I don't agree with the dictator part, but yeah nearly everyone from the top 1% is corrupt especially politicians!

US understands there can be no military solution to Venezuela issue, says Lavrov

More:
tass.com/world/1057193


Chinese have 1,4 billion people + ASEAN countries + india rent russian submarines and buy s 400 for 10 B usd.. that was clear signal from india for you-usa))
SOO they have about 46% human population and usa under brutal military junta +gigantic debt think they can do "something" LOL ...
www.powermag.com/russia-sets-new-domestic-nuclear-generation-record/
www.straitstimes.com/world/russia-signs-nuclear-deal-with-argentina-competing-with-china
www.powermag.com/iran-expands-plans-for-nuclear-power/

i give you portion of reality , beouse when you stand up from "battlestation" computer.. and stop read usa news and tv , there is better world))
ps: i buy now xiaomi electronics for 400 usd )))) in Eu

It's funny to see some people saying :
"Trump is right"
"Trump is wrong"
"America is stronger than China"
"China is stronger than America"
Mixed up altogether and you get most of the comments from both perspective.

See, us, Europeans, have a total different point of view, because at only 1000km from your city, there's ex-USSR countries, as cheap as China (nearly).
USA and China economic war is actually quite fascinating since they depends en each other.

China cannot live without USA consumption, way above any country in Europe (in Europe for your 18 birthday, you have a phone maybe, not a car), and everybody (nearly) lives in close range of cities with what you call "small cars" (60 to 90 horse-power mainly, or smaller), in flats (70m² for a family of 3 and 100-120m² for a family of 4 or 5). A small house cost 500 times the minimum wage + taxes because own something ; only rich people can afford it.
USA on the other hand don't have the balls of steel you think. Most of US debt is owned by other countries, that's huge : www.thebalance.com/who-owns-the-u-s-national-debt-3306124
And as stated before, Americans don't even have a clue of how much they over-consume. It's just silly for the rest of the world.


What Trump is doing ? Playing with the string of this war, not having a clue of what it does. All he cares about is to divide people and hear their shouting while pulling strings. That's fun for him.
He will never be impeached because the vice-president is far worse than him, so he do what he wants when he wants. Like in reality show. Except that's not a show and we are the one "Fired" at.

Now please, stop posting a shit ton of posts over any decision he will make for the remaining 2 years. It's pointless.
And it's absurd to try to do the math over this economic war : it's like trying to find whether Schrödinger cat is dead or alive. You will only know it when it's over. And we have a thing called "climate change" in the balance, that can kill us all before this war ends.

Prima.VeraIn Europe the taxes are way over 50%, so US guys...chill out. ;)

Tarriffs are different than general taxes, so while you'd usually have a point, NOT the best place to do a comparison.

klfUS understands there can be no military solution to Venezuela issue, says Lavrov

China played a significant role in destabilizing Venezuela: How a Chinese venture in Venezuela made millions while locals grew hungry

64KUSA on the other hand don't have the balls of steel you think. Most of US debt is owned by other countries, that's huge : www.thebalance.com/who-owns-the-u-s-national-debt-3306124

Because the expectation is that it will be paid. In other words, it's easy money for them.


I'm not really overly concerned about the tariffs because companies are moving production out of China. All is well...except for China.

R-T-BOn the other hand, China doesn't seem worried, either. These tariffs are a sign negotiations are NOT going well and Trump thinks he needs more pressure, or something. That means China isn't terribly worried yet, IMO.

I'll be the first to admit the impact of the tarriffs has been little on the consumer, though. I just hope it stays that way.

Publicly, they're putting on a poker face, privately, the wheels are falling off the bus. Trump calling their bluff by applying the tariffs proving to China their position is weak and getting weaker. The tariffs are also channeling money from China to Taiwan so it can better position itself against the PRC.

Congress can always refund tariff money back to the people or to industries affected by China's counter tariffs (especially agriculture).

