TheLostSwedeChina is also a LOT poorer than the US+EU, so the population doesn't matter. Go outside any of the big cities and people live like they did in the US and Europe close to 100 years ago.

China has what's known as the 3-5-2 program, which means that by 2021, they want 80% off all locally used computers, to be made from parts that have been produced in China, by Chinese companies.
However, I doubt China will be dominating anything outside of China, too many countries are suspicious of Chinese tech. If there are no buyers, how could they dominate anything?

They already have a ton of Chinese made CPUs, most of them have never seen the light outside Chinese government agencies.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Science_and_technology_in_China#Microprocessors

Chinese people are poorer (not by much around #60 in GDP per capita), China is second only to the US in GDP. Regardles of that, there's a reason why China has the GDP is has and its because of all the manufacturing they do for everyone else. The (more rich) Europeans still like to buy their stuff from Aliexepress and Banggood, despite buying items locally (items which will be manufactured in China anyway).

The population does matter and China can sell not only to their 1.5 billion but also to all the other poorer countries around the world and to countries who don't like the US (quiet a few of them as well). They already dominate manufacturing, if they stop producing you iPhones who will and for how much?

Wow, that is a lot less China bashing than I expected in this thread

TheLostSwedeChina is also a LOT poorer than the US+EU, so the population doesn't matter. Go outside any of the big cities and people live like they did in the US and Europe close to 100 years ago.

Might be true 10 years ago but the rural areas are catching up at a stupidly fast pace. I visited the farm where my wife grew up, apparently they were about as poor as you can imagine in the cold war era. About a decade ago, they started getting fiber optic internet, underfloor heat pump and what not. All of a sudden that village is more comfortable than most places I could find in New Zealand.

TheLostSwedeChina has what's known as the 3-5-2 program, which means that by 2021, they want 80% off all locally used computers, to be made from parts that have been produced in China, by Chinese companies.
However, I doubt China will be dominating anything outside of China, too many countries are suspicious of Chinese tech. If there are no buyers, how could they dominate anything?

Depends on how we define "dominate." A lot of developing countries in middle east and Africa don't mind Chinese stuff. They can flood the market and lead in market share. Top performance though, I'll believe it when I see it.

demian_viChinese people are poorer (not by much around #60 in GDP per capita), China is second only to the US in GDP. Regardles of that, there's a reason why China has the GDP is has and its because of all the manufacturing they do for everyone else. The (more rich) Europeans still like to buy their stuff from Aliexepress and Banggood, despite buying items locally (items which will be manufactured in China anyway).

The population does matter and China can sell not only to their 1.5 billion but also to all the other poorer countries around the world and to countries who don't like the US (quiet a few of them as well). They already dominate manufacturing, if they stop producing you iPhones who will and for how much?

We also need to look at disposable income numbers. Comparing to people back in New Zealand, I only make a little more than a graduate, but the amount of disposable income I get in China is something I can only dream of back home.

Vya DomusI saw locally produced cars well outside the bounds of Eastern Europe, that doesn't mean my country became a automotive colossus, they're still a spec of dust.

I'm not talking about individually imported vehicles, I'm talking about official brand presence. Dealerships, bulk import deals, and in some cases even assembly lines.
Small != insignificant. "Taking over" is somewhat extreme, but one can't deny that they are make good bets.

TartarosThat's a possibility, but still they have to break the korean-japanese holy grail of small cheap cars. Unless they step up their game with quality, I don't see that actually happening. Also, there are a lot of local brands that are part of multinational conglomerates, it's a tight market.

That's one thing you wouldn't expect them to worry much about. They have the money, buying out well known brands isn't an issue, Geely can attest to that.
Emerging markets care more for price than quality, so long that the latter meets a minimum operational requirements.
The standard for "cheap" is different around here. Given three, comparable, new vehicles, the Chinese one would end cheaper than a SK/JP one.

