is positive that there has been a performance improvement.

Your. Misguided. Opinion.

No, anyone explaining that way appreciates the advancements and performance increase.

Highend cards haven't been $400 in almost 10 years. Your point is factless.

Your opinion. You're not the maker/manufacturer. You don't set prices. Vote with your wallet.

My arguments are based upon merit and fact. Yours were based on feelings. Invalidation rejected.

Anyone complaining about the price needs to learn how to budget their money better and save up for a bit longer to get the best, whether it's AMD or NVidia.

Yeah I did budget to get the 290 VaporX in 2014 because then I was in between jobs. In fact I budgeted that entire year to build the rig that is in my signature because of bills, life etc. I am just thinking of other users, 300 for a low end card is ridiculous when it should be no more than $250. I can see a 2070/ti being 300-350.

cucker tarlson2060 is gonna be 50-60% faster than 1060 if the leak is true. That's the biggest perf improvement out of the whole turing line-up,most are around 40%.If this is close to 1080 performance,then consider that 1080 runs 1440p faster than 1060 does 1080p.

Doesn't make sense though, because that will cannibalize the 2070 and we know that isn't Nvidia's style at all.

PSI vote with my wallet because I am on my 290 VaporX. I also dont advocate a company with the color of greed.

Every time a new lineup is released people complain about the pricing/value.

...you know that no matter the facts or what we think ....Nvdia will sell a ton of these. And yes of course its over priced...its called business and profit. They seem to have a good handle on what the market will bear. The mythical $350 high end video card...we'll have to wait and see just how disruptive Intel wants to be. But all in all don't complain about the price of Porsche's when your intent is to only buy a mustang. There is a model for everyone. Buy what makes you happy.

Easy RhinoEvery time a new lineup is released people complain about the pricing/value.

And every time sales will determine whether that was justified or not. So far, market share doesn't show RTX to be a smash hit, and neither does Nvidia's stock price.

Compare that to Pascal - we also complained about it, but we all got one. Even under further inflated mining prices.

Easy RhinoEvery time a new lineup is released people complain about the pricing/value.

Thank You. :rockout:

Vayra86So far, market share doesn't show RTX to be a smash hit, and neither does Nvidia's stock price.

And yet they regularly sellout everywhere. Funny that..

Vayra86Doesn't make sense though, because that will cannibalize the 2070 and we know that isn't Nvidia's style at all.

2070 is still faster than 1080. TPU says 20% but I trust hwunboxed review more and it shows 7%. 2060 is gonna be close to 15% slower than 2070. That's a difference. even 1070ti and 1080 coexist nicely with just under 10% and $100 between them.Remember 2070 has that extra 2gb too.

cucker tarlsonRemember 2070 has that extra 2gb too.

That's a good point.

Easy RhinoEvery time a new lineup is released people complain about the pricing/value.

not so much in the past. this time is worst and uncontrollable.

cucker tarlson2070 is still faster than 1080. TPU says 20% but I trust hwunboxed review more and it shows 7%. 2060 is gonna be close to 15% slower than 2070. That's a difference. even 1070ti and 1080 coexist nicely with just under 10% and $100 between them.Remember 2070 has that extra 2gb too.

Which means more memory bandwidth and more ROPs too.

Techspotuses OC custom gtx 1080(MSI Gaming X ) and TPU GTX 1080 FE, so in that way I trust more tpu it's more apples to apples comparison. That EVGA black review from TPU is stock to stock clocked both review.

Easy RhinoEvery time a new lineup is released people complain about the pricing/value.

Not everytime. Not everytime was like this, however. The fact is many are dissatisfied with the price to performance ratio these cards put forth. The problem is the value add (RT/TC) isnt there yet. One AAA title with another to come soon (SOTR)...and well over a dozen more listed. NV is being vilified for being first to the market with technology and the corresponding price increase.

The humerous part, to me, is the same people shooting down RT are the same people that propped up AMD and Vulkan pleading to give it time to see the value. While an API and HW are different things, I'm sure the astute are able to see the irony there.

People...we cant have RT without cards being in the market. SOMEONE had to be first...it just happened to be NV. I dont think anyone is buying these cards for RT capabilities now but for performance over last gen. And while it isnt what they were used to (likely due to RT and TC), there are notable differences in each tier (1080ti to 2080 ti, etc). Sure, it isnt what it was, but the price we all pay for innovation. How would we see RT implemented well if not for putting it in the market??

Pricing was a kick in the pants. Because the market adjusted, for better or worse, a lot of these cards are now a no brainer over last gen. It is what it is.


Anyway, looking forward to see facts about performance and pricing on the RTX 2060 and deciding then. 3 pages of this discussion...jeeezus.lol

Edit: the source in the first post doesnt have those results...where are those from?????

Oh my, so much hate for something yet to be released.

