Stardock will win. And counter-sue for all damages incurred(which they will also win). Paul and Fred will go down in history as 2 of the biggest dumbasses to have ever walked the face of the Earth.

MrGeniusStardock will win. And counter-sue for all damages incurred(which they will also win). Paul and Fred will go down in history as 2 of the biggest dumbasses to have ever walked the face of the Earth.

Amen!

considering the resulting loss of income due to the DMCA claim

What loss? As I have read, the game was capable of sucking on its own, it didn't need DMCA to underperform.

bugWhat loss? As I have read, the game was capable of sucking on its own, it didn't need DMCA to underperform.

I have a special place in my heart for Stardock. But for this game, sadly, spot on.

How To Bankrupt Yourself 101.

What a bunch of geniuses.

MrGeniusStardock will win.

Very likely.

MrGeniusAnd counter-sue for all damages incurred(which they will also win).

Very unlikely. Stardock would have the burden of proving that the original legal action was unfounded or out of malice, which can be very difficult.

The Stardock source link is bad.

bugWhat loss? As I have read, the game was capable of sucking on its own, it didn't need DMCA to underperform.

What? The game is actually pretty good.

lexluthermiesterVery unlikely. Stardock would have the burden of proving that the original legal action was unfounded or out of malice, which can be very difficult.

All Stardock has to do is show the judge they own the IP because they bought it from Atari (Accolade was original IP owner -> Infrogrames bought Accolade -> Atari bought Infrogrames -> Stardock bought the IP from Atari). The original authors don't have a leg to stand on because they relinquished their claims to Atari; moreover, Ford and Reiche may have to hand over everything they did on "Star Control: Ghosts of the Precursors" because it is in violation of the copyrights Stardock holds.

Yes, Ford and Reiche can be sued for defamation and damages. Stardock will likely win that lawsuit as well.


One of the emails says Stardock is paying a 15% royalty on the original IP (specifically characters and ships) + $1000 to Reiche/year for as long as Star Dock 1 & 2 are for sale. In other words, Ford and Reiche bit the hand that feeds.


Yup, Ford and Reiche are violating Stardock's licenses. Ford and Reiche are screwed. Wardell was more than generous towards them and they persistently ignored him to their disadvantage. Wardell is going to have to throw Ford and Reiche under the bus because he legally has to in order to protect Star Control I, II, III, and Origins.

This picture spells it out:

#2 "Publisher" is now "Stardock." Ford and Reiche's game violate this agreement.
#3 Stardock can and did do that.
#4 Is where Ford and Reiche may feel they are owed royalties. They will argue #3 was violated. Stardock will argue Ford and Reiche forfeited this point because no game using their IP has been created in over 20 years. Further, Star Control: Origins is not a sequel. Stardock will also argue that they *own* the trademarks and that's all Stardock used in creating Star Control: Origins. They did not use Ford/Reiche's intellectual property; ergo, no royalties are owed.
#5 Ford and Reiche have hugely violated this term. Stardock did not approve the creation of Ford and Reiche's game.
#7 The terms above are still in effect.

This was back in 2017 so Wardell ends saying that no one has violated that agreement yet because #5, Ford and Reiche haven't announced their game yet.

Wardell laid down the law in the remainder of the email. Ford and Reiche's game really must be published by Stardock because Stardock owns the trademarks and rights to publish sequels. Ford and Reiche should have jumped at the opportunity.


Instead, Ford and Reiche claim that Atari failed to pay the $1000 every year to maintain the license so they argue that the previous license is void. Worst case scenario, a judge may order Stardock to backpay what Atari missed. Because the purchase agreement between Stardock and Atari is undeniably legitimate, there's no way a judge is going to metaphorically rip up the original agreement.



Ford and Reiche have refused to settle repeatedly. This is going to court and Ford/Reiche aren't going to like the outcome.

FordGT90ConceptAll Stardock has to do is show the judge they own the IP because they bought it from Atari (Accolade was original IP owner -> Infrogrames bought Accolade -> Atari bought Infrogrames -> Stardock bought the IP from Atari). The original authors don't have a leg to stand on because they relinquished their claims to Atari; moreover, Ford and Reiche may have to hand over everything they did on "Star Control: Ghosts of the Precursors" because it is in violation of the copyrights Stardock holds.

Yes, Ford and Reiche can be sued for defamation and damages. Stardock will likely win that lawsuit as well.


One of the emails says Stardock is paying a 15% royalty on the original IP (specifically characters and ships) + $1000 to Reiche/year for as long as Star Dock 1 & 2 are for sale. In other words, Ford and Reiche bit the hand that feeds.


Yup, Ford and Reiche are violating Stardock's licenses. Ford and Reiche are screwed. Wardell was more than generous towards them and they persistently ignored him to their disadvantage. Wardell is going to have to throw Ford and Reiche under the bus because he legally has to in order to protect Star Control I, II, III, and Origins.

