bugOnly one sane way to deal with chip shortages: build them yourself.

3roldPersonally, to all these solutions I would add one, limiting hardware manufacturers to a new "architecture" to every 2-3 years instead of marginal benefits every year. That way they would have enough time to give us good products.
Also another idea would be to increase longevity of certain parts like eg. mainboards, so in a way you'd force companies like Intel to use one chipset generation or even one socket for more than one or two CPU generation.
One other good idea would be to limit or stop the pre-soldered memory and storage chips. This crap is just bad. It kills upgrades and makes perfectly functioning devices obsolete much faster, producing an obscene amount of e-waste. Personally, I don't mind my laptop being 2-3mm thicker, if I can upgrade it and after some years sell it to someone who will either use it as is, or upgrade it and use it for a longer time, which will decrease e-waste.
idk, maybe that's just me.

TurmaniaAh these Europeans they never learn, there is a reason why 2 major wars started from them. They are never unified, never will be, it can not be when every nation speaks different language and have vastly different culture. they will fight with each other. they are never unified. brussels bureaucrats are just muppets.

3roldPersonally, to all these solutions I would add one, limiting hardware manufacturers to a new "architecture" to every 2-3 years instead of marginal benefits every year. That way they would have enough time to give us good products.
Also another idea would be to increase longevity of certain parts like eg. mainboards, so in a way you'd force companies like Intel to use one chipset generation or even one socket for more than one or two CPU generation.
One other good idea would be to limit or stop the pre-soldered memory and storage chips. This crap is just bad. It kills upgrades and makes perfectly functioning devices obsolete much faster, producing an obscene amount of e-waste. Personally, I don't mind my laptop being 2-3mm thicker, if I can upgrade it and after some years sell it to someone who will either use it as is, or upgrade it and use it for a longer time, which will decrease e-waste.
idk, maybe that's just me.

TheLostSwedeMaybe not limit them, but rather encourage them to slow down.
Technically speaking, Intel's Tick Tock model was a new architecture every other year, with design improvements the following year.
We're also at a point where the fab nodes are getting more and more complex and we're pushing for ever better hardware, while software developers seems to be getting more and more lax, as they can lean against the faster hardware and not having to write as good code as they once used to have to.

In the same spirit, we kind of need to slow down when it comes to releasing new products as well, since we, the consumers, have become alpha and in best case, beta testers for these large corporations, as they hurry to bring out new products to market, just to appease their shareholders. The world has kind of gone mad when it comes to product turnover and we're not talking "cheap" fashion products here, even though that is just as wasteful in a way, but hardware that is difficult to recycle and near impossible to repurpose a lot of the time.

I have a six year old laptop that is due to be replaced, when I can afford it. My phone on the other hand I'd rather see the manufacturer having to provide three years of security updates for, rather than it becoming an security risk due to lack of updates, when it technically works just fine, has a recent enough OS on it and working well enough otherwise.
However, a lot of companies stop supporting their hardware, so they can force people to upgrade to a new, shiny toy and this is where we've gone wrong.

As for pre-soldered memory, that one is tricky, as it seems some memory types, such as LPDDR4/x lack any kind of module standard. However, I see your point, as we've also started to get pre-soldered WiFi modules and even flash storage in some systems, which isn't exactly ideal when it comes to being able to service a product.

So no, it's not just you, but "we", as in the people that hang around places like this, don't think about these devices in the same way most consumer do.

KananThis is not the culture of Europe today.

3roldPersonally, to all these solutions I would add one, limiting hardware manufacturers to a new "architecture" to every 2-3 years instead of marginal benefits every year. That way they would have enough time to give us good products.
Also another idea would be to increase longevity of certain parts like eg. mainboards, so in a way you'd force companies like Intel to use one chipset generation or even one socket for more than one or two CPU generation.
One other good idea would be to limit or stop the pre-soldered memory and storage chips. This crap is just bad. It kills upgrades and makes perfectly functioning devices obsolete much faster, producing an obscene amount of e-waste. Personally, I don't mind my laptop being 2-3mm thicker, if I can upgrade it and after some years sell it to someone who will either use it as is, or upgrade it and use it for a longer time, which will decrease e-waste.
idk, maybe that's just me.

TheLostSwedeMaybe not limit them, but rather encourage them to slow down.
Technically speaking, Intel's Tick Tock model was a new architecture every other year, with design improvements the following year.
We're also at a point where the fab nodes are getting more and more complex and we're pushing for ever better hardware, while software developers seems to be getting more and more lax, as they can lean against the faster hardware and not having to write as good code as they once used to have to.

In the same spirit, we kind of need to slow down when it comes to releasing new products as well, since we, the consumers, have become alpha and in best case, beta testers for these large corporations, as they hurry to bring out new products to market, just to appease their shareholders. The world has kind of gone mad when it comes to product turnover and we're not talking "cheap" fashion products here, even though that is just as wasteful in a way, but hardware that is difficult to recycle and near impossible to repurpose a lot of the time.

