rtwjunkieI like W10. I have it on most of my pc’s. But your experience is anecdotal. Equally anecdotal are the many people who have problems even upgrading to the new feature update every six months, including me once or twice. This then necessitates a fresh install every 6 months, which is ridiculous. 6 months is too frequent.

For this reason, I advocate to everyone I help to get W10, but get Pro at least, so they can control this way too frequent new OS install every 6 months. This can limit it to once per year, which is much more reasonable.

Exception being the widespread bugs a la OP. Which has gotten so frequent in recent years that it should make people question, not just MS' QA, but all the other programmes MS has implemented -and drawn criticism for- with Win10 (Insider programme, Telemetry).

Whoever came up with the idea that Windows should drastically change every 6 months (heck, or even 12! Desktops/Laptops aren't gimmiky smartphones) has done Windows and the market the greatest disservice they ever had.

ShihabyoooWhoever came up with the idea that Windows should drastically change every 6 months (heck, or even 12! Desktops/Laptops aren't gimmiky smartphones) has done Windows and the market the greatest disservice they ever had.

Blame the millennials that think they just have to have the latest and greatest features and whiz-bang stuff. They want new stuff and they want it now.

Since I'm playing a lot of Destiny 2 lately, I wanted to give it a try, see what happens. For science.
First of all, the update is still available (at the time of this writing 16:40 UTC 10. Mar)
Second, I tested the same zone in Destiny 2 with and without the update. Dreaming City, spawning point.
Without it the frame rate is capped at my monitor refresh rate (60 FPS). No dips. The laptop is capable to push more uncapped but the experience is much quieter with it.
With the update the frame rate goes all over the place, and dips to 35 FPS in the same place with some next level frame drops. I'm talking early days of CF/SLI frame drops.
Uninstalled the update, frame rate went back to normal.

OneMoaryour issues have nothing todo with microsoft you have a hardware problem bud

Yea, someone said it to me too.

Then I upgraded to Long Term Service Branch of Windows 10 and zero issues since then. Sure, it loses stuff from normal Win 10, but gains every day reliability. Kinda prefer it instead of having some fuckups due Win 10 update every second or third update.

They could rename it Win 10 LTSB FTW.

Manu_PTAny news? Windows7 has almost half latency than windows10. Mouse behaviour is superior on win7 translation wise (closest to 1:1) anyone serious about online gaming dont use w10. Worst OS ever for gamets.

*cough* Linux or MacOS *cough*

OneMoarits your job as a MSP to make them understand, if you don't believe in the product you are recommending then neither will the client


there is absolutely no reason to use windows 7 over 10, 10 is in every mensurable way a superior os, it runs faster on the same hardware, its more secure its a easier os to configure,its all around a lighter os it offers more functionality

anybody that claims otherwise does not know what they are doing PERIOD

the people that drag there feet and wait until the last possible second to upgrade are the scourge of IT support every-ware it causes problems with both aging hardware compatibility software compatibility when that one piece of badly written software does not way to play nice and we end up pulling a all day shift trying to make it work , (and let me make this next part very clear) because some vendor still codes everything like its 2001 (and yes this happens ALL OF THE TIME from major corporations E.G general motors software,progressive insurance to name a couple )

and its always a massive pain in the ass and always the client has waited till the last second to make the change over and demands everything work right now)

and then when enviably when something doesn't work in the exact same manner as they are used to the phone rings

upgrade early upgrade often in the long run both you and the client will do better

I tell my clients the truth, nothing more nothing less, I believed in the product at the start but ever since then it has had nothing but issues more and more to the point its just got ridiculous and until it is fully stable and working with out all the current issues I dont recommend it unless there is no choice which is more and more the case these days sadly.

There are many reasons not to go to 10 over 7 and the proof is in the pudding, It doesnt lose or stop working your Wifi or printer settings/drivers after each major update and you dont run the risk of losing all your Document files like the last major one did. Thats just a few off the top of my head.

incorrect! Windows 10 does NOT run faster over 7 on the same hardware this is completely false! and in no way lighter in anyway shape or form, its worse then Vista on how heavy and slow it is. I know for a fact it is an extremely slow OS from using it many times on different hardware and its horrific! especially on a mechanical HDD and also slower on a SSD which I will show you a quick msg from a client of mine that reverted back to 7 because of W10 issues.



This was on a machine running an i5 CPU and a SSD and you can see for yourself that even from a clients view she can tell how much faster 7 is on the exact same hardware.

Well sadly your claims are very false and wrong and its clear you dont know what your talking about PERIOD!

