Meanwhile... Intel has started to fab GPUs and three server CPUs at TSMC. When asked if they were trying to block competitor's access to manufacturing capacity, Intel replied "you can't prove it".

Everyone wants they're cut of the elevated prices.
Not good.

6-9% for 5nm, 6nm and 7nm. 20% for 28nm. Starting from Q4 2020.

dicobaltMeanwhile... Intel has started to fab GPUs and three server CPUs at TSMC. When asked if they were trying to block competitor's access to manufacturing capacity, Intel replied "you can't prove it".

That was already disproven. Apple is first on 3nm, followed AMD, NVIDIA, MediaTek, and Qualcomm. Intel is at the back of the bus.

Back in this tread, i argued that it make no sense whatsoever for TSMC to give Intel priority over its strategic fabless customers.
www.techpowerup.com/forums/threads/intel-books-two-3-nm-processor-orders-at-tsmc-manufacturing-facilities.284081/

And the news.
www.hardwaretimes.com/apple-to-be-tmscs-only-3nm-client-in-2022-followed-by-amd-no-3nm-chips-for-intel-till-2023-report/

Every new year they increase capacity ( i know it's not for the same node ) yet every new year prices go up .... go figure . This has become the new favorite game of chip manufacturers , there is no way to prove they are artificially limiting the supply ( unless someone leaks internal directives assuming they do exist ) and the whole COVID pandemic is favoring their game even more . I wouldn't mind for multi-billion corporations to pay more but you know the drill , they aren't the ones paying the bill , we are !

Scalping of any type of resource that the world has become accustomed to, be it silicon, toilet paper, or whatever else, is comparable to a local water company raising the bill out of nowhere. It's abusive and completely unfair. Don't get me wrong, I like capitalism, but there is a reason why monopolies like utility companies are heavily regulated. If TSMC simply charged more for every new process they released, it might be fine. But when they mark up their old nodes, it becomes a problem for everyone else. If this regression in silicon pricing continues, then the governments would have no choice but to break up these fab companies, especially TSMC. Not that I would feel sorry for them...

RithsomScalping of any type of resource that the world has become accustomed to, be it silicon, toilet paper, or whatever else, is comparable to a local water company raising the bill out of nowhere. It's abusive and completely unfair. Don't get me wrong, I like capitalism, but there is a reason why monopolies like utility companies are heavily regulated. If TSMC simply charged more for every new process they released, it might be fine. But when they mark up their old nodes, it becomes a problem for everyone else. If this regression in silicon pricing continues, then the governments would have no choice but to break up these fab companies, especially TSMC. Not that I would feel sorry for them...

It's not TSMC's fault, it's just demand and supply, Intel was à leader and their messed up, Global Foundry did the same. If those two (especially Intel) didn't mess up we won't be in this mess mess with basically a monopoly worse still incapable of meeting demand.

I believe if you look this up in a dictionary it’s called gouging.

Xex360It's not TSMC's fault, it's just demand and supply, Intel was à leader and their messed up, Global Foundry did the same. If those two (especially Intel) didn't mess up we won't be in this mess mess with basically a monopoly worse still incapable of meeting demand.

TSMC is already making record profits with the current pricing of their nodes. They are not hurting whatsoever.

Raising the prices of their nodes by up to 20% is just taking advantage of the high demand.

I would just produce 1 wafer per year and sell it for 5 thousand billion dollars ... keeping up the shortage :kookoo:

SO what this article is saying, is that I should have bought that 5900x last week when it was on sale for $440 from BHPhoto... RIP my hesitation.

I dont understand people's an mass willingless to overpay for this crap, since when do so many people have soooo much money that they are ok with this......

The basics of supply and demand are such that when there is excess demand and insufficient supply, the price will rise. Those who can are going to increase production to benefit from the higher prices, which will increase supply, and lower prices. A new fab isn't built overnight though.

From cars, computers, and even refrigerators everything has a chip in it. This demand isn't just from us enthusiasts.

_FlareI would just produce 1 wafer per year and sell it for 5 thousand billion dollars ... keeping up the shortage :kookoo:

You would hand over your market to your competitors, a.k.a Intel and the onshore access to chip manufacturing project.

ZoneDymoI dont understand people's an mass willingless to overpay for this crap, since when do so many people have soooo much money that they are ok with this......

there is a very much three different worlds in the united states especially. the ultra wealthy, the very well off, and the middle class as it continues to get hollowed out into the poor class.

if you want to make money, good money and join the very well off types, its fairly simply, go to a community college, become an electrician, plumber, or something in-demand like that, and in 2 years you will be making 70-90k a year. and then $2 grand on a gpu is a joke to you.

lynx29there is a very much three different worlds in the united states especially. the ultra wealthy, the very well off, and the middle class as it continues to get hollowed out into the poor class.

if you want to make money, good money and join the very well off types, its fairly simply, go to a community college, become an electrician, plumber, or something in-demand like that, and in 2 years you will be making 70-90k a year. and then $2 grand on a gpu is a joke to you.