Logically, I agree with you. Unfortunately, it's never as cut and dried simple as that in civil court, especially with copyright law.

Stardock literally holds all of the cards. The only reason why it has dragged out so long is because Wardell doesn't want to sue Ford/Reiche.

FordGT90ConceptStardock literally holds all of the cards.

We'll see. The devil is in the details..

There is absolutely no way for Ford/Reiche to dispute the fact that Stardock owns the trademarks to Star Control and they violated those trademarks repeatedly. If Wardell choose to sue, Ford/Reiche don't have a leg to stand on. If they want to make any "Star Control" game, they require license to do so from Stardock.

The only "devil" is in the defamation side of things, not the legal side.


Wardell needs to stop pretending Ford/Reiche are his friends. Wardell has been extremely friendly towards them and they've been anything but in response. He needs to take them to court, seize control of "Ghost of the Precursors" (which they have no license to), get damages for defamation, and get a restraining order on them in regards to discussing Star Control beyond the two games they worked on. If it were EA or Activision instead of Stardock, this lawsuit would have happened a year ago.

FordGT90ConceptThere is absolutely no way for Ford/Reiche to dispute the fact that Stardock owns the trademarks to Star Control and they violated those trademarks repeatedly. If Wardell choose to sue, Ford/Reiche don't have a leg to stand on. If they want to make any "Star Control" game, they require license to do so from Stardock.

The only "devil" is in the defamation side of things, not the legal side. Ford/Reiche don't have a leg to stand on in that regard.

That's not what the information states. Stardock has rights to what they created and the trademark name of the games, however not exclusively and not to the original 2 games or any content therein, which is where the details "devil" plays in. You're also relying heavily on Stardocks own statements to arrive at your conclusion, which is seemingly entirely one sided. A court can not do this. All parties have to be given a fair opportunity to submit and present their arguments.

lexluthermiesterThat's not what the information states. Stardock has rights to what they created and the trademark name of the games, however not exclusively and not to the original 2 games or any content therein, which is where the details "devil" plays in. You're also relying heavily on Stardocks own statements to arrive at your conclusion, which is seemingly entirely one sided. A court can not do this. All parties have to be given a fair opportunity to submit and present their arguments.

Stardock has more rights than that. But there are the two major things. Stardock has the trademark name - which the other side is clearly violating if the license agreement Stardock bought from Atari holds. Stardock have repeatedly stated that no original IP is used and as far as we can see that does appear to be true. There have been various demands from Ford and Reiche (and Stardock's QA page does seem to have a fairly objective list of these) but again, given that the licensing agreement holds, they have no ground for those.

FordGT90ConceptInstead, Ford and Reiche claim that Atari failed to pay the $1000 every year to maintain the license so they argue that the previous license is void.

That is the crux of this entire dispute. Stardock does show this (at least in one of the emails) on their QA page but downplays it.

Ford and Reiche's countersuit states that no royalties were paid to Reiche after 2000 at the latest which would expire the licensing agreement.
If that can be established, it will devolve into a stupid three-way between Ford/Reiche, Atari and Stardock. And it's a crapshoot :(

It'll be interesting to see how it plays out.

londisteFord and Reiche's countersuit states that no royalties were paid to Reiche after 2000 at the latest which would expire the licensing agreement.
If that can be established, it will devolve into a stupid three-way between Ford/Reiche, Atari and Stardock. And it's a crapshoot :(

Even if the original agreement is null and void, Stardock still owns Star Control, Star Control II, Star Control III, Star Control: Origins, and publishing rights to all previous and future "Star Control" properties as per trademark law. If a court rules that the original agreement is void because Atari failed to pay, then Stardock no longer has to pay royalties to the original developers (including Ford and Reiche).

There's literally no legal path Ford and Reiche have to creating their own Star Control game without obtaining a license to do so from Stardock.


The only thing Ford and Reiche can do, at all, is claim royalties for use of their original characters, ships, and story from Star Control and Star Control II. That's it. They have no ownership of anything. Stardock deliberately stayed away from using that stuff so Stardock owes them nothing except royalties made on sales of Star Control (the first game, not in general) and Star Control II which they have been paying.


A court may order Stardock to backpay the money Atari failed to pay ($12,000 for 2000-2013) but that's the absolute most Reiche (Ford is not part of that agreement) will legally get out of Stardock.

FordGT90ConceptEven if the original agreement is null and void, Stardock still owns Star Control, Star Control II, Star Control III, Star Control: Origins, and publishing rights to all previous and future "Star Control" properties as per trademark law. If a court rules that the original agreement is void because Atari failed to pay, then Stardock no longer has to pay royalties to the original developers (including Ford and Reiche).

Stardock owns Star Control trademark and Star Control III.
Star Control and Star Control II are Ford and Reiche's, Accolade/Atari and subsequently Stardock have a distribution agreement. If I remember the timeline correctly Atari messed up and the agreement was recreated with proceeds going to both Atari as well as Ford and Reiche. Stardock does not contest this nor the IP in these being owned by Ford and Reiche.