Thats not the clients fault now is it? if there is badly written software then its up to the developers to fix it or make said software good from the start which I see time and time again the hardware we have today and honestly for the past decade has been great! but the software has been shocking and way behind! Why should people be forced to upgrade to something that isnt as good? when there hardware is perfectly fine? in what world does that make any kind of sense? yes it can be a pain in the butt to transition files or programs from an old OS to a newer one but that has only become an issue more so since 10 because of the lack of support it has with older software which you dont have with 7.

Your living in a world that isnt reality, people dont have the $$$$$ to continually upgrade there system all the time its just not how it works in the real world. People use there PC's till its ether to slow to do what they want it to do or said modern software only works on said OS (like office 2019)

Im all for Windows 10 but it has proven time and time again to be to buggy and slow and terrible damaging updates which clients DO NOT like to hear and only turns them off. Once 10 is finally working correctly I will happy recommend it but at this stage I cant do that and would be telling a lie!

(Windows 10 install at your own risk) lol

ShihabyoooNo, they won't, and honestly, the shouldn't.
They won't because it goes against their entire MO thus far; support has already been dropped for 7 on many fronts (hardware support is a major example), and allocating resources to maintain an OS that doesn't generate income would make no sense once the legal obligation expires. And let's not forget that people were throwing tantrums over XP as well, didn't stop MS from ditching it (nor did many users, for a while).

They shouldn't, because, well, 7 is old, and it's missing too much stuff that can't be simply plugged in. I'm all for legacy support 'n all, but 7's planned obsolescence has been known for a decade now, and as long as my win32 software continue to run, I'm ok on that front.

Imo, Windows 10 isn't a bad platform in its entirety. Microsoft stubbornness and disregard for consumers' choice and privacy in matters regarding telemetry and data collection, updates and software pushes, etc, are well noted, and I personally would rather see them fix those in 10 rather than maintain 7.

I bet they will and to be honest they already have for people that run Pro or for the corporate environment, support has been continued past 2020 but for a fee from what I have read so far but lets face it they continued support for XP for another 2yrs with exactly what you have said just now but it had a user base WAY less then Windows 7 does, so i bet it will get a few more years or your going to have Millions of very upset users world wide.

No not really, yes its not supported as much on newer hardware as it once was but you can still find that it still is supported more then you think, for one all you have to do is look at my system specs to find that out ;) and that is fully supported on Windows 7, heck the latest client PC I just built had support for Windows 7 on a B450 Motherboard. So no it hasnt been dropped but is alot less.

I havent had any issues with plugging in anything to my or any other clients PC's that have not worked, heck I was able to get Windows 7 installed on a Acer Predator PC from Harvey Norman that had NO support for Windows 7 at all on the webpage or motherboard listing but I got it fully installed with all drivers working on a M.2 SSD (Client is so happy he is back on 7 btw)

Everything else I agree with, I was really gunning for Windows 10 to start off with, its not the best lay out honestly but I dont mind it as I use it every day on my laptop but its just those silly stupid issues it has that keep coming up that have really made me hate the damn OS, all I do is fix W10 issues or more so Wifi problems, Printer/scanner issues, OS F ing up after a update etc etc, like come on! One business had to replace the massive printer for a new one because the drivers/W 10 would keep F ing up all the time, wasnt cheap! to replace the monster of a printer but would work perfectly fine on the Windows 7 machine, its a cost they shouldnt of had to do but alas they did and it was there choice because in the real world people just dont listen....sigh.

This was not a Patch Tuesday update, normally it would get automatically installed only when someone actively checks for updates (yeah, MS didnt plan this one out, but I digress). So I dont think this update reached many users (yes, I know that "few" is still a lot since W10 runs on 800 million machines by now).
P.S.
One thing for sure, while system feature upgrade happens twice a year, I will not agree that it changes things drastically. I would argue there are too few noticable changes to even mark the jump from, say 1803 to 1809. Few more icons changed, more stuff moved to the UWP Settings app, but the rest is mostly under the hood.
P.P.S.
And people here running Enterprise or LTSB - yeah, what was that about piracy? xD You cannot even get those versions for home use legally.

IMO, any update that introduces and/or changes too many things at once (with the side effect of increasing probability of breaking stuff) is drastic. Changes don't necessarily have to be visible to have reaching effects, but c'mon! Compared to the service packs of old, 10's biannually "major" updates are packing with "new features" (read: gimmicks).

trparkyBlame the millennials that think they just have to have the latest and greatest features and whiz-bang stuff. They want new stuff and they want it now.

Now hold on just a minute, that can't be our fault too! We can't be single handedly ruining the economy AND technology! :p

MelvisI bet they will and to be honest they already have for people that run Pro or for the corporate environment, support has been continued past 2020 but for a fee from what I have read so far but lets face it they continued support for XP for another 2yrs with exactly what you have said just now but it had a user base WAY less then Windows 7 does, so i bet it will get a few more years or your going to have Millions of very upset users world wide.

