Thermaltake, the leading PC DIY premium brand for Cooling, Gaming Gear, and Enthusiast Memory solutions

... I think Corsair might have a thing or two to say about that.

I'll have to admit, the neon maker software is probably the best in terms of fine grain control, and having a time-line, like in a video editing program, is a genius way to handle animations. The Riing Quad fans are really cool too, I just cannot bring myself to pay $50 per fan... And when you need 9x for your chassis... Well.... Let's just say I think something is weird about paying more for 9x fans than for a new 8 core cpu for a build.

AnarchoPrimitivI'll have to admit, the neon maker software is probably the best in terms of fine grain control, and having a time-line, like in a video editing program, is a genius way to handle animations. The Riing Quad fans are really cool too, I just cannot bring myself to pay $50 per fan... And when you need 9x for your chassis... Well.... Let's just say I think something is weird about paying more for 9x fans than for a new 8 core cpu for a build.

You just think about it in terms of size, volume and mass (and completely ignore production complexity and R&D costs!) and it starts to make sense - a modern CPU core with cache is something like 10mm3 of silicon, copper and various other substances, while a 120mmx25mm fan - assuming 90& of the volume is air, which is likely a bit high - is something like 36 000 mm3 of plastic, copper, LEDs and so on. The fan motor alone is likely worth more in terms of materials than a CPU core ;)

All that being said, I'm happy we Noctua fans (no pun intended!) are suddenly looking like the sensible ones in terms of how much we pay for our fans. $20 apiece is suddenly quite cheap!

Valantar$20 apiece is suddenly quite cheap!

I know you're joking, but its really not :p 11-15, is about as far as I'll go, personally... and that is already taking it pretty far. And there are tons of Noctua equivalents for that money...

And yeah, a 40 bucks mark up for a pretty light & software... I don't know, some wiring is messed up if one thinks that is somehow a good deal.

ValantarYou just think about it in terms of size, volume and mass (and completely ignore production complexity and R&D costs!) and it starts to make sense - a modern CPU core with cache is something like 10mm3 of silicon, copper and various other substances, while a 120mmx25mm fan - assuming 90& of the volume is air, which is likely a bit high - is something like 36 000 mm3 of plastic, copper, LEDs and so on. The fan motor alone is likely worth more in terms of materials than a CPU core ;)

All that being said, I'm happy we Noctua fans (no pun intended!) are suddenly looking like the sensible ones in terms of how much we pay for our fans. $20 apiece is suddenly quite cheap!

Are you kidding me? First, you basically just assumed what I'm thinking based on absolutely no evidence, and you're currently talking to someone who's business is to bring new products to market by dealing with the manufacturing side. When I made the statement I did, what I was basing it on is the fact that a CPU is REQUIRED for a PC, when multiple rings of addressable LEDs and fine grain LED software is NOT. It was based on the perspective of a customer, as opposed to a literal quantification of material and development costs. In other words, I feel like to many potential customers, spending a substantial more money on having controllable LEDs on your fans than on a brand new, high performance, 8 core CPU is a hard justification to make, akin to spending more money on Rims for a car, than on the engine, or even the car itself. But, I'll indulge you're incorrect attempt at making assumption on my thought process based on the thinnest evidence...

R&D costs on a fan? Lets be honest here, I seriously doubt if Thermaltake did even a tenth the level of testing on the fan's performance versus someone like Noctua. Dies, molds, production costs for the Riing Quad won't be anywhere out of what's normal for their previous RIING Trio or Duo, I can't know for sure, but I'm confident in saying they probably didn't have to pioneer some new manufacturing technique or method of injection molding. The Riing Quad isn't made from some new, still under patent, special plastic (I guarantee it's just the same ABS) or the Sterrox Liquid Crystal Polymer that Noctua developed and uses in their NF-A12x25 fans. Basically, the ONLY place I see increased R&D costs for a fan like this is in the software, but, if you have actually used the neon maker software (or any TT software), you'd know that it is pretty buggy at times (So it's not like they're spending tons on fully polishing it) and that the new neon maker software is mostly the features/code of their previous software with the addition of the timeline (which I'm sure wasn't too difficult to program).


....wait, are you a thermaltake employee....that's the only reason why someone would have said and done what you have....

AnarchoPrimitivAre you kidding me?

Yes, they are.

Valantar

Thermaltake, the leading PC DIY premium brand for Cooling, Gaming Gear, and Enthusiast Memory solutions

... I think Corsair might have a thing or two to say about that.

Me, xvi, the smartest and most handsome-looking TPU user that has a Calvin and Hobbes avatar and is eating a roast beef sandwich right now this very second who also is wearing green and black striped socks... is getting tired of these oddly specific introductory claims from manufacturers.

I think Thermaltake's prices are a little out of touch with reality but it looks like they're trying to push their controller (which appears to be required to use the fans) with it too which could explain some of the cost. It's also 30-zones per fan between three separate rings. Thermaltake offers a more generic ARGB fan with fewer zones (I assume) which is $60 for a 3-pack, roughly what I would expect an RGB fan to go for. Even the low-end no-name brand ARGB fans seem to start at $15.
(Edit: Just found a 6-pack 120mm ARGB fan with controller/splitter for $41 on Amazon. $6.83 per fan isn't too shabby but I suspect it'll disappoint on performance and longevity.)