TartarosThat's a possibility, but still they have to break the korean-japanese holy grail of small cheap cars. Unless they step up their game with quality, I don't see that actually happening. Also, there are a lot of local brands that are part of multinational conglomerates, it's a tight market.

they did that with mobile phones and tvs at a lesser degree, forcing old players out of these 2 markets, why not do the same with cars? sub Saharan africa and south east asia like @Shihabyooo in combination with China itself is a huge market.

demian_viChinese people are poorer (not by much around #60 in GDP per capita), China is second only to the US in GDP. Regardles of that, there's a reason why China has the GDP is has and its because of all the manufacturing they do for everyone else. The (more rich) Europeans still like to buy their stuff from Aliexepress and Banggood, despite buying items locally (items which will be manufactured in China anyway).

The population does matter and China can sell not only to their 1.5 billion but also to all the other poorer countries around the world and to countries who don't like the US (quiet a few of them as well). They already dominate manufacturing, if they stop producing you iPhones who will and for how much?

GDP doesn't matter when half your population is at the brink of poverty. GDP doesn't matter when it comes to the buying power of the general populous, which was my point here. Even if these computers were to be widely available in China, most people couldn't afford to get one.

You're very clearly not keeping up with the current developments. A lot of manufacturing is being moved out of China at a comparatively record breaking speed. Taiwan, Vietnam, Cambodia, Malaysia and India is getting the bears share of it.

FlankerWow, that is a lot less China bashing than I expected in this thread

Might be true 10 years ago but the rural areas are catching up at a stupidly fast pace. I visited the farm where my wife grew up, apparently they were about as poor as you can imagine in the cold war era. About a decade ago, they started getting fiber optic internet, underfloor heat pump and what not. All of a sudden that village is more comfortable than most places I could find in New Zealand.

Depends on how we define "dominate." A lot of developing countries in middle east and Africa don't mind Chinese stuff. They can flood the market and lead in market share. Top performance though, I'll believe it when I see it.


We also need to look at disposable income numbers. Comparing to people back in New Zealand, I only make a little more than a graduate, but the amount of disposable income I get in China is something I can only dream of back home.

Nah, not really. She might be from a better part of the country, but a recent example are the coal miners. A lot of them have been made "redundant" as a lot of the Chinese coal mining companies are going bust. This was admittedly about two years ago I was reading about this, but most of them hadn't been paid for months and the government wasn't helping.

I'm not saying things haven't improved for some, but it's far from everyone. My first visit to China was admittedly about a dozen years ago by now, but people were still burning bituminous coal in little stoves in their homes not too far outside Shanghai.

Just because you can get something, doesn't mean you can afford it.

There's already enough chip, Chinese crap being sold in Africa. It doesn't last, I mean, not even the construction projects China is doing there last. They built a bridge in Kenya and it was so poorly constructed that it collapsed even before being finished...
qz.com/africa/1015554/a-chinese-built-bridge-collapsed-in-kenya-two-weeks-after-it-was-inspected-by-the-president/

I'm glad you're doing ok, but can you bring that money with you out of the country? I highly doubt it...

Vya DomusI don't hate anything, just can't see China taking over the automotive industry world wide like everyone thinks so apparently. Is that odd ?

Well technically it already has, like was said not worldwide but many companies dont opperate worldwide.
Peugeot, Renault and Citroen are as far as I know still not sold in the USA.
And the USA's nr1 car by miles is the Ford F150 which does not sell at all in Europe.

But the nr1 car in China....which...well idk what that is again, is sold WAAAAAAAAAAY more then anything else in the world, in China sure but the sales are insane compared to anything else out there.
So if you look at just cars sold, China is already doing way better then everyone else.

TheLostSwedeI'm not saying things haven't improved for some, but it's far from everyone. My first visit to China was admittedly about a dozen years ago by now, but people were still burning bituminous coal in little stoves in their homes not too far outside Shanghai.

Just because you can get something, doesn't mean you can afford it.

There's already enough chip, Chinese crap being sold in Africa. It doesn't last, I mean, not even the construction projects China is doing there last. They built a bridge in Kenya and it was so poorly constructed that it collapsed even before being finished...
qz.com/africa/1015554/a-chinese-built-bridge-collapsed-in-kenya-two-weeks-after-it-was-inspected-by-the-president/

I'm glad you're doing ok, but can you bring that money with you out of the country? I highly doubt it...