Just to clarify, the legally-obligated support I mentioned is the free one detailed in the Windows lifecycle factsheet, which is basically all home -and probably most pro- usercases. Not everyone has or can get an enterprise license ora volume licensed Pro. The paid support scheme was also a known fact, iirc.
In all faireness, save for locking out updates from machines using new chips, MS isn't doing much different with 7 than previous versions.

Side note: Does anyone know if the quoted prices for per-computer, extended-extended support have minimum requirements?

I want to install Win 7 on 1 of my 7 computers....It relaxes me; I miss Aero, the Win 7 default background, the speed and simplicity...oh yea the most important

I CAN TURN OFF AUTOMATIC UPDATES
THAT KEEP MESSING UP SOMETHING!!!!

juisemanI CAN TURN OFF AUTOMATIC UPDATES THAT KEEP MESSING UP SOMETHING!!!!

You do know you can do that in Windows 10 too if you find it to hard to do manually then I suggest you download O&O Shut Up 10 and run it scroll down to where it says disable windows update and check all the boxes exit the program and reboot and Ta Da updates be gone

AthloniteYou do know you can do that in Windows 10 too if you find it to hard to do manually then I suggest you download O&O Shut Up 10 and run it scroll down to where it says disable windows update and check all the boxes exit the program and reboot and Ta Da updates be gone

And after that, use Windows Update minitool to download what you want. You can even hide updates with it. The only thing it can’t do is hide the feature Updates. There are other ways to do that.

rtwjunkieYou’ve got Enterprise, I’ve got Pro, but consider this: most users have plain Jane home version, which literally gives zero control over updates. I notice this between my rig on Pro, where I delay feature updates nearly 9 months and regular updates 10 days. My HTPC uses W10 Home, and literally updates when it wants.

You have to get a bit creative but it is still possible to stop WU ... be careful where you search as many instructions are no longer functional as MS removed the functionality ... this one makes me laugh, interesting definition of "1 click" ...
While I would say for most, it's better to let the tool do it's thing,they should leave pro version users alone .... our network encompasses 286 PC-Years (No. of PCs in use x years in usage) and has yet to experience an infection or downtime other than a) failed hardware, b) problems caused by updates breaking things.

www.windowslatest.com/2019/01/05/microsoft-will-finally-allow-windows-10-home-users-to-pause-updates/

"Lack of control" is probably the biggest reason Win10 has had such a slow uptake rate having finally surpassed Win7 in market share in November of 2018 (3.7 years after release) which is kinda amazing since it was free.

rtwjunkieAnd after that, use Windows Update minitool to download what you want. You can even hide updates with it. The only thing it can’t do is hide the feature Updates. There are other ways to do that.

Interesting that you need two third party programs to control Windows Update... and even then, not completely. And while MS isn't busy crippling your computer in one way or another, they're building a profile about which cat pictures you like best.

hatInteresting that you need two third party programs to control Windows Update... and even then, not completely. And while MS isn't busy crippling your computer in one way or another, they're building a profile about which cat pictures you like best.

LOL, hate cats. The alternative is to just get Pro and completely control the update cycle.

Or use shutup10 or similar. :)

rtwjunkieLOL, hate cats. The alternative is to just get Pro and completely control the update cycle.

Completely? I mean, I'd recommend this approach to anyone (at least you can defer problematic updates like the infamous 1809 for a while) but I still don't call this complete control.

hatCompletely? I mean, I'd recommend this approach to anyone (at least you can defer problematic updates like the infamous 1809 for a while) but I still don't call this complete control.

Yeah, you’re right. You can get a year out of it. This then leaves you the choice of 2 feature updates you install (whichever is the most stable).

Some of my friends having mouse degradation problems in Rainbow 6 Siege and World of Warcraft, too.

resident evil 2 is now lagging after update

MelvisI tell my clients the truth, nothing more nothing less, I believed in the product at the start but ever since then it has had nothing but issues more and more to the point its just got ridiculous and until it is fully stable and working with out all the current issues I dont recommend it unless there is no choice which is more and more the case these days sadly.

There are many reasons not to go to 10 over 7 and the proof is in the pudding, It doesnt lose or stop working your Wifi or printer settings/drivers after each major update and you dont run the risk of losing all your Document files like the last major one did. Thats just a few off the top of my head.

incorrect! Windows 10 does NOT run faster over 7 on the same hardware this is completely false! and in no way lighter in anyway shape or form, its worse then Vista on how heavy and slow it is. I know for a fact it is an extremely slow OS from using it many times on different hardware and its horrific! especially on a mechanical HDD and also slower on a SSD which I will show you a quick msg from a client of mine that reverted back to 7 because of W10 issues.