FordGT90ConceptPublicly, they're putting on a poker face, privately, the wheels are falling off the bus. Trump calling their bluff by applying the tariffs proving to China their position is weak and getting weaker. The tariffs are also channeling more money from China to Taiwan so it can better position itself against the PRC.

Honestly, I hope your right. I'm no one to root for China just so I can laugh at Trump. But you surely understand I want to see a little more talk from China before I believe, yes?

I really think the only ones right now who know China's private situation... are in China.

I think China's long-game strategy is to push the can past 2020 hoping Trump wouldn't get a second term. Trump saw that and increased pressure to get a deal before then. China has a tough decision now: reach a deal and move on or risk their economy contracting on the hope that all of the tariffs will someday vanish without a deal. Since tariffs are going both ways, I think the latter is unrealistic. No POTUS is going to take away the tariffs USA has on China without getting an agreement from China that they will do the same. In that scenario: USA still loses because China can continue to subsidize shipping for its industries which means no private entity can compete. There needs to be a deal: USA has the most to gain and China has the most to lose.

FordGT90ConceptPublicly, they're putting on a poker face, privately, the wheels are falling off the bus. Trump calling their bluff by applying the tariffs proving to China their position is weak and getting weaker. The tariffs are also channeling money from China to Taiwan so it can better position itself against the PRC.

Congress can always refund tariff money back to the people or to industries affected by China's counter tariffs (especially agriculture).

While China's position is weak you're kind of overestimating the leverage US has over China, especially in the long term. The OBOR which I mentioned briefly when complete ~ it'll give them better access to a market 5x to 6x bigger than US+EU combined, purely in terms of numbers & including the next most populous nation on earth. Also when you say production is shifting out of China, a lot of that are Chinese manufacturers themselves moving abroad to avoid tariffs & to reduce their own burgeoning costs.

A similar tactic employed by China for years ~ they use their dollar (forex) reserves for Sovereign wealth fund, foreign investments, loans as well as indirectly/directly subsidizing their local industry, especially exporters. If you think the US can take on China by itself & win then you're wrong, you'll need the EU & a lot of the developing world for China's course correction. With Trump at the helm, that's not happening anytime soon. Some of his policies are right but his demeanor & body language is more often than not inappropriate for a global leader of his stature.

Belt and Road Initiative is crony capitalism just like the Venezuela link I shared. They are settling Chinese in the countries that agree to it while simultaneously saddling the countries with debt they can't reasonably pay off. China is destroying countries from within through these kinds of economic seizures and sowing ethnic seeds.

www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2017/10/china-belt-and-road/542667/
Most of its funding will come in the form of loans, not grants, and Chinese state-owned enterprises will also be encouraged to invest. This means, for example, that if Pakistan can’t pay back its loans, China could own many of its coal mines, oil pipelines, and power plants, and thus have enormous leverage over the Pakistani government. In the meantime, China has the rights to operate the Gwadar port for 40 years.

On top of that, China has overleveraged itself, and everyone that does business with China knows how China cheats (subsidies); ergo, Trump has started a trend that will likely propagate to counter China's subsidies.

EU is more or less in agreement with USA's stance against China. Developing world is getting burned by the Belt and Road Initiative so they are already quite aware of the game China is playing. On top of all these things, there's growing unrest in China. China is being crushed from within (becoming an authoritarian, secretive police state) and without (they literally put tariffs on food--a necessity--because that's all they got).

You're just citing one extreme example, in which btw that Chinese company made over a billion $ doing nothing? What China is doing is building a well oiled machine to gather resources efficiently & at the same time access these growing markets cheaply. They're also making huge sums by constructing the majority of infrastructure & providing jobs for their own citizens in OBOR projects. Setting up Chinese owned factories & industrial parks in mineral rich areas, designating the local govt to take care of law & order. These stupid nations themselves might be blind but China is not, they've involved the ADB & now IMF (Pak bailout) so that they aren't the only ones with high stakes in OBOR, even if the involvement of the two is at an arms length. Take case of SL, which ceded an entire port to the Chinese for 99 year lease. They're also developing hundreds of acres in their Capital city. China is making truck loads of money, they're just not showing it to the outside world.