So yeah, we all want RTX Titan performance at no more than $250 and great overclockabily. That won’t happen unless there is competition.

lexluthermiesterSome are proceeding with the logic that is based on the idea of comparing a 2060 to a 1070, a 1080 to a 2070, a 1080ti to a 2080 and a Titan to a 2080ti.

Ideally they should match the last gen next tier, especially if you're gonna bump up the price.

I recently looked at the price I paid for my cpu and gpu back when I built my PC in 2011 and I was pretty shocked. 185€ for Intel's top midrange CPU and 170€ for a 560 Ti. Compare that to today's pricing and midrange is considerably more expensive. And then you look over at console pricing and it's a lot more tame. Sometimes it looks like they are trying to kill the desktop market.

cucker tarlson2070 is still faster than 1080. TPU says 20% but I trust hwunboxed review more and it shows 7%. 2060 is gonna be close to 15% slower than 2070. That's a difference. even 1070ti and 1080 coexist nicely with just under 10% and $100 between them.Remember 2070 has that extra 2gb too.

1070ti and 1080 only coexist nicely because 1080's suddenly became hard to find at reasonable pricing after the 1070ti launched ;)

Nvidia controls the supply chain very well - that overstock on Pascal cards? It was never an issue, and might have even been a contingency for Turing. They also showed with their FEs that they know exactly what buttons to push to get AIBs to get in line.

EarthDogNot everytime. Not everytime was like this, however. The fact is many are dissatisfied with the price to performance ratio these cards put forth. The problem is the value add (RT/TC) isnt there yet. One AAA title with another to come soon (SOTR)...and well over a dozen more listed. NV is being vilified for being first to the market with technology and the corresponding price increase.

The humerous part, to me, is the same people shooting down RT are the same people that propped up AMD and Vulkan pleading to give it time to see the value. While an API and HW are different things, I'm sure the astute are able to see the irony there.

People...we cant have RT without cards being in the market. SOMEONE had to be first...it just happened to be NV. I dont think anyone is buying these cards for RT capabilities now but for performance over last gen. And while it isnt what they were used to (likely due to RT and TC), there are notable differences in each tier (1080ti to 2080 ti, etc). Sure, it isnt what it was, but the price we all pay for innovation. How would we see RT implemented well if not for putting it in the market??

Pricing was a kick in the pants. Because the market adjusted, for better or worse, a lot of these cards are now a no brainer over last gen. It is what it is.


Anyway, looking forward to see facts about performance and pricing on the RTX 2060 and deciding then. 3 pages of this discussion...jeeezus.lol

Edit: the source in the first post doesnt have those results...where are those from?????

I like this reading of the whole Turing deal to be honest with you. It all hinges on whether DXR will stick or not. So far I'm not convinced...

SIGSEGVnot so much in the past. this time is worst and uncontrollable.

I can think of at least three other times were the percentage jump in price was comparable to this one. The Geforce 2 to Geforce 3, the FX 5X00 series to 6X00 series and the 9X00 Series to the GTX 2X0 series. And that's just NVidia. ATI had two instances where the generational price jump was huge. ATI justified it because of vertex shaders and such, as did NVidia. 3DFX did one as well. The Voodoo 2 was twice the price of the Voodoo 1.

xkm1948Oh my, so much hate for something yet to be released.

That's what I was thinking..

EarthDogNot everytime. Not everytime was like this, however. The fact is many are dissatisfied with the price to performance ratio these cards put forth. The problem is the value add (RT/TC) isnt there yet. One AAA title with another to come soon (SOTR)...and well over a dozen more listed. NV is being vilified for being first to the market with technology and the corresponding price increase.

The humerous part, to me, is the same people shooting down RT are the same people that propped up AMD and Vulkan pleading to give it time to see the value. While an API and HW are different things, I'm sure the astute are able to see the irony there.

People...we cant have RT without cards being in the market. SOMEONE had to be first...it just happened to be NV. I dont think anyone is buying these cards for RT capabilities now but for performance over last gen. And while it isnt what they were used to (likely due to RT and TC), there are notable differences in each tier (1080ti to 2080 ti, etc). Sure, it isnt what it was, but the price we all pay for innovation. How would we see RT implemented well if not for putting it in the market??

Pricing was a kick in the pants. Because the market adjusted, for better or worse, a lot of these cards are now a no brainer over last gen. It is what it is.


Anyway, looking forward to see facts about performance and pricing on the RTX 2060 and deciding then. 3 pages of this discussion...jeeezus.lol

I am excited for more games to support Vulkan.

Anyway, I hope this also forces AMD to do something as well. But we will wait a while. And I hope prices eventually drop unlike what happened for the last 2 - 3 years.

RahnakSometimes it looks like they are trying to kill the desktop market.

Make no mistake, if they could, they would.