Shanghai is a bit... odd, the locals are proud of doing things just to add to their identity.

I think some of the stuff you have to see it to believe it. My wife's family had to make every single grain harvested count just to get by when she was a kid. Her village still has some old rough sheds that looks like something from documentaries, except with ad banners for things like 100mb/s internet for 20rmb per month. They just need to teach the older folks to use their phones while their grand kids were spending way too much time playing some battle royale games on their phones. Water and electricity costs practically nothing with subsidies to farmers (guess they forgot about miners...), but again, the older folks prefer burning corn cobs to using electric heaters...

You're right about the disparity. The eastern regions are definitely getting better. The north western regions still have miles ahead of them, traveling to these places felt like going through a time machine.

That kenya bridge brought so many facepalms it's hilarious in a disturbing way, hope the people injured are okay. Let's hope the railroads in Laos have better luck. geez.

Moving money out of China is okay on a personal level. USD 50K per year, no questions asked. More than that and it involves having a chat with a bank teller and let her fill out some forms for you.

I think a lot of people are getting China and Taiwan confused.

China's best fab is a state funded SMIC 14nm fab that just went into production, with a stated capacity of 6000 wafers / month. Keep in mind this is probably not comparable to Intel 14nm, since even in comparison to TSMC/GloFlo/Samsung, Intel's fab is more like their 10-12nm not their 14nm. Most of what I've read indicates SMIC 14nm is about like Intel 22nm.

To get one of those chips into the hands of 10% of the Chinese population at that rate would take 1,944.4 years (yes years).

China makes a lot of chips but they are mostly lower tech 300-65nm type parts.

Same goes for discrete semi components like capacitors and even LCDs. Japan and Taiwan are where the best OLED/LCDs are made, the cheap $500 65" Wal-Mart TVs yeah those are made in China. Same goes for caps and so on. China = quantity, but even their quantity is largely the result of investment from Japanese / Taiwanese companies that built fabs and plants there.

That is rapidly changing, and I have seen little indication of China being able to stand on its own.

Look at what they had to do to get an aircraft carrier - buy one from Russia and finish it, then copy it. They tried to copy the SU-27 aircraft, got it done but couldn't build an engine worth a crap so had to start buying them from Russia.

There's very little indigenous design from China, including cars, just cheap copies. With the lack of protection for anyone who does anything innovative why would their be any innovation? You make something cool, a month later some manufacturer is already setup and building a cheap copy. I've read where that literally happens regularly. They aren't really competing they are just stealing.

RandallFlaggI think a lot of people are getting China and Taiwan confused.

China's best fab is a state funded SMIC 14nm fab that just went into production, with a stated capacity of 6000 wafers / month. Keep in mind this is probably not comparable to Intel 14nm, since even in comparison to TSMC/GloFlo/Samsung, Intel's fab is more like their 10-12nm not their 14nm. Most of what I've read indicates SMIC 14nm is about like Intel 22nm.

To get one of those chips into the hands of 10% of the Chinese population at that rate would take 1,944.4 years (yes years).

China makes a lot of chips but they are mostly lower tech 300-65nm type parts.

Same goes for discrete semi components like capacitors and even LCDs. Japan and Taiwan are where the best OLED/LCDs are made, the cheap $500 65" Wal-Mart TVs yeah those are made in China. Same goes for caps and so on. China = quantity, but even their quantity is largely the result of investment from Japanese / Taiwanese companies that built fabs and plants there.

That is rapidly changing, and I have seen little indication of China being able to stand on its own.

Look at what they had to do to get an aircraft carrier - buy one from Russia and finish it, then copy it. They tried to copy the SU-27 aircraft, got it done but couldn't build an engine worth a crap so had to start buying them from Russia.

There's very little indigenous design from China, including cars, just cheap copies. With the lack of protection for anyone who does anything innovative why would their be any innovation? You make something cool, a month later some manufacturer is already setup and building a cheap copy. I've read where that literally happens regularly. They aren't really competing they are just stealing.