This is modern colonialism at its finest. You also said something about corruption? Just because nations are corrupt they don't stop growing, India is among the top 10 economies in the world - top 3 if you count GDP on PPP basis - consistently in the top 10 fastest growing major economy of the last decade. Yet corruption here is probably worse than ever. Economies don't stop or come to a screeching halt because of corruption, you just have to put a lot more $ to get relatively less returns.

FordGT90ConceptOn top of all these things, there's growing unrest in China. China is being crushed from within (becoming an authoritarian, secretive police state) and without (they literally put tariffs on food--a necessity--because that's all they got).

I don't see any of that, which even registers on the Richter scale. China can't be beaten just by force you need an ideology to beat them. An ideology that opposes a totalitarian regime - which wants to sees itself ruling the no.1 nation on earth, wants total control over its citizens, too much control over the world, its economy & the narrative - that they're (not) bad.

In many ways this is the fight we're fighting inside our nations - the increasingly rich (China) fight the increasingly poor (slowly most of the world) & you know who's winning that war. If you want a change, you'll have to return most of the power to the people - where it belongs. Tax the uber rich, don't give tax breaks to mega corps, indict & convict the corrupt, grafters, criminals even if they sit in a position of power. China knows how to deal with the Mullahs, the dictators, US, EU & Japan. They've been at it for a better part of half a century, you can't beat them by alienating your decades old allies.

R0H1TYou're just citing one extreme example, in which btw that Chinese company made over a billion $ doing nothing? What China is doing is building a well oiled machine to gather resources efficiently & at the same time access these growing markets cheaply. They're also making huge sums by constructing the majority of infrastructure & providing jobs for their own citizens in OBOR projects. Setting up Chinese owned factories & industrial parks in mineral rich areas, designating the local govt to take care of law & order. These stupid nations themselves might be blind but China is not, they've involved the ADB & now IMF (Pak bailout) so that they aren't the only ones with high stakes in OBOR, even if the involvement of the two is at an arms length. Take case of SL, which ceded an entire port to the Chinese for 99 year lease. They're also developing hundreds of acres in their Capital city. China is making truck loads of money, they're just not showing it to the outside world.

This is modern colonialism at its finest. You also said something about corruption? Just because nations are corrupt they don't stop growing, India is among the top 10 economies in the world - top 3 if you count GDP on PPP basis - consistently in the top 10 fastest growing major economy of the last decade. Yet corruption here is probably worse than ever. Economies don't stop or come to a screeching halt because of corruption, you just have to put a lot more $ to get relatively less returns.
I don't see any of that, which even registers on the Richter scale. China can't be beaten just by force you need an ideology to beat them. An ideology that opposes a totalitarian regime - which wants to sees itself ruling the no.1 nation on earth, wants total control over its citizens, too much control over the world, its economy & the narrative - that they're (not) bad.

In many ways this is the fight we're fighting inside our nations - the increasingly rich (China) fight the increasingly poor (slowly most of the world) & you know who's winning that war. If you want a change, you'll have to return most of the power to the people - where it belongs. Tax the uber rich, don't give tax breaks to mega corps, indict & convict the corrupt, grafters, criminals even if they sit in a position of power. China knows how to deal with the Mullahs, the dictators, US, EU & Japan. They've been at it for a better part of half a century, you can't beat them by alienating your decades old allies.

Typical he posts proof and facts and you just tell us how you feel.

Facts do not care about your feelings.

What proof do you want - Pak's IMF bailout , Hambantota port, ADB, Uighur "reeducation" camps, social "credit" system? How about you look it up, I live here & I certainly know more than your third hand knowledge about this part of the world. And where did my feelings come into this, does Trump leading a "new" America reset the global order once again? You know the answer to that & likely why he's derided the world over.

