RandallFlaggYou can't legitimately do core to core comparisons between big.LITTLE and what went before. That type comparison will make it easy to come up with red herring arguments I'm sure, but in the end the only thing that matters or has ever really mattered is a combination of cost / performance / efficiency.

Ultimately the comparison will and should be based on price points. Based on what little has leaked on price and assuming it is accurate, AL should force all of the AMD Zen 3 chips down $50-$100 from current prices. If comparisons are done at MSRP as they usually do, AMD will suffer badly until they adjust their MSRPs. Regardless of which brand you prefer, I don't see any of that as a bad thing.

Chrispy_It all comes down to performance/$ for most people, and that's street price not MSRP.

5600X has the advantage over the 11600K since you don't need to fork out for a Z590 chipset to use RAM of a decent speed. So it's either cheaper or faster depending on whether you buy a Z590 board.

Both the 5600X and 11600K are being largely ignored by the consumer market though, because the 10400F and 11500F offer enough performance and vastly better performance/$ even when using a locked B560 chipset and 2933MHz DDR4. If anything, AMD's refusal to sell a vanilla R55 5600 is hurting them because the vanilla R5 3600 was their best selling CPU last generation thanks to its strong performance and affordable selection of motherboards.

If Alder Lake is good and the leaked performance is valid across more benchmarks and real-world scenarios, the real decider will be what price Intel charge for it, followed by availabiliy and what price that ends up being at retail for a paying customer. i5-12600K may well beat 5600X but if the premium pushes it into the price territory of a B550 board and 5800X or even 5900X, it's going to fare poorly. We will simply have to wait and see how the dust settles after launch and after reviews.

RandallFlaggThese things are all a matter of perspective, I think you're speaking from a DIY viewpoint.

It's interesting to note, the #1 selling CPU on Amazon is the 5800X followed by 5950X. Neither of these are low end. However, the #1 selling PC is a 11600K @$1500, #2 is an AIO with a 3050U and that is the only AMD CPU in the top 10 selling OEM / prebuilt desktop list - the entire rig costs less than a 5900X. #4, #6, and #7 are all 10400's. At the moment you don't see another AMD until #15 and that's another AIO 3150U.

But AMD seems to dominate in the DIY space. Looking at Microcenter I see the same thing for individual chips as at Amazon, Intel has a few chips in the top 10 but AMD always seems to have #1/#2.

It'll be interesting to see if the DIY rankings change with AL.

Chrispy_It all comes down to performance/$ for most people, and that's street price not MSRP.
5600X has the advantage over the 11600K since you don't need to fork out for a Z590 chipset to use RAM of a decent speed. So it's either cheaper or faster depending on whether you buy a Z590 board.

Both the 5600X and 11600K are being largely ignored by the consumer market though, because the 10400F and 11500F offer enough performance and vastly better performance/$ even when using a locked B560 chipset and 2933MHz DDR4. If anything, AMD's refusal to sell a vanilla R55 5600 is hurting them because the vanilla R5 3600 was their best selling CPU last generation thanks to its strong performance and affordable selection of motherboards.

If Alder Lake is good and the leaked performance is valid across more benchmarks and real-world scenarios, the real decider will be what price Intel charge for it, followed by availabiliy and what price that ends up being at retail for a paying customer. i5-12600K may well beat 5600X but if the premium pushes it into the price territory of a B550 board and 5800X or even 5900X, it's going to fare poorly. We will simply have to wait and see how the dust settles after launch and after reviews.

Why_Mewww.newegg.com/p/N82E16813144396
MSI MAG B560M BAZOOKA $139.99

www.msi.com/Motherboard/MAG-B560M-BAZOOKA
DDR4 MEMORY: 5066(OC)/ 5000(OC)/ 4800(OC)/ 4600(OC)/ 4533(OC)/ 4400(OC)/ 4300(OC)/ 4266(OC)/ 4200(OC)/ 4133(OC)/ 4000(OC)/ 3866(OC)/ 3733(OC)/ 3600(OC)/ 3466(OC)/ 3400(OC)/ 3333(OC)/ 3300(OC)/ 3200(OC)/ 3000(OC)/ 2933(JEDEC)/ 2666(JEDEC)/ 2400(JEDEC)/ 2133(JEDEC) MHz