You kind of forgot about Korea and Korean companies investing in China. Samsung and LG have made most of their lower cost panels in China for some years now, but are apparently considering pulling out.

TheLostSwedeYou kind of forgot about Korea and Korean companies investing in China. Samsung and LG have made most of their lower cost panels in China for some years now, but are apparently considering pulling out.

Correct, I had japan on my mind because I was looking at LCD plants. But yes, they used to call them the 'Asian Tigers' aka Japan / S Korea / Taiwan. This is where most of the real innovation in electronics is coming from, not from China.

I think they made a big mistake putting factories in China, all China does is steal their IP and ignore international law that should protect them, and nobody cares. If china were actually sued for all the IP infringement, they would either go broke in a heartbeat or be locked out of all international trade. It's that bad.

On cars for example....

This is the Land Wind X7 - Ranger Rover knockoff.

RandallFlaggCorrect, I had japan on my mind because I was looking at LCD plants. But yes, they used to call them the 'Asian Tigers' aka Japan / S Korea / Taiwan. This is where most of the real innovation in electronics is coming from, not from China.

I think they made a big mistake putting factories in China, all China does is steal their IP and ignore international law that should protect them, and nobody cares. If china were actually sued for all the IP infringement, they would either go broke in a heartbeat or be locked out of all international trade. It's that bad.

On cars for example....

This is the Land Wind X7 - Ranger Rover knockoff.

And
www.autoevolution.com/news/bmw-loses-x5-clone-lawsuit-2772.html

Here's an even better one.

Fake gold:

realmoney.thestreet.com/investing/global-equity/china-s-kingold-jewelry-allegedly-used-fake-gold-to-secure-huge-loans-15365197

TheLostSwedeGDP doesn't matter when half your population is at the brink of poverty. GDP doesn't matter when it comes to the buying power of the general populous, which was my point here. Even if these computers were to be widely available in China, most people couldn't afford to get one.

GDP per capita does, there are people at the brind of poverty everywhere, that's not a Chinese phenomenon. in non-American-sphere-of influence countries people will buy Chinese hardware like they are already bying Chinse phones, that's a fact.

TheLostSwedeYou're very clearly not keeping up with the current developments. A lot of manufacturing is being moved out of China at a comparatively record breaking speed. Taiwan, Vietnam, Cambodia, Malaysia and India is getting the bears share of it.

And yet most things are still made in China, I'll believe it when I see it. Let's wait and see what happens when Trump loses the next elections...

RandallFlaggCorrect, I had japan on my mind because I was looking at LCD plants. But yes, they used to call them the 'Asian Tigers' aka Japan / S Korea / Taiwan. This is where most of the real innovation in electronics is coming from, not from China.

I think they made a big mistake putting factories in China, all China does is steal their IP and ignore international law that should protect them, and nobody cares. If china were actually sued for all the IP infringement, they would either go broke in a heartbeat or be locked out of all international trade. It's that bad.

On cars for example....

This is the Land Wind X7 - Ranger Rover knockoff.

That's what happens when the only thing that matters is cost. Then the lowest bidder wins.

Back in the "good old days" China also required a 51% ownership of the local company and IP transfers to even allow foreign companies to operate in China. I think the companies that agree to that had a hole in their head.
Then China got enough money to buy foreign companies that weren't doing so hot, so now they own plenty of foreign companies, some are well known, some less so.

I mean, Volvo is mainly Chinese these days after the US car makers pulled out...

demian_viGDP per capita does, there are people at the brind of poverty everywhere, that's not a Chinese phenomenon. in non-American-sphere-of influence countries people will buy Chinese hardware like they are already bying Chinse phones, that's a fact.

And yet most things are still made in China, I'll believe it when I see it. Let's wait and see what happens when Trump loses the next elections...

Well, there's a difference, at least in most countries, maybe not the US, but in most countries, the really dirt poor is a tiny percentage of people, whereas in China, I would guess there are as many as in India, simply due to the huge population. And I wouldn't trust things like GDP per capita out of China, they make up whatever numbers they want when it comes to what's show outside of the country. No doubt China has one well in the past 10-15 years, but that doesn't equal that it got better for everyone in China.