AnarchoPrimitivAre you kidding me?

xviYes, they are.

Indeed I was.

AnarchoPrimitivAre you kidding me? First, you basically just assumed what I'm thinking based on absolutely no evidence, and you're currently talking to someone who's business is to bring new products to market by dealing with the manufacturing side. When I made the statement I did, what I was basing it on is the fact that a CPU is REQUIRED for a PC, when multiple rings of addressable LEDs and fine grain LED software is NOT. It was based on the perspective of a customer, as opposed to a literal quantification of material and development costs. In other words, I feel like to many potential customers, spending a substantial more money on having controllable LEDs on your fans than on a brand new, high performance, 8 core CPU is a hard justification to make, akin to spending more money on Rims for a car, than on the engine, or even the car itself. But, I'll indulge you're incorrect attempt at making assumption on my thought process based on the thinnest evidence...

R&D costs on a fan? Lets be honest here, I seriously doubt if Thermaltake did even a tenth the level of testing on the fan's performance versus someone like Noctua. Dies, molds, production costs for the Riing Quad won't be anywhere out of what's normal for their previous RIING Trio or Duo, I can't know for sure, but I'm confident in saying they probably didn't have to pioneer some new manufacturing technique or method of injection molding. The Riing Quad isn't made from some new, still under patent, special plastic (I guarantee it's just the same ABS) or the Sterrox Liquid Crystal Polymer that Noctua developed and uses in their NF-A12x25 fans. Basically, the ONLY place I see increased R&D costs for a fan like this is in the software, but, if you have actually used the neon maker software (or any TT software), you'd know that it is pretty buggy at times (So it's not like they're spending tons on fully polishing it) and that the new neon maker software is mostly the features/code of their previous software with the addition of the timeline (which I'm sure wasn't too difficult to program).


....wait, are you a thermaltake employee....that's the only reason why someone would have said and done what you have....

Dude, did you honestly think that post was meant seriously? For long enough to write that entire rant? Are you kidding? Maybe next time, take a step back and think: if a post is too outrageously absurd to be believed, maybe that is the whole damn point? That really shouldn't have required very much mental effort. I was, after all, arguing that we should judge CPUs - which cost billions of dollars in R&D and are produced with some of the most advanced manufacturing methods humans have invented - by the value of the quantity of materials involved (and nothing else). To read that as if someone is making a serious point ... :rolleyes:

Vayra86I know you're joking, but its really not :p 11-15, is about as far as I'll go, personally... and that is already taking it pretty far. And there are tons of Noctua equivalents for that money...

And yeah, a 40 bucks mark up for a pretty light & software... I don't know, some wiring is messed up if one thinks that is somehow a good deal.

Given that I demand both good airflow through a radiator in a small, restricted space and silence I don't mind paying for Noctuas - but then I don't use large enough cases to need more than 3-4 fans either, so the total expense isn't that huge. And as time goes by, case size and fan count is likely to go down, not up. I'm well aware that there are great alternatives delivering 80-90% of the perf/noise of Noctua at half the price - I'm just choosing to go with what I know works and which has very demonstrably excellent longevity to go with it, and I don't mind paying a premium that will drown in the price of the rest of the build anyhow. Then again, I'm currently using BeQuiet Silent Wings 3s on my front rad and a Gentle Typhoon 1850 on the rear - bought them all before the NF-A12x25 launched. The SW3s will probably be replaced and moved to another build at some point, but that's mainly because I was dumb enough to buy the low rpm version of the SW3s and I would like the option for better maximum cooling performance if I want it. But of course both the GT and the SW3s cost just as much as Noctuas :p

ValantarI was dumb enough to buy the low rpm version of the SW3s

On that, I have the 2200 RPM versions, but damn, that is noisy at anything over 45% PWM. They still move air below that, luckily. But its not the same as having the low RPM version, still is a different motor I guess.

That said, at 2200 RPM they feel like

Vayra86On that, I have the 2200 RPM versions, but damn, that is noisy at anything over 45% PWM. They still move air below that, luckily. But its not the same as having the low RPM version, still is a different motor I guess.

The 1450rpm version is nice and quiet even at max rpm, so I'm very happy with them in that regard - I would just like the option of just a bit more performance in a pinch - I am dumping ~350W of heat into a 3x120mm radiator setup after all, so it's not the coolest running loop. I believe the NF-A12x25 is comparable in noise to the 1450rpm SW3s at similar RPMs, and supposedly quieter than the 2200rpm version at high speed, so when I can afford it and bother to tear down my system (likely alongside my next GPU upgrade, which is hopefully coming this year) it's likely I'll stick some Noctuas on there instead.

Vayra86That said, at 2200 RPM they feel like

:laugh:
That is definitely a different experience from the 1450rpms.