This was on a machine running an i5 CPU and a SSD and you can see for yourself that even from a clients view she can tell how much faster 7 is on the exact same hardware.

Well sadly your claims are very false and wrong and its clear you dont know what your talking about PERIOD!

Thats not the clients fault now is it? if there is badly written software then its up to the developers to fix it or make said software good from the start which I see time and time again the hardware we have today and honestly for the past decade has been great! but the software has been shocking and way behind! Why should people be forced to upgrade to something that isnt as good? when there hardware is perfectly fine? in what world does that make any kind of sense? yes it can be a pain in the butt to transition files or programs from an old OS to a newer one but that has only become an issue more so since 10 because of the lack of support it has with older software which you dont have with 7.

Your living in a world that isnt reality, people dont have the $$$$$ to continually upgrade there system all the time its just not how it works in the real world. People use there PC's till its ether to slow to do what they want it to do or said modern software only works on said OS (like office 2019)

Im all for Windows 10 but it has proven time and time again to be to buggy and slow and terrible damaging updates which clients DO NOT like to hear and only turns them off. Once 10 is finally working correctly I will happy recommend it but at this stage I cant do that and would be telling a lie!

(Windows 10 install at your own risk) lol




I bet they will and to be honest they already have for people that run Pro or for the corporate environment, support has been continued past 2020 but for a fee from what I have read so far but lets face it they continued support for XP for another 2yrs with exactly what you have said just now but it had a user base WAY less then Windows 7 does, so i bet it will get a few more years or your going to have Millions of very upset users world wide.

No not really, yes its not supported as much on newer hardware as it once was but you can still find that it still is supported more then you think, for one all you have to do is look at my system specs to find that out ;) and that is fully supported on Windows 7, heck the latest client PC I just built had support for Windows 7 on a B450 Motherboard. So no it hasnt been dropped but is alot less.

I havent had any issues with plugging in anything to my or any other clients PC's that have not worked, heck I was able to get Windows 7 installed on a Acer Predator PC from Harvey Norman that had NO support for Windows 7 at all on the webpage or motherboard listing but I got it fully installed with all drivers working on a M.2 SSD (Client is so happy he is back on 7 btw)

Everything else I agree with, I was really gunning for Windows 10 to start off with, its not the best lay out honestly but I dont mind it as I use it every day on my laptop but its just those silly stupid issues it has that keep coming up that have really made me hate the damn OS, all I do is fix W10 issues or more so Wifi problems, Printer/scanner issues, OS F ing up after a update etc etc, like come on! One business had to replace the massive printer for a new one because the drivers/W 10 would keep F ing up all the time, wasnt cheap! to replace the monster of a printer but would work perfectly fine on the Windows 7 machine, its a cost they shouldnt of had to do but alas they did and it was there choice because in the real world people just dont listen....sigh.

literally everything you have said is wrong I won't brother rebuking it people like you are why I stay in business more power to you with your old outdated broken os that I need to spend hours on fixing

we are 85/h per tech good luck

OneMoarliterally everything you have said is wrong I won't brother rebuking it people like you are why I stay in business more power to you with your old outdated broken os that I need to spend hours on fixing

we are 85/h per tech good luck

I honestly am curious about this as I have noticed a growing lack of professionalism in professional communications. Do you actually use punctuation or grammar in communications with your clients? I know this is a forum but bad habits are bad habits.

I have noticed it with my fortune 500 client all the way down to my mom and pop clients.

moproblems99I honestly am curious about this as I have noticed a growing lack of professionalism in professional communications. Do you actually use punctuation or grammar in communications with your clients? I know this is a forum but bad habits are bad habits.

I have noticed it with my fortune 500 client all the way down to my mom and pop clients.

ad`hominem will get you nowhere also it is 'clients', not 'client'.

And not using punctuation to make something readable takes a respectable post and cheapens it quite a bit. There is something said to be said for at least trying to use punctuation. Nobody is perfect (looks at imperfect self in mirror), but... it looks like the period button is broken on your keyboard. :p

EarthDogAnd not using punctuation to make something readable takes a respectable post and cheapens it quite a bit. There is something said to be said for at least trying to use punctuation. Nobody is perfect (looks at imperfect self in mirror), but... it looks like the period button is broken on your keyboard. :p

punctuation is for suckers real men communicate in a series of grunts and other bodily noises

I bet your knuckles are calloused from dragging those suckers on the ground. :D

Hopefully standing upright is in your future, lol!