candle_86When i bought new XPS 13 laptops my concern was how much ram will I need today and in 2 years, and will a 2 core with hyper threading be enough or should i get the i7 with 4 cores and 8 threads.

How big was the company you were working for?

medi01How big was the company you were working for?

2000 employee's in corprate, another 7000 across the country, the other one was a public university. Doesn't matter this is how it works. The compaines buy the equipment then get rid of it later when the warranty is up. The reason is the machine is no longer valuable after the warranty is up. Costs rise on the system and it's not worth the labor to keep repairing

candle_86The compaines buy the equipment then get rid of it later when the warranty is up.

Tell them to stop it. It is very anti-green. Just upgrade the CPU if you need to but never buy things which you don't need and put thus pressure on the environment for manufacturing it.

ARFTell them to stop it. It is very anti-green. Just upgrade the CPU if you need to but never buy things which you don't need and put thus pressure on the environment for manufacturing it.

Companies don't give a shit about the environment. You'd be lucky if the machines don't just get destroyed for "data security" reasons too - not worth the manpower to take hard drives out, god forbid securely wiping them, if you try and recoup money by reselling the machine you're obsoleting.

GlacierNineCompanies don't give a shit about the environment. You'd be lucky if the machines don't just get destroyed for "data security" reasons too - not worth the manpower to take hard drives out, god forbid securely wiping them, if you try and recoup money by reselling the machine you're obsoleting.

At least some companies say that they care about the environment.

Microsoft announces it will be carbon negative by 2030
news.microsoft.com/2020/01/16/microsoft-announces-it-will-be-carbon-negative-by-2030/

Rio Tinto makes billion dollar pledge to go carbon neutral
probonoaustralia.com.au/news/2020/03/rio-tinto-makes-billion-dollar-pledge-to-go-carbon-neutral/

Eastbourne Carbon Neutral 2030
www.lewes-eastbourne.gov.uk/eastbourne-borough-council-news/eastbourne-carbon-neutral-2030/

Global Experiences makes 2025 carbon neutral pledge
thepienews.com/news/global-experiences-make-2025-carbon-neutral-pledge/

And many more...

ARFTell them to stop it. It is very anti-green. Just upgrade the CPU if you need to but never buy things which you don't need and put thus pressure on the environment for manufacturing it.

yea no, the systems go to a recycler or sold to employee's, the hard drives are either securely erased if sold on or they are degaused and shredded. The systems are then broken down to the base material for recycling and those base parts are shipped overseas for processing.

It's a matter of cost vs uptime. A computer at 3 years old when the warranty is up is also obsolete for a business. Mechanical parts like fans have started to wear out, hard drives have slowed down from age, power supplies start to also fail. The cost to keep them working increases at 3 years its manageable, at 4 it gets worst, at 5 now your parting systems out just to keep 75% working and it goes down hill. There is also the fact that new parts become unavailable for the systems so now your also relying on used parts to grantee operation. These concerns are all manageable for a home user or even a small business, but a company with 10,000 computers the investment and uncertainty isn't worth the risk. It's smarter and cheaper long term to simply replace the systems when the warranty runs up.

candle_86yea no, the systems go to a recycler or sold to employee's, the hard drives are either securely erased if sold on or they are degaused and shredded. The systems are then broken down to the base material for recycling and those base parts are shipped overseas for processing.

It's a matter of cost vs uptime. A computer at 3 years old when the warranty is up is also obsolete for a business. Mechanical parts like fans have started to wear out, hard drives have slowed down from age, power supplies start to also fail. The cost to keep them working increases at 3 years its manageable, at 4 it gets worst, at 5 now your parting systems out just to keep 75% working and it goes down hill. There is also the fact that new parts become unavailable for the systems so now your also relying on used parts to grantee operation. These concerns are all manageable for a home user or even a small business, but a company with 10,000 computers the investment and uncertainty isn't worth the risk. It's smarter and cheaper long term to simply replace the systems when the warranty runs up.

Neither of the things you write are even partially correct. PC components are designed to work for decades.
CPUs can work for decades, PSUs come with 10, 12 year warranties, RAM is essentially with lifetime warranty.

:laugh:

Please think about the environment.

ARFNeither of the things you write are even partially correct. PC components are designed to work for decades.
CPUs can work for decades, PSUs come with 10, 12 year warranties, RAM is essentially with lifetime warranty.

:laugh:

Please think about the environment.