Just don't have any kids. The cost for kids is fucking outlandish. If the wife and I didn't have kids, we'd be well off.

MN daycare costs for a new born (6 weeks of age when you can have them in full time daycare) is upwards of $18k for a year (this was 6-7 years ago, it's probably gone up since). It slowly goes down from there as kids get older, but you're basically paying for the cost of a new car every year just to have someone else watch your kid. When my daughter was about 5 years old and my son was 2 months, they both went to daycare. The wife and I spent nearly $30k that year for daycare - this doesn't cover the costs of formula, diapers and wipes, either.

RithsomTSMC is already making record profits with the current pricing of their nodes. They are not hurting whatsoever.

Raising the prices of their nodes by up to 20% is just taking advantage of the high demand.

Again supply and demand. Demand isn't met due to several reasons, and no one else is capable of offering their cutting edge technology.

lynx29there is a very much three different worlds in the united states especially. the ultra wealthy, the very well off, and the middle class as it continues to get hollowed out into the poor class.

if you want to make money, good money and join the very well off types, its fairly simply, go to a community college, become an electrician, plumber, or something in-demand like that, and in 2 years you will be making 70-90k a year. and then $2 grand on a gpu is a joke to you.

So basically you are saying the world apperently is filled with plumbers and electricians, something in-demand like that, who all can and will buy gpu's for these absurd prices facilitating them?

at this rate im stuck with a shitty gpu til 2031

ZoneDymoSo basically you are saying the world apperently is filled with plumbers and electricians, something in-demand like that, who all can and will buy gpu's for these absurd prices facilitating them?

nope, I am saying major in something in demand that pays well, and you can do as you please in life. or continue to complain on a forum, whichever you choose.

lynx29nope, I am saying major in something in demand that pays well, and you can do as you please in life. or continue to complain on a forum, whichever you choose.

idk why you suddenly make this seem like a personal attack on me?
I have a fine job, I can afford these cards, im not WILLING to pay that much for such a product, im not WILLING to go along with these inflated prices and its bewildering to me that apperently SO MANY seemingly are completely fine with this and thus must have obscene amounts of cash that this is of absolutely no influence on their decision making thus enabling these prices to stay there.

if people were more like me and just flat out refused to pay that much, well then prices would have to come down until they are, that is what my post is about....

Xex360Again supply and demand. Demand isn't met due to several reasons, and no one else is capable of offering their cutting edge technology.

Of course! That is the nature of the free market.

...but that is the big problem of the free market, too. It's why welfare capitalism has pretty much taken the place of pure capitalism by the end of the Industrial Revolution. Companies should have incentive to grow and thrive, but after a certain point they need to be regulated, no?

Just because TSMC can gouge the market doesn't make it alright for them to do so...

ZoneDymoidk why you suddenly make this seem like a personal attack on me?
I have a fine job, I can afford these cards, im not WILLING to pay that much for such a product, im not WILLING to go along with these inflated prices and its bewildering to me that apperently SO MANY seemingly are completely fine with this and thus must have obscene amounts of cash that this is of absolutely no influence on their decision making thus enabling these prices to stay there.

if people were more like me and just flat out refused to pay that much, well then prices would have to come down until they are, that is what my post is about....

not a personal attack, and not for you. a general statement rebuttal about how to survive in capitalism is all it was.

i'm not willing to pay high prices either. so good on you. let's hope markets stabilize someday, until then, lets enjoy other hobbies.

RithsomTSMC is already making record profits with the current pricing of their nodes. They are not hurting whatsoever.

Raising the prices of their nodes by up to 20% is just taking advantage of the high demand.

Economics 101.

lynx29there is a very much three different worlds in the united states especially. the ultra wealthy, the very well off, and the middle class as it continues to get hollowed out into the poor class.

if you want to make money, good money and join the very well off types, its fairly simply, go to a community college, become an electrician, plumber, or something in-demand like that, and in 2 years you will be making 70-90k a year. and then $2 grand on a gpu is a joke to you.

Just need to point out that Electricians and Plumbers will not make 70-90k right after school, as they have to go through an apprenticeship program and become licensed, and even after that, they won't be making anything near 70k, unless they live in an outrageously high-cost-of-living area. Median wage is ~$56k, strictly middle class, much closer to lower middle class that the median.

I find $2k for a GPU to indeed be a bad joke. Similarly I find the idea of cryptocurrency as it stands right now a joke. Cryptocurrency just uses massive amounts of power, mostly of which comes from nonrenewable sources, to make unique worthless digital identifiers that people with vast amounts of wealth can hype to pump up, and make loads of money doing so due to lack of regulation(it's illegal to do this with stocks). That, and pretending cryptocurrency is a viable solution to government currency while being so laughably unstable in value, not to mention the only people that actually own it are the people that mine it, this just replaces one centralized power(government) with another(wealthy corporations/people that can afford huge mining farms).