Monday, January 10th 2022
AMD Wanting to Time Launch of AM5 Platform with DDR5 Availability
It would seem that AMD is concerned about DDR5 memory availability in the market, at least based on an interview that Tom's Hardware had with David McAfee, the Corporate VP and GM of the Client Channel business at AMD. It's not just about availability it seems, but also pricing, as McAfee is quoted saying "One of the dynamics that we do think about a great deal is how and when to introduce that AM5 ecosystem and ensure that the DDR5 supply, as well as pricing of DDR5 memory, is mature and something that's easily attainable for an end-user".
With the current issues that the DRAM module makers are experiencing, with both staff issues related to the pandemic and the PMIC shortage some are having, the question is how long it'll take until there's a steady supply of DDR5 modules in the market, at a reasonable price point. We obviously don't know what kind of DRAM speeds AMD is aiming for either, although it's unlikely that the company is looking at something faster than JEDEC spec at this point in time, even though we expect faster speeds will also be supported. Outside of the US, it seems like a cheap stick of 8 GB of DDR5 memory is going for around the US$100 mark (€89) or roughly four times that of a similar DDR4 stick. Crucial in the US is offering a single 8 GB stick for US$68, with a 16 GB stick costing the same as a pair of 8 GB sticks, US$137. This is unlikely to be the kind of price point AMD is hoping for and most DDR5 memory modules are a lot more expensive.
McAfee continues "And so there may be other forces beyond the product itself that slow down or meter the introduction of APUs into that AM5 socket. You know, we do expect that to be an enthusiast-first introduction. And I think we're going to have to watch very carefully just how the DDR5 transition takes place and how quickly both supply and prices come in line to make it more affordable for a mainstream consumer that might be more interested in making a product in that socket." Although APUs are expected to gain more from the increased memory performance of DDR5 than CPUs, due to the integrated GPU getting more bandwidth compared to when paired with DDR4 memory, it looks like they might take longer to make an appearance than in the past from AMD, if DDR5 pricing and availability isn't right.
However, unlike Intel's Alder Lake, it doesn't seem like AMD's AM5 platform has an option to use DDR4 memory, which could be the achilles heel for the platform as a whole. Likewise, the Ryzen 6000 series of mobile APUs might also end up suffering, although AMD claims that its partners are "well-positioned" when it comes to supply of DDR5 and LPDDR5 for mobile products. Time will tell how things play out, but it looks like AMD might have painted itself into a corner, if supply and pricing doesn't improve in the next six to 12 months.
Source:
Tom's Hardware
With the current issues that the DRAM module makers are experiencing, with both staff issues related to the pandemic and the PMIC shortage some are having, the question is how long it'll take until there's a steady supply of DDR5 modules in the market, at a reasonable price point. We obviously don't know what kind of DRAM speeds AMD is aiming for either, although it's unlikely that the company is looking at something faster than JEDEC spec at this point in time, even though we expect faster speeds will also be supported. Outside of the US, it seems like a cheap stick of 8 GB of DDR5 memory is going for around the US$100 mark (€89) or roughly four times that of a similar DDR4 stick. Crucial in the US is offering a single 8 GB stick for US$68, with a 16 GB stick costing the same as a pair of 8 GB sticks, US$137. This is unlikely to be the kind of price point AMD is hoping for and most DDR5 memory modules are a lot more expensive.
However, unlike Intel's Alder Lake, it doesn't seem like AMD's AM5 platform has an option to use DDR4 memory, which could be the achilles heel for the platform as a whole. Likewise, the Ryzen 6000 series of mobile APUs might also end up suffering, although AMD claims that its partners are "well-positioned" when it comes to supply of DDR5 and LPDDR5 for mobile products. Time will tell how things play out, but it looks like AMD might have painted itself into a corner, if supply and pricing doesn't improve in the next six to 12 months.
109 Comments on AMD Wanting to Time Launch of AM5 Platform with DDR5 Availability
No way they can wait until DDR5 migrates to reasonable territory, that won't happen for at least another year or two, Zen4 can't wait that long.
AMD will not wait long that is for sure. Delay a bit, probably but that is it. Either way the DDR5 will get cheaper I hope.
I checked some sites for DDR5. You can actually buy it but the prices are a bit high to be fair. Especially if you compare these to DDR4 but, is it that much of a surprise?
AMD has the Infinity Fabric and this one is tied to memory frequency. I think AMD would want to move to a higher frequency modules and clearly DDR4 is reaching limits so DDR5 is the way to go.
We don't have all information about this but it would seem AMD want's to move forward with this. Not to mention, putting another controller for DDR4 is also a cost. Sooner or later the DDR4 will be a niche in the market and AMD just doesn't want to bump their cost with support for DDR4 with Zen4. I get the approach.
What are the speeds for DDR5 and DDR4 to be on par or close in performance nowadays? Does anyone know?
It has been said by AMD, AM4 to last 5 years and it did. AMD is following the plan that has been put into place which means moving to AM5 with Zen4.AM5 is scheduled later this year. There is still time for AM5 and DDR5 to be in place.