Hard drives and fans wear out that's a fact. Psus in a Dell are as long as the warranty you paid out of warranty expect to pay 100-200 dollars. It's not worth the effort. Now I'm done discussing this, this is how it is period the end.

Just dumped my Ryzen rig, which I used for modern gaming primarily (have two other WinXP based machines for really older titles, Althon XP + 7800GTX SLI rig for really old stuff, and a Phenom + GTX 580 SLI machine for Crysis era stuff). That said, going from a 6-core/12-thread Ryzen @ 4.05Ghz to a 6-core/6-thread 9600k @ 5.3GHz was amazing. Between 40% to 100% improvement in older titles (2010-2017) and around 20% to 30% in titles that came out last 12 months.

Don't trust all these YouTube reviewers, it's all "sponsorships" and straight out obfuscation(lies) at worst and at best its use of very specific benchmarks (or even subsets of veryyyy specific settings within benchmarks) to get "desired" results. I knew I was in trouble when my shiny new Ryzen was spitting out real world numbers, as in stuff outside of AIDA/Everest, that were very close to a 10 year old X58/i7-920 platform (one in the profile).

Anyway, TPU is one of the few remaining places to get unbiased reviews. FFS, Wiz still uses SuperPi to bench his CPUs, in fact its the very first test he uses in his reviews.

As for these new CPUs, Intel will stay gaming/ST king for a long while. I don't see AMD doing much to change that, not until AM5 at least. There is no way AMD can gap the 1GHz difference with IPC improvements, and the fact many titles and middleware engines are still using x87 here and there, something intel is still a master of. Never mind most apps are very single threaded, even in 2020.

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AddSubThere is no way AMD can gap the 1GHz difference with IPC improvements

Trolling much is never a good thing.

Ryzen can boost to 4.7 GHz as in Ryzen 9 3950X.
Core i9-9900KS can boost to 5.0 GHz.

So, now, please explain where you found the 1 GHz difference in ?

candle_862000 employee's in corprate, another 7000 across the country, the other one was a public university. Doesn't matter this is how it works. The compaines buy the equipment then get rid of it later when the warranty is up. The reason is the machine is no longer valuable after the warranty is up. Costs rise on the system and it's not worth the labor to keep repairing

That's not an enterprise.

ARFAt least some companies say that they care about the environment.

These companies would be doing absolutely nothing for the environment if it didn't help their bottom line. Some of them are outright lying about it - for example Apple claims that their Unibody macbook construction is environmentally friendly, which is ridiculous to anyone who has ever seen how much waste material they have to remove from that block of aluminium (With a milling machine no less, which takes huge amounts of energy to do) That waste material is then useless until they waste a huge amount of extra energy melting it down into the next batch of blocks, rinse-repeat. Hugely wasteful compared to just stamping a sheet into shape. Especially once you factor in that aluminium is often heat-treated, so it's not as simple as just melting and casting it again - the physical qualities of the material you're attempting to reclaim will have changed and the reclaimed material will need to be treated again.

They're doing this because:

1 - They see the writing on the wall for many of their most wasteful practices, and are getting ahead of the curve before it becomes legally mandated and they have to do it on a shorter timescale, which would be more expensive

2- While they're doing that, they might as well shout about doing it because at least then they can write some of the cost off as a marketing expense.

medi01That's not an enterprise.

And what do you consider an Enterprise?

AddSubJust dumped my Ryzen rig, which I used for modern gaming primarily (have two other WinXP based machines for really older titles, Althon XP + 7800GTX SLI rig for really old stuff, and a Phenom + GTX 580 SLI machine for Crysis era stuff). That said, going from a 6-core/12-thread Ryzen @ 4.05Ghz to a 6-core/6-thread 9600k @ 5.3GHz was amazing. Between 40% to 100% improvement in older titles (2010-2017) and around 20% to 30% in titles that came out last 12 months.

Don't trust all these YouTube reviewers, it's all "sponsorships" and straight out obfuscation(lies) at worst and at best its use of very specific benchmarks (or even subsets of veryyyy specific settings within benchmarks) to get "desired" results. I knew I was in trouble when my shiny new Ryzen was spitting out real world numbers, as in stuff outside of AIDA/Everest, that were very close to a 10 year old X58/i7-920 platform (one in the profile).

Anyway, TPU is one of the few remaining places to get unbiased reviews. FFS, Wiz still uses SuperPi to bench his CPUs, in fact its the very first test he uses in his reviews.