Sure, so far. As I said, the move has started, plenty of the Taiwanese companies are now vary about the situation between the two nations and are moving things back home, or to other south east Asian countries. Many US companies are doing the same. Europe has been a bit slow, but has finally woken up.

The Wuhan virus is now speeding this transition up and many companies want to spread out their production facilities to multiple countries if possible, so they don't end up in a situation where they only have one supplier in one nation when shit hits the fan. Will things still be produced in China? Of course, but it'll be far less than what they've made up until this year.

Not sure what any of this has to do with Trump, it has everything to do with nations waking up and realising that China is 1. a place where exotic diseases breed 2. they don't follow agreements they sign (Hong Kong) 3. they're a totalitarian state that treats minorities in its own country worse than animals and they don't treat those very well 4. you can now be arrested in any Chinese territory if they find out you've ever said anything in favour of Hong Kong's independence movement. Obviously some of these things will be quickly forgotten, but it's already enough to have started a shift away from China.

FYI, I've lived in Taiwan for the past 13 years, so I believe I have a little bit of insight in what's going on, as things about China are in the news daily there, unlike in Europe, where China is barely mentioned, unless it comes out they've done something really, really bad.

The last time I will pass though Hong Kong will be on the 16th of this month, as I've finally gotten a flight home, as this really, really scares me.
hongkongfp.com/2020/07/06/breaking-hong-kong-security-law-police-handed-power-to-do-warrantless-searches-freeze-assets-intercept-comms-control-internet/

Slow and expensive, but at least it has a "K" designated processor to please Intel fans. :laugh:

Their server performace is nothing short of respectable, though.

Pretty soon the world will realize that the Orange Face did them a huge favor. And it will have a far-reaching consequences.

TheLostSwedeThey built a bridge in Kenya and it was so poorly constructed that it collapsed even before being finished...
qz.com/africa/1015554/a-chinese-built-bridge-collapsed-in-kenya-two-weeks-after-it-was-inspected-by-the-president/

I'm glad you're doing ok, but can you bring that money with you out of the country? I highly doubt it...

The same happened to the Chinese bridges in Miami and Ontario, oh wait...

www.nytimes.com/2019/10/22/us/bridge-collapse-florida-international-university-NTSB.html

globalnews.ca/news/2957484/design-improperly-tightened-bolts-named-as-factors-in-nipigon-bridge-failure/

RandallFlaggSame goes for discrete semi components like capacitors and even LCDs. Japan and Taiwan are where the best OLED/LCDs are made, the cheap $500 65" Wal-Mart TVs yeah those are made in China. Same goes for caps and so on. China = quantity, but even their quantity is largely the result of investment from Japanese / Taiwanese companies that built fabs and plants there.

That is rapidly changing, and I have seen little indication of China being able to stand on its own.

Look at what they had to do to get an aircraft carrier - buy one from Russia and finish it, then copy it. They tried to copy the SU-27 aircraft, got it done but couldn't build an engine worth a crap so had to start buying them from Russia.

There's very little indigenous design from China, including cars, just cheap copies. With the lack of protection for anyone who does anything innovative why would their be any innovation? You make something cool, a month later some manufacturer is already setup and building a cheap copy. I've read where that literally happens regularly. They aren't really competing they are just stealing.

Totally objective(!?) post, however more Googling is needed. the biggest LCD manufacturer is the Chinese BOE, the biggest monitor manufacturer is the Chinese TPV Technology. the iconic Japanese LCD manufacturer Japan Display was bailed out, has a factory sitting idle and owes 800M to Apple. meanwhile SHarp and Toshiba have licensed their brands, while Chinese TV manufacturers are ging to exploded just like Chinse mobile brands

RandallFlaggCorrect, I had japan on my mind because I was looking at LCD plants. But yes, they used to call them the 'Asian Tigers' aka Japan / S Korea / Taiwan. This is where most of the real innovation in electronics is coming from, not from China.