And please stop talking like the people you are talking to have never opened up a computer before. I fully understand how this works. I see what AMD have done, and they have made a miscalculation, and ofcourse it's not as easy as spinning up a new part with a new memory controller, because that takes time and money. Their miscalculation took place 2 years ago.
They're not stupid, you know. They've been caught off guard by the DDR5 pricing (and possibly 5nm capacity), but surprises happen to everyone making a mid or long term plan.
Zen 4 should speak for itself by offering the rumoured 15-25% IPC improvement, that's more than enough for most people adopting a new platform, as Intel has the same people used to meagre 3-5% IPC improvements while moving to a new platform! But if that's coupled with memory which costs as much or more than the CPU, you will have adoption issues, hence why Intel offers support for both memory architectures, and OEMs producing DDR4 to DDR5 memory adaptors.
So no brother. You dont understand the market totally.Zen4 is not out yet what performance it will have we will see. Just because you think it should have 15-25% up doesnt mean it will have that much. That is just your expectations. People will buy the DDR5 even if it is expensive. You do pay for the top tier tech nonetheless and it has been shown over the history of new tech stuff releases every time something new showed up. The prices will drop eventually. Timing should be the best but AMD cant wait for the DDR5 to mature and drop in price to mach DDR4 because that would not happen this year. Maturity is for products available in the market and actually purchased not lying on the shelves because people want to go with cheaper stuff.
DDR4 has actually reached its limits in performance. DDR5 is just starting and it will get better over time if people buy it. When you buy a new platform with DDR5, it is not much better at the moment than DDR4 but it will be in time.
If something is to mature withing time, it is not by lying on a shelve for a time being but it has to be used, and demand has to grow. Otherwise, it will end in a dumpster.
You clearly say AMD should stick to DDR4 and AM4 for Zen4 because the DDR4 is cheap. Now that is a stupid statement and you clearly talk only about you buying things cheaper since in your eyes that is what the market is all about.
Maybe you need to rephrase what you are trying to say cause it is not clear? I don't know. BTW. I'm not blocking anyone since that would have been disrespectful.
You're taking anything said that's not a praise to AMD far too personally. (Fwiw I don't think it would have been wise for AMD to add DDR4 support to Zen4, but that's another story.)
On top of that, do you understand how long it takes to develop a CPU? You're acting like AMD could simply change the design at the last minute, predicting 2 years in advance for a very recent chip shortage. If not for the chip shortage, the change to a DDR5 only platform wouldn't be as poor of a value as it currently is, and by the end of the year it almost definitely won't be as bad of a value now. Luckily, AMD isn't bringing out AM5/Zen4 out right now, so the value of DDR5 right now is irrelevant.
AMD releases only higher end SKU first , priced high while am4 actually phases out of the channel 8months later 16 from now bring out more economical options.
Well that's what I think they'll do.
Because what's the point of ANY budget system having 2/300£ memory, none.
What's being said about AMD is speculation though. Educated guesses at best.
Why would AMD go Intel route in the first place? Because our colleague does not like the idea of DDR5 costing so much? He said I dont know the market and that was his argument towards what I said. but I'm praising AMD since I disagree with his statement?
I'm not praising AMD but since I do understand market, I can't say that AMD's approach not going for DDR4 and AM4 with Zen 4 is a wrong approach. I can't say it is a wrong approach for AMD not to include the DDR4 controller with Zen4. I think it is inevitable move forward. Putting DDR5 price above everything else that's been said previously, why AMD does this, and why they would rather delay release a bit instead of moving back to AM4 and DDR4 with Zen4 would have been a disaster for AMD. That's what I'm saying. What he is saying? DDR price is high AMD is better off with AM4 and DDR4.
Imagine any emulator/tablet running a Zen APU with RDNA2 Graphics. Even Google Play apps work on Windows 11.
Intel's just-released i3-12100 generally beats all 3000-series AMD CPUs (even the 3900X) in most benchmarks, and is close on the heels of the 5600X while being less than half the MSRP; has an iGPU; and PCIe 5.0 support. It is going to utterly dominate the budget market, because the budget market has no loyalty to a specific manufacturer, the budget market will buy whatever performs well for the least amount of money, and until Zen 4 arrives that is going to be Intel - especially since you can reuse the DDR4 from your current AMD system.
AMD has been giving the middle finger to the low-/mid-end CPU market since Zen 1 - entirely due to greed - and Intel is now, deservedly, going to sweep that segment and regain a huge amount of marketshare.
(I know the current shortage started way after Zen, but everything since Zen has been built on cutting edge nodes, so it was supply constrained anyway.)
The last point I will make is take a 5600G and a 12100 yourself and Game with the IGPU and then tell me which is better in terms of software support and features,
Yes Intel's chips beat them in gaming at 720 With a Dgpu ,no they don't make everything else in the world irrelevant.
Again I just built two entire and rigs for £ 570(corrected my recollection) during the shortage with all new parts, clearly cheap as chips CPU in it from AMD, and these were built with no GPU in the price range at all possible, despite the better CPU part the 3350G still play fortnight as if not better.
It would hold back a 3090 but not a reasonable GPU too.
How low can you go with price of a 12100 system or 4/8 cored alternative 12 series ,it would be nice to compare but would have to include monitor keyboard mouse and a headset too :).