As for these new CPUs, Intel will stay gaming/ST king for a long while. I don't see AMD doing much to change that, not until AM5 at least. There is no way AMD can gap the 1GHz difference with IPC improvements, and the fact many titles and middleware engines are still using x87 here and there, something intel is still a master of. Never mind most apps are very single threaded, even in 2020.

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Couldn't agree more, in regard to gaming Intel is still MILES ahead, especially when comparing cpus at thread parity and just like you say (and I have several times before), Ryzens won't change that anytime soon...

AddSubJust dumped my Ryzen rig, which I used for modern gaming primarily (have two other WinXP based machines for really older titles, Althon XP + 7800GTX SLI rig for really old stuff, and a Phenom + GTX 580 SLI machine for Crysis era stuff). That said, going from a 6-core/12-thread Ryzen @ 4.05Ghz to a 6-core/6-thread 9600k @ 5.3GHz was amazing. Between 40% to 100% improvement in older titles (2010-2017) and around 20% to 30% in titles that came out last 12 months.

I call BS, I used a Ryzen 7 1700x before the kids took water to it, and in single threaded and older games it whooped my previous i7 3770 pretty badly, no one not even TPU agree's with your results and honestly the fact you think an Athlon XP which is for Socket A aka 462 and only has AGP chipsets can run a 7800GTX SLI setup is all the proof I need, you don't know what your talking about.

AddSubDon't trust all these YouTube reviewers, it's all "sponsorships" and straight out obfuscation(lies) at worst and at best its use of very specific benchmarks (or even subsets of veryyyy specific settings within benchmarks) to get "desired" results. I knew I was in trouble when my shiny new Ryzen was spitting out real world numbers, as in stuff outside of AIDA/Everest, that were very close to a 10 year old X58/i7-920 platform (one in the profile).

again my 1700x whooped a 3770 which does destroy any x58 single threaded workload, my only guess is you underclocked it, or your an intel shill, but either way what your saying can be proven false by the rest of the userbase and that's against first gen ryzen.

AddSubAnyway, TPU is one of the few remaining places to get unbiased reviews. FFS, Wiz still uses SuperPi to bench his CPUs, in fact its the very first test he uses in his reviews.

As for these new CPUs, Intel will stay gaming/ST king for a long while. I don't see AMD doing much to change that, not until AM5 at least. There is no way AMD can gap the 1GHz difference with IPC improvements, and the fact many titles and middleware engines are still using x87 here and there, something intel is still a master of. Never mind most apps are very single threaded, even in 2020.

Wizz clearly shows the lead for intel in games is 5-7% at best, no where near your 30%. Also what makes you think any software relys on pure x87 instructions these days? They are slower than SSE in every imagineable way, and intel hasn't been faster in x87 since 1999, that's when AMD came out with a better FPU than intel and that hasn't changed, even the FX had a stronger FPU than intels chips. Your again just spreading lies and misinformation. If everyone disagree's with you and gets diffrent results it does not mean they are testing wrong, it means you are screwing something up.

candle_86And what do you consider an Enterprise?

100k-ish and beyond.

medi01100k-ish and beyond.

Well Microsoft disagrees with you so does the industry.

candle_86Well Microsoft disagrees with you so does the industry.

I worked for 350-ish company, 5k-ish company, 80k+ ish company.
The 5k-ish one was much closer to 350 than to 80k+, processes wise.
In the latter, "single dude sits there and decides what crap to pick up" is not even remotely imaginable.

But let's argue about semantics, shall we.
I mean who calls what an enterprise should be very entertaining to talk about.

medi01I worked for 350-ish company, 5k-ish company, 80k+ ish company.
The 5k-ish one was much closer to 350 than to 80k+, processes wise.
In the latter, "single dude sits there and decides what crap to pick up" is not even remotely imaginable.

But let's argue about semantics, shall we.
I mean who calls what an enterprise should be very entertaining to talk about.

i look at it based on pricing, over 5000 machines your an enterprise, because at that point it's cheaper to buy an enterprise license than it is to buy a per seat license.

www.sangoma.com/articles/smb-sme-large-enterprise-size-business-matters/

No semantics but here you go

candle_86I call BS, I used a Ryzen 7 1700x before the kids took water to it, and in single threaded and older games it whooped my previous i7 3770 pretty badly, no one not even TPU agree's with your results and honestly the fact you think an Athlon XP which is for Socket A aka 462 and only has AGP chipsets can run a 7800GTX SLI setup is all the proof I need, you don't know what your talking about.



again my 1700x whooped a 3770 which does destroy any x58 single threaded workload, my only guess is you underclocked it, or your an intel shill, but either way what your saying can be proven false by the rest of the userbase and that's against first gen ryzen.