As far as the outcome this depends on how the legalese in the original agreement is written and how it will be interpreted by lawyers on both sides as well as court.

FordGT90ConceptThere's literally no legal path Ford and Reiche have to creating their own Star Control game without obtaining a license to do so from Stardock.

Ford and Reiche state that this is their right as the original agreement expired with copyright and everything else reverting to Reiche.

Negative. Stardock owns all of Star Control and Star Control II but royalties are owed to Reiche for the sales thereof. Said differently: Reiche has no right to publish Star Control nor Star Control II, Stardock does.

Wardell cited the 1988 contract that he purchased from Atari.

Copyrights last ~70 years. Trademarks never expire so long as fees to register it were maintained (and they were).

Nothing ever reverted to Reiche.

FordGT90ConceptNegative. Stardock owns all of Star Control and Star Control II but royalties are owed to Reiche for the sales thereof.

You're assuming it's as simple as that. It very likely isn't. While I agree with you that Stardock will very likely prevail, to assume the plaintiff's have no legitimate claim would be jumping the gun. It will be up to the court to work out this dispute, which is what the courts are there for.

WardellThe October 7, 1988 agreement remains in effect so long as your work and/or derivative work are generating royalties to the developer of $1,000 or more annually. We and Atari before us have been selling the products and paying royalties for many years. The fact that the product is available for sale now and you are collecting roaylties makes clear that the publishing agreement is in effect.

Reiche should have refused the payments if he believed the agreement was void and sought to change the publisher to his own so he could claim full ownership. If Reiche hasn't gotten paid since 2000, it was his duty to challenge Atari back in 2000, not Stardock 10+ years later. Reiche, by accepting the payments from Stardock, acknowledges the agreement is still in force.


Edit: I just went to Steam to add Star Control: Origins DLCs to my wishlist so I keep an eye on them and, yup, it's gone from the store. I'm kind of pissed about that.

These two nitwits suffer from inflated ego, its clear as day. If you read that back and forth with Brad per email... wow. Also, one can only admire Brad's patience in the whole thing. Up until the very last moment he keeps his composure and remains polite. I wonder how many holes he punched in the wall of his office though.

But, care factor = below zero, Star Control wasn't really ever thát good was it. I still hope and think Stardock will win this.

Vayra86Star Control wasn't really ever thát good

Some people love the series. It does have a dedicated following and audience.

After reading the whole thing, Paul and Fred will have a bogus legal journey here. Brad has far more weight on his end due to the IP ownership. If they prove they have that ownership with proof of purchase from Atari, then Fred/Paul will definitely not have a leg to stand on here.

And the fact that Brad was even willing to let most of it slip as well as cooperate with each other is astounding. Look at how Nintendo handles their IP? Look at how a lot of companies handle their IP? Try to even make association to something and they will have a team of lawyers waiting outside your house.

sepheronxBrad has far more weight on his end due to the IP ownership.

Except that there is a level of rights Paul and Fred seem to have with ownership to the original titles and potentially the whole franchise. Otherwise why would Stardock pull the games they control from sale? There's no court ordered injunction in effect, so it would seem that Stardock is worried that Paul & Fred may have a valid claim and want to be seen as acting in good faith to resolve the problem. Contract law in very complex and it is entirely possible Stardock thought it had rights it actually doesn't have. It is still possible to settle the matter without a court decision, but it's going to take both parties working to sort out the details and establish a more defined and clear understanding.

lexluthermiesterExcept that there is a level of rights Paul and Fred seem to have with ownership to the original titles and potentially the whole franchise.

No, they do not. The only thing they have is royalty payments in regards to the original SC1/2 design, that's it.

lexluthermiesterOtherwise why would Stardock pull the games they control from sale?

As a sign of good faith to Ford and Reiche.

lexluthermiesterContract law in very complex and it is entirely possible Stardock thought it had rights it actually doesn't have.

Stardock has no contract with Ford and Reiche other than royalty payment obligation. Accolade owned the games which transferred to Infrogrames, which transferred to Atari, which transferred to Stardock. Ford and Reiche have no paper trail saying they own anything other than the IP for SC1/2. Stardock has paperwork saying they own everything excluding that.

lexluthermiesterIt is still possible to settle the matter without a court decision, but it's going to take both parties working to sort out the details and establish a more defined and clear understanding.

An ice cube's chance in hell. Ford and Reiche are basically trying to slander, smear, and extort Stardock. As long as Stardock doesn't cave to their frivolous demands, there won't be a settlement because Ford and Reiche won't stop unless they get full control Star Control.

If you can handle lots and lots of legal talk, Leonard French over on YT has some great videos (including some from well into last year) about this topic. He put up a new one the other day, strongly suggest everyone watch it. If you are pro-Stardock you might not like the results of the recent filing.