I think they made a big mistake putting factories in China, all China does is steal their IP and ignore international law that should protect them, and nobody cares. If china were actually sued for all the IP infringement, they would either go broke in a heartbeat or be locked out of all international trade. It's that bad.

On cars for example....

This is the Land Wind X7 - Ranger Rover knockoff.

Bad Chinese, while noone else is infirnging IPs
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smartphone_patent_wars

demian_viThe same happened to the Chinese bridges in Miami and Ontario, oh wait...

www.nytimes.com/2019/10/22/us/bridge-collapse-florida-international-university-NTSB.html

globalnews.ca/news/2957484/design-improperly-tightened-bolts-named-as-factors-in-nipigon-bridge-failure/




Totally objective(!?) post, however more Googling is needed. the biggest LCD manufacturer is the Chinese BOE, the biggest monitor manufacturer is the Chinese TPV Technology. the iconic Japanese LCD manufacturer Japan Display was bailed out, has a factory sitting idle and owes 800M to Apple. meanwhile SHarp and Toshiba have licensed their brands, while Chinese TV manufacturers are ging to exploded just like Chinse mobile brands



Bad Chinese, while noone else is infirnging IPs
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smartphone_patent_wars

Right, I forgot Greece is a Chinese pawn these days, courtesy of the Belt and Road program. How does it feel to have sold your nations soul to the devil?

The Sharp and Toshiba TV brands are owned by... Foxconn... Which is a TAIWANESE company, not Chinese... :rolleyes:

demian_viTotally objective(!?) post, however more Googling is needed. the biggest LCD manufacturer is the Chinese BOE, the biggest monitor manufacturer is the Chinese TPV Technology. the iconic Japanese LCD manufacturer Japan Display was bailed out, has a factory sitting idle and owes 800M to Apple. meanwhile SHarp and Toshiba have licensed their brands, while Chinese TV manufacturers are ging to exploded just like Chinse mobile brands

I said nothing about them not being the biggest, In fact I *did* said they were all about QUANTITY. They are not about leading edge nor quality.

Quantity does not necessarily have quality even with people. If it did, the Chinese would not be behind everyone now - as they've always had quantity. Right now China is mostly busy trying to convince people how good their system is, not actually having a good system.

It's a cultural problem and a political problem with a repressive government and a lack of respect for IP / the work of others that infects China. That type of problem is not going away anytime soon, so no matter what happens China will not come out on top - unless those things are fixed first.

TheLostSwedeRight, I forgot Greece is a Chinese pawn these days, courtesy of the Belt and Road program. How does it feel to have sold your nations soul to the devil?

The Sharp and Toshiba TV brands are owned by... Foxconn... Which is a TAIWANESE company, not Chinese... :rolleyes:

I disagree with you on all of your posts in this thread.
First of all, the devil is everywhere, especially in the States. Which through its "spreading democracy" programme in countries like some in the Middle East and North Africa, and many others, spreads chaos, instead of order.

Also, where is the US in the Ranking of the most advanced and highly developed countries with respect to the human development ?


hdr.undp.org/en/content/2019-human-development-index-ranking

The US is quite low, TBH.
Only military might is the thing that keeps them united.
Their human resources are mostly from other countries, while the British-Americans are weaker.

TheLostSwedeRight, I forgot Greece is a Chinese pawn these days, courtesy of the Belt and Road program. How does it feel to have sold your nations soul to the devil?

The Sharp and Toshiba TV brands are owned by... Foxconn... Which is a TAIWANESE company, not Chinese... :rolleyes:

Clearly when you don't have arguments you forget a lot of things like replying on the subject and start name calling and idiotic redneck accusations even Trump would be jealous of.

So first of all Greece is still under the American and EU sphere of influence, if not the Chinese would have bought our airports (which are sold to German Frapport), our old airport redevelopment ( where the casino is sold to Americans) and our defence contracts (which are mostly American anf French/German). they haven't and they only bough one port.