www.newegg.com/gigabyte-b560m-aorus-pro/p/N82E16813145332
GIGABYTE AORUS B560M $139.99

www.gigabyte.com/Motherboard/B560M-AORUS-ELITE-rev-10#kf
DDR4 MEMORY: DDR4 5333(O.C.)/ DDR4 5133(O.C.)/DDR4 5000(O.C.)/4933(O.C.)/4800(O.C.)/ 4700(O.C.)/ 4600(O.C.)/ 4500(O.C.)/ 4400(O.C.)/ 4300(O.C.)/4266(O.C.) / 4133(O.C.) / 4000(O.C.) / 3866(O.C.) / 3800(O.C.) / 3733(O.C.) / 3666(O.C.) / 3600(O.C.) / 3466(O.C.) / 3400(O.C.) / 3333(O.C.) / 3300(O.C.) / 3200 / 3000 / 2933 / 2800 / 2666 / 2400 / 2133 MHz memory modules

Chrispy_Oh right, sorry - was confusing the RAM speed lock between non-K chips in B560 boards and K-series overclocking requiring a Z-series board. It's all stupid product segmentation BS.
Not sure what you linked the board temperature chart for though.... ?

Either way, you can drop a 5600X into almost any B450/A520 board starting from about $60 unless you need PCIe 4.0 storage, in which case B550 boards start at $80.
I'm not here to argue minutae. Read the reviews and buy whatever makes sense for you.

As a gamer, a stock 5600X in a cheap board is better than even an overclocked 11600K on Z590.
As a non-gamer, it's a wash with minor advantage going to the OC'd 11600K on Z590 vs a stock 5600X.
www.techpowerup.com/review/intel-core-i5-11600k/24.html

Why_MeThat's why I'm all about the B560 boards and locked cpu's. Cheaper, runs cooler and you don't gain much in performance these days by oc.

bpgt645600x is almost a year old. What are you going to brag about next, beating a toddler in boxing?

Chrispy_Honestly, with both Intel and AMD, overclocking is basically stupid now. Intel's unlocked PL2 is stupid enough as it is, whilst cooling a Zen3 chip with aggressive PBO+ is also pretty ugly.

You leave a tiny bit of performance on the table but both Rocket Lake and Zen3 are very easy to thermally manage if you don't OC either (and that includes disabling PBO on Ryzen). The normal stock "boost" algorithms are pretty damn decent whether you use blue team or red team.

MusselsAkshually, we've got the hang of that. You can tune in the PBO settings quite accurately these days and get max speeds without the temps... it's like that final 1% of performance can have 50W thrown at it.

Minus InfinityWell amazing how people get impressed by synthetic benchmarks. Look at the scores those PCI-E 4 NVME SSD's achieve, yet in the real world they barely make a difference to user experience, unmless you do large sequential transfers all day long.

I'll will be impressed when I see Alder Lake vs Zen3/3+ running intense FP64 heavy simulations, PS, Matlab, 8K video rendering, etc. I couldn't care less if it crushes Zen in 1080p, because at higher res it matters not.

I have no reservations that Alder Lake is a huge leap for Intel, but let's see at what power usage. However, for me Raptor Lake is well worth waiting for as it will bring 25% IPC uplifts over Golden cove cores alone, and hopefully on refined node will lower power usage. Zen4 also will be huge uplift and will be the biggest architectural change for AMD. Intel may well win bragging rights this year, but I couldn't care less. We need strong competition, and I wouldn't reward Intel at this stage. My next update will be replacing my 1700X in Q1 2023. Will it be Zen 4 or Raptor Lake, only time will tell.

RandallFlaggThese things are all a matter of perspective, I think you're speaking from a DIY viewpoint.

It's interesting to note, the #1 selling CPU on Amazon is the 5800X followed by 5950X. Neither of these are low end. However, the #1 selling PC is a 11600K @$1500, #2 is an AIO with a 3050U and that is the only AMD CPU in the top 10 selling OEM / prebuilt desktop list - the entire rig costs less than a 5900X. #4, #6, and #7 are all 10400's. At the moment you don't see another AMD until #15 and that's another AIO 3150U.

But AMD seems to dominate in the DIY space. Looking at Microcenter I see the same thing for individual chips as at Amazon, Intel has a few chips in the top 10 but AMD always seems to have #1/#2.

It'll be interesting to see if the DIY rankings change with AL.