moproblems99I put this in the same group as Gameworks or hell RTX. It only ever works well on the highest models of NV cards. Which few people have. Is it annoying? Yes. Give me a brand you are not forced into buying the ecosystem. I suspect most of the people complaining about this are posting from iPhones.

Maybe... though those technologies when implemented slow things down and is intended to make things look better. Also, RT + DLSS works much better on the 2nd generation. Nobody is telling people to buy AMD b/c of RT (unless they play games that support it or plan to use it).

You're not forced to buy into anything for Nvidia GPU to get 100% of it's performance. Buying an processor requires specific chipsets, but the difference is that performance doesn't change between chipsets.

I understand this is a bonus when buying into the ecosystem, but the numbers felt a bit disingenuous without seeing what the majority of users will get. There is also the fact that it doesn't always help and results are inconsistent across the titles they showed... from negligible (2%) to 13%(significant).

With the current situation of nvida having no stock and AMD cards haven't been released yet we have more information to debate on who would win if Hulk would fought Superman than amd vs nvdidia.

EarthDogMaybe... though those technologies when implemented slow things down and is intended to make things look better. Also, RT + DLSS works much better on the 2nd generation. Nobody is telling people to buy AMD b/c of RT (unless they play games that support it or plan to use it).

You're not forced to buy into anything for Nvidia GPU to get 100% of it's performance. Buying an processor requires specific chipsets, but the difference is that performance doesn't change between chipsets.

I understand this is a bonus when buying into the ecosystem, but the numbers felt a bit disingenuous without seeing what the majority of users will get. There is also the fact that it doesn't always help and results are inconsistent across the titles they showed... from negligible (2%) to 13%(significant).

I dont find it disingenuous at all. I mean if you seen the official press release they included charts with SAM yes but the comparison of 6800XT vs 3080 was showing without SAM. I took the SAM charts as what could be had with the latest and greatest AMD products. Those that strive for that extra bit of performance will be happy those that dont care will, well... not care. Reviewers will delve more into what you are looking for as far as results not including SAM. But as i mentioned, they did include results without SAM for 6800XT v 3080 so not totally disingenuous. Had every benchmark been with SAM then yea I would have been annoyed at that too lol.

EarthDogYou're not forced to buy into anything for Nvidia GPU to get 100% of it's performance.

I would argue G-Sync is about the closest they have.

EarthDogI understand this is a bonus when buying into the ecosystem, but the numbers felt a bit disingenuous without seeing what the majority of users will get. There is also the fact that it doesn't always help and results are inconsistent across the titles they showed... from negligible (2%) to 13%(significant).

I agree with you. 13% is quite a bit where mid single digits or less wouldn't be that bad.

moproblems99I would argue G-Sync is about the closest they have.

indeed... but it has nothing to do with performance. :)

EarthDogI'm thinking that people's concerns are over being encouraged (forced) to buy into the ecosystem to get these results or the GPU will be 2-13% slower

Your glass is half empty. The card is 2-13% faster with an AMD system :toast:

Patience for more reviews, and on more actual gaming.

According to AMD slides, 6800XT is 3080 equivalent out of the box on any system. That was the only "legit" comparison between RX 6000 and Ampere and in pure rasterization. Both 6800 and 6900XT was shown with SAM on and/or RageMode on (OC).
In a week we will know more...

Now all we need is for cards to actually be available and prices to come down

SAM is nice, but I think some of you guys are mistakenly comparing, supposedly card to card (aka: 6800/XT/6900/XT to 3700/3800/3900) and you argue the price/performance between the cards.
that's both right and wrong: if you wanne compare price/performance of the new radeons to price/performance of new nvidea, you should do so by including the additional costs of AMD mobo+AMD cpu+RAM+the card cost itself. it's funny people say you pay 700$ more from 3080 to 3090 for extra 10% performance, if you look at SAM - it is the same thing: to boost any of the AMD cards by 10% from SAM you need to pay the extra AMD mobo+AMD cpu+RAM which is the same thing you would do with nvidea: it's just that with nvidea you pay this money for the card iteself and not for the extra components (and you get the 10% extra performance on any system).

but here is what is smart: all this dosen't mater :) it's a waste in both case amd or nvidea to buy all that to get extra 10% performance. 700$ extra nvidea or whatever$ extra for AMD parts to get 10%.

EarthDogI'll reiterate.... Those with a 9900K+ or Zen2 likely won't touch these... it just doesn't make sense. Anything before that, sure. That being said again, I still don't see adoption rates for the whole ecosystem taking shape for several months at least, likely a year+. These CPUs are less available than NV GPUs. Have you seen the emails from etailers touting availability of 2021 at the earliest? B&H said March, even. :(

Yeah, I wouldn't be upgrading to any Zen 3 CPU any time soon. Now if I do see a $100 discount on a 5800X or 5900X (and am able to flip this 3800X for a reasonable price), then maybe. :laugh:

And this better performance if matched with ryzen 5xxx cpu will create extra work for the reviewers. They have to do the test with both intel and amd cpu's.
But all this falls into water if they can't supply decent quantity of both the cpu's and gpu's.

ODOGG26I dont find it disingenuous at all. I mean if you seen the official press release they included charts with SAM yes but the comparison of 6800XT vs 3080 was showing without SAM. I took the SAM charts as what could be had with the latest and greatest AMD products. Those that strive for that extra bit of performance will be happy those that dont care will, well... not care. Reviewers will delve more into what you are looking for as far as results not including SAM. But as i mentioned, they did include results without SAM for 6800XT v 3080 so not totally disingenuous. Had every benchmark been with SAM then yea I would have been annoyed at that too lol.