I see that warnings don't matter to some people, last time I'm sanitizing this thread and the next culprit gets points:wtf:

R0H1TPak's IMF bailout

Take from IMF to give to China. Fantastic deal for China and Pakistan manages to keep its sovereignty...for now. IMF will not likely offer another bailout in the future because of pressure from the USA. They're lucky they got any at all.

R0H1THambantota port

The point of the ports is to get more access globally to Chinese goods. Effectively, China wants to do to every country that accepts one of their ports like it did to USA: replace domestic manufacturing with Chinese imports. This is why I said before that USA is the first country to challenge China with tariffs and it won't be the last. The only way to stop Chinese colonialism is to tariff it to death.

Water is still the cheapest way to ship goods and China is the largest manufacturer of shipping containers in the world.

R0H1TADB

Not sure what your point is here. The Asian Development Bank is principally funded by Japan and USA. China is the biggest borrower against it.

R0H1TUighur "reeducation" camps

I already mentioned this in brief in my last post. I'm not sure why you're mentioning it here but religious persecution (let's call it what it is) never works. They're not the ones that are going to overthrow the Communist regime though--the dissatisfied masses will (sources in last post).

R0H1Tsocial "credit" system?

Another tool to control the population. It's another sign of totalitarianism replacing communism.


Back on topic, it's not clear that Trump is doing the tariffs or merely threatening to tariff. China has sent their top negotiator to the USA to attempt to head off the tariffs.

I see many of you still don't get it. Who made the most $ when jobs moved overseas - the Chinese? Nope it was wealthy individuals & corporations that made the bank, still do. Who benefits the most when these goods now are produced in Asean, India or African nations? Some Chinese firms, but still the vast majority of the profits are pilfered by super wealthy individuals & trillion dollar companies. We're fighting a 2 front war (3 if you count religion) wherein the wealthy are only getting wealthier, still not paying taxes & now the trillion dollar companies are also getting tax breaks. What's your solution to that - tax China? Nope - give more money to the middle class, encourage local industries, discourage tax evasion, punish criminals who facilitate economic crimes & ban lobbying. Change the name of the country & it still applies. China can get away with it because they're exploiting the most corrupt & greedy elites(1%) running their respective nations. You can't expect to overcome someone, acting in bad faith, when some of your institutions themselves are flawed & you're running a campaign from a compromised position.

Taking care of China is important, taking care of income inequality & the super rich ~ I'd argue is even more urgent. The wealthiest 1% around the globe don't belong to one nation ~ they're globalists & just care for themselves including most politicians.

Oh look, a political thread on a tech site, how long is this crapfest going to be allowed to continue before a mod does the right thing and shuts it down?

It's a news thread...heavily moderated rather than locked.

Politics sometimes influences technology.

Caring1Oh look, a political thread on a tech site, how long is this crapfest going to be allowed to continue before a mod does the right thing and shuts it down?

As long as its civil I don't see a problem, many though have never been told no, or don't seem able to have a conversation where other points are debated and it shows. Disagreeing isn't violence, its how we form better ideas.

Trump says he would be happy to keep tariffs on Chinese imports

These tariffs could become semi-permanent like the "Chicken Tax" if a trade deal isn't reached.


Exclusive: China backtracked on almost all aspects of U.S. trade deal - sources

ReutersThe diplomatic cable from Beijing arrived in Washington late on Friday night, with systematic edits to a nearly 150-page draft trade agreement that would blow up months of negotiations between the world’s two largest economies, according to three U.S. government sources and three private sector sources briefed on the talks.

ReutersIn each of the seven chapters of the draft trade deal, China had deleted its commitments to change laws to resolve core complaints that caused the United States to launch a trade war: Theft of U.S. intellectual property and trade secrets; forced technology transfers; competition policy; access to financial services; and currency manipulation.