Wizz clearly shows the lead for intel in games is 5-7% at best, no where near your 30%. Also what makes you think any software relys on pure x87 instructions these days? They are slower than SSE in every imagineable way, and intel hasn't been faster in x87 since 1999, that's when AMD came out with a better FPU than intel and that hasn't changed, even the FX had a stronger FPU than intels chips. Your again just spreading lies and misinformation. If everyone disagree's with you and gets diffrent results it does not mean they are testing wrong, it means you are screwing something up.

A non-k 3770 on probably non-z board with possibly 1333 ram - there's your problem pal. Numerous tests show that properly OCed 2600k/3770k coupled with fast ram are more than a match for first gen Ryzens (at least in gaming)

HenrySomeoneA non-k 3770 on probably non-z board with possibly 1333 ram - there's your problem pal. Numerous tests show that properly OCed 2600k/3770k coupled with fast ram are more than a match for first gen Ryzens (at least in gaming)

So you're saying ~ go with an older, less efficient chip then OC it 20-25% more than top rated speeds for Zen 1xxx & get a more than decent cooler, with a compatible Z board (already EOL way back, because Intel duh) & claim victory?

medi01I worked for 350-ish company, 5k-ish company, 80k+ ish company.
The 5k-ish one was much closer to 350 than to 80k+, processes wise.
In the latter, "single dude sits there and decides what crap to pick up" is not even remotely imaginable.

But let's argue about semantics, shall we.
I mean who calls what an enterprise should be very entertaining to talk about.

You're arbitrarily deciding what an enterprise is based on weak, anecdotal evidence behind which nobody is standing except you.

On the other hand, Microsoft will allow users to buy Enterprise licenses if they have a minimum of 500 users. The European Union classes a business as a "Small or Medium Enterprise" if they have 101-500 employees, and as a Large Enterprise if they have over 1000 employees.

HenrySomeoneA non-k 3770 on probably non-z board with possibly 1333 ram - there's your problem pal. Numerous tests show that properly OCed 2600k/3770k coupled with fast ram are more than a match for first gen Ryzens (at least in gaming)

Nope non z on a z board using turbo oc to 4ghz with ddr3 1866 oced to 2000mhz but nice try. The ryzen was still faster in single threaded titles. I play older titles mostly, cnc3, coh 1, civilization iv. All where faster, and then games like cities skylines absolulty loved it. In cities I went from unplayable at 150k pop to playable at 500k pop, though cities can use up to 6 cores.

His point is 40-100% which isn't possible. 1st Gen ryzen has ipc at haswell level, now haswell to Skylake is 10-12% at best in ipc usually 5%. His 9th gen has the same ipc as Skylake but let's be generous and say it gained an extra 5%.

Now and 3rd gen clock for clock tie Intel ipc except in gaming because of latency to the I/o die. But that loss is shown to be under 5% with an rtx 2080ti in games here at tpu as an average. Now his i5 is at 5ghz so he gains 25% over a stock 3rd gen without turbo. At best his average is 30% but because of amds turbo it's going to be closer to 10% and that's if he using an rtx 2080ti and if performance scales lineraly which it doesn't.

Now you've also got another issue at 5ghz the 2600k is still considered slow and is best paired with a 1070 to or below these days, it's time has already ended, sandybridge was declared dead at the high-end way back in 2018. It's still a fine budget chip but it's missing things like aes and it's avx decoding is considered slow.

HenrySomeoneA non-k 3770 on probably non-z board with possibly 1333 ram - there's your problem pal. Numerous tests show that properly OCed 2600k/3770k coupled with fast ram are more than a match for first gen Ryzens (at least in gaming)

So wait, are you seriously telling me that older parts can perform close to new parts, and all you have to do is overclock the snot out of them?

I can't believe nobody figured this out before now!

GlacierNineSo wait, are you seriously telling me that older parts can perform close to new parts, and all you have to do is overclock the snot out of them?

I can't believe nobody figured this out before now!

See my reply with facts above yours, it should clear up why the 40-100% claim is bogus.