Also don't be ignorant, Google first. Toshiba sold its TV busined to HiSense=China (www.anandtech.com/show/12046/toshiba-sells-95-of-its-tv-business-unit-to-hisense), Vestel in Turkey manufactures most Japanese brands for EU market (Toshiba, Hitachi, Sharp, JVC and even some Panasonics www.avforums.com/threads/how-to-tell-if-your-tvs-a-vestel.2019864/) and Sharp indeed was sold to Foxconn. However again you missed my point or just ignored it, the point is that Japan is not a tiger anymore, it's electronic industry is dying for a while now. thats why you gracefully avoided mentioning Japan Display at all

Honestly I would expect a better reply from the know-it-all master of the site, one with less bitternes and more facts. They might have taken Volvo, but don't be afraid they wont take Ericsson yet.

p.s. Your friend "last night in Sweden..." would be proud of you.

demian_viClearly when you don't have arguments you forget a lot of things like replying on the subject and start name calling and idiotic redneck accusations even Trump would be jealous of.

So first of all Greece is still under the American and EU sphere of influence, if not the Chinese would have bought our airports (which are sold to German Frapport), our old airport redevelopment ( where the casino is sold to Americans) and our defence contracts (which are mostly American anf French/German). they haven't and they only bough one port.

Also don't be ignorant, Google first. Toshiba sold its TV busined to HiSense=China (www.anandtech.com/show/12046/toshiba-sells-95-of-its-tv-business-unit-to-hisense), Vestel in Turkey manufactures most Japanese brands for EU market (Toshiba, Hitachi, Sharp, JVC and even some Panasonics www.avforums.com/threads/how-to-tell-if-your-tvs-a-vestel.2019864/) and Sharp indeed was sold to Foxconn. However again you missed my point or just ignored it, the point is that Japan is not a tiger anymore, it's electronic industry is dying for a while now. thats why you gracefully avoided mentioning Japan Display at all

Honestly I would expect a better reply from the know-it-all master of the site, one with less bitternes and more facts. They might have taken Volvo, but don't be afraid they wont take Ericsson yet.

p.s. Your friend "last night in Sweden..." would be proud of you.

I wasn't name calling, Greece sold it's soul to the Chinese, alongside Italy. Both nations joined the belt and road initiative, that's a fact.
China wants ports, not airports. They even bought a few in Sweden, but somewhat underhanded as the government was unwilling to sell to them.

I was mistaken about Toshiba, but so was you...

from March 2015 new TVs carrying the Toshiba name are designed and produced by Compal Electronics, a Taiwanese company

So still owned by a Taiwanese company.

I don't get your last point. In jokes doesn't work if you're not in on it...

Oh good this turned into another China-vs-rest-of-the-world / China-isn't-evil-really / China-may-be-bad-but-other-countries-do-bad-things-too thread.

RandallFlaggI said nothing about them not being the biggest, In fact I *did* said they were all about QUANTITY. They are not about leading edge nor quality.

Quantity does not necessarily have quality even with people. If it did, the Chinese would not be behind everyone now - as they've always had quantity. Right now China is mostly busy trying to convince people how good their system is, not actually having a good system.

They lead in quality, otherwise Apple wouldn't be buying BOE Oled screens and LG wouldn't buy mobile screens from them. You mentioned Japan which is almost a non-player in LCD anymore just to say something. And you are obviously biased when you say that Chinese don't have quality as people..

ARFI disagree with you on all of your posts in this thread.
First of all, the devil is everywhere, especially in the States. Which through its "spreading democracy" programme in countries like some in the Middle East and North Africa, and many others, spreads chaos, instead of order.

Don't bother mentioning such complex things as spreading democrasy, everything wrong in the world is caused by China. they interfered in Afghanistan, they started WW2, did the Nanjing massacre, the war in Serbia, Middle East. not like the US who bring civilazation everywhere they go

ARFAlso, where is the US in the Ranking of the most advanced and highly developed countries with respect to the human development ?

A lot of anti-american and pro-china sentiment.

From your own highly subjective chart, the difference between #1 and the US is .954-.920 = 0.034

China is #85 with a score of 0.758. The difference in score between China and the US is 5X the difference between the US and #1 ranked Norway. Might want to be careful what you wish for.