At this point, it seems like he's just looking for any pretext to be contentious toward AMD... He said himself that he owns Intel, and has no desire to upgrade.... What's weird is that he said he has a 10980xe which was basically non existent in the DIY market so if he doesn't own a pre-built, how'd he get one? Either way, he's basically stated he will in no way be a customer of AMD CPUs or GPUs, so what's the point of him picking them apart? Seems like there is absolutely no reasonable objective in doing it.

Also. In one of his original posts he said Zen3 raised prices a lot, and that's just not true. The 1800x released at $500, the 5800x is $450 with at least a 40% performance gain..... Can anyone, and I'm seriously asking, give an example of Intel having a core for core 40% bump in performance in three years, on the same socket, with a $50 dollar decrease in price while also being basically the fastest at everything? If that's happened in the last ten years, then fine, you can complain about AMD pricing, but I really don't think it has... People are incorrectly comparing Zen2 and Zen3 pricing.... Zen2 was the best at MOST things, but NOT everything, and the price reflected that.... Zen3 is the best at EVERYTHING and the price reflects that. This whole ridiculous notion that some people feel entitled to AMD having value pricing while being the best at everything is completely unrealistic and has to end.

AnarchoPrimitivAt this point, it seems like he's just looking for any pretext to be contentious toward AMD... He said himself that he owns Intel, and has no desire to upgrade.... What's weird is that he said he has a 10980xe which was basically non existent in the DIY market so of he doesn't own a pre-built, I feel like he's maybe not being so truthful. Either way, he's basically stated he will in now way be a customer of AMD CPUs or GPUs, so what's the point of him picking them apart.

Not sure how you missed my meaning... it wasn't subtle. Let's try again. :)

1. I don't bullshit. Feel free to go look in the Cinebench R23 thread (the closed one) for the results and proof I own a 10980XE (Link to buying one).

2. I don't own a prebuilt. I recently (a few weeks ago, pre Zen3) bought this chip. I couldn't find it for MONTHS prior to that time. In fact I forgot about it. Anyway, I got it for a good deal, and will cost me a pittance once the other chip sells. If I didn't get the deal, I would have stuck with what I had (a 16c/32t 7960X) for longer. In other words... Why would I 'upgrade' to Zen3 from my CPU today/upon Zen3 release? The performance difference is nill. Timing is everything! Had the timing been today, I would have a tough decision to make, no doubt (all money matters the same)! I'll quote exactly what I said again... you extracted context that simply wasn't there.

EarthDogI've got an i9-10980XE, previously a 7960x (see FS section, lol) for the cost of a 5950x... I'm not touching Zen3 with that monster.

Tell me, now that you've seen my quote, again.... how many people do you think would bail on a 10980XE they just bought a few weeks ago and is the 'latest and greatest' on that side for a 5950X? Not many at all. THAT, dear boy, is why I wouldn't buy Zen3 for the next couple of years. For the record, one of my children's PC rocks a Ryzen...Zen2. That machine has a 5700XT in it (what were you making up about me not owning an AMD GPU?). The Zen 1 rig would happily like a Zen3. The Zen2, MEH.
2a. Again, timing is everything... so is reading for comprehension instead of plucking out context that wasn't there. :)
3. Pricing...see below.

5950x ($750) / 3950x ($750) - Same (3950x = ~6 months later)
5900X ($550) / 3900X ($499) - Higher
5800X ($450) / 3800x ($399) - Higher
5600X ($299) / 3700x ($330) - Lower

I wish your perspective on pricing others have (and hope you do too) for Nvidia GPUs...they are the 'best at everything' (sans power use - and now 'tied' as the best, lol), prices dropped significantly and you are getting gobs more performance at a lower price than the previous generation card (yes, Turing was inflated, it is what it is). I just went over this in another thread, in fact.

That said, I do agree with your sentiment that AMD doesn't need to be cheaper now and people shouldn't expect it. I'm not saying there are out line, I simply said they cost more now... and at the moment, half of its product stack does... one is the same. Only one is the price lower.

EDIT: That said, let's see how these 6000 series GPUs shake out, eh? Can't say I need an upgrade from a 3080... but surely these are going to be really good cards using less power and priced a bit lower. And for those who can't get over the vRAM issue or mods their games to necessitating more, they have it at the ready. Here is to hoping the drivers continue the recent hot streak. :)

EarthDogNot sure what NV even has to do with this... or their 'fuckery'...w/e TF that means....feels like an oddly inserted poke...

1. Who portrays this as counter competitive efforts? Maybe some hardcore clueless fanboys...?

2. Consoles don't hunger for anything. It's a closed ecosytem that is easy to optimize for (think Apple).

3. Nvidia and Intel envious? lol... I doubt that.



4. So again......... I just want to see benchmarks that reflects what the MAJORITY of users will see. I want to see BOTH results so everyeone is aware of exactly how these cards perform on a SAM system and those without.

1. Given that their biggest to competitors tries their hardest to do just this, one does not have to eco others reflection. If you read my comment I specifically articulate 'I would argue' (so the quick answer is... not me.)
2. Your comment is agreeing 100% with my point: AMD CPU+GPU creates a closed ecosystem allowing optimization (hence smart access memory) Console are hungry for fps (without going into a long talk consoles are gamingpcs inferior when it comes to raw power)
3. Yes envious. This is why Intel is trying their best to develop a discret gpu themselves and why nvidia what to buy arm. If they did not see the benefit that AMD right now have, then they would not do these astronomical investments (they arnt just thinking: cool lets run a cpu bussiness parallel to our gpu bussiness.)
4. I want to see benchmarks too; but that does not alter the result or motivation behind. Anything that boost the performance is welcome

Anyone else waiting for a real bench mark.

And thinks maybe team green might have leaked the so called bench mark?