I have a six year old laptop that is due to be replaced, when I can afford it. My phone on the other hand I'd rather see the manufacturer having to provide three years of security updates for, rather than it becoming an security risk due to lack of updates, when it technically works just fine, has a recent enough OS on it and working well enough otherwise.
However, a lot of companies stop supporting their hardware, so they can force people to upgrade to a new, shiny toy and this is where we've gone wrong.

As for pre-soldered memory, that one is tricky, as it seems some memory types, such as LPDDR4/x lack any kind of module standard. However, I see your point, as we've also started to get pre-soldered WiFi modules and even flash storage in some systems, which isn't exactly ideal when it comes to being able to service a product.

So no, it's not just you, but "we", as in the people that hang around places like this, don't think about these devices in the same way most consumer do.

CallandorWoTI have a hypothesis that if all the worlds governments simply asked all smartphone and tablet makers, well not ask, forced then to take a 6 month delay, the chip shortage would be over for all the critical industries that need it instantly. Apple for example, takes up a huge huge huge chunk of TSMC factory time. EU and USA need to declare national security emergency ordering all non-critical sectors to halt chip product for 3 months, so that car manufacturers can catch up, and so on and so forth, cause I have met people who can't afford to finance a new car like me and they can't afford the skyrocket prices on used cars, where I live there is no public transport, some of these people are literally giving up. If you do not think your economy is a national security issue nor care about people like that so the upper classes can buy their shiny new iphone every year, then fuck off and add me to your ignore list and let me know your name so I can add you to mine.

zlobbySo, basically you expect the people from the governments to turn against the ones who put them there in first place, hmm?

CallandorWoTI have a hypothesis that if all the worlds governments simply asked all smartphone and tablet makers, well not ask, forced then to take a 6 month delay, the chip shortage would be over for all the critical industries that need it instantly. Apple for example, takes up a huge huge huge chunk of TSMC factory time. EU and USA need to declare national security emergency ordering all non-critical sectors to halt chip product for 3 months, so that car manufacturers can catch up, and so on and so forth, cause I have met people who can't afford to finance a new car like me and they can't afford the skyrocket prices on used cars, where I live there is no public transport, some of these people are literally giving up. If you do not think your economy is a national security issue nor care about people like that so the upper classes can buy their shiny new iphone every year, then fuck off and add me to your ignore list and let me know your name so I can add you to mine.

TheLostSwedeMost car chips aren't made anywhere near cutting edge nodes. There's apparently even an oversupply of 28 nm capacity right now, which is even too cutting edge for a lot of the car stuff.
So sadly, doing what you propose wouldn't help much.

CallandorWoTWhy is there a shortage in car chips then? Whatever products are on that wafer/node, then the same logic applies, whatever those x products are taking away from critical components, therefore, still applies to the original logic in place. So I was wrong on Apple, great, doesn't change the overall logic.

z1n0xRight on. Brussels' beurocrats are rolling up the sleeves as we speak.

CallandorWoTI have a hypothesis that if all the worlds governments simply asked all smartphone and tablet makers, well not ask, forced then to take a 6 month delay, the chip shortage would be over for all the critical industries that need it instantly. Apple for example, takes up a huge huge huge chunk of TSMC factory time. EU and USA need to declare national security emergency ordering all non-critical sectors to halt chip product for 3 months, so that car manufacturers can catch up, and so on and so forth, cause I have met people who can't afford to finance a new car like me and they can't afford the skyrocket prices on used cars, where I live there is no public transport, some of these people are literally giving up. If you do not think your economy is a national security issue nor care about people like that so the upper classes can buy their shiny new iphone every year, then fuck off and add me to your ignore list and let me know your name so I can add you to mine.

TheLostSwedeLargely because JIT - Just In Time ordering. When the pandemic hit, all of the companies that normally place orders six months or a year ahead of planned production, cancelled their orders. The foundries hit the breaks and everything stopped for a few months, until everyone realised that people were still buying stuff. So everyone placed orders again, but now everyone needed stuff tomorrow, not in six months or a year. This is why there's a shortage of a lot of things, since there wasn't more than a month or two worth of stock of many of these parts.
Add to that, local lockdowns and temporary closures at the factories that take what comes from the semiconductor fabs and turns it into chips, shipping delays and so on and you have a perfect storm which has put us in the situation we're in today.

trsttteAnother thing is that the now free capacity was all quickly booked for other areas that had a big increase in demand (namely consumer electronics).

TheLostSwedeA lot of those aren't sharing nodes, but then again, a lot of parts are just simple power regulators etc. which are used in just about everything out there that involves electronics.
The big problem was that everything from the semiconductor fabs, to their suppliers and their suppliers in turn hit the brakes all at the same time, as all the electronics companies expected there to be zero demand, partially because the pandemic was expected to be worse than it has been and partially because no-one expected there to be a huge increase in demand of certain products.
As I mentioned somewhere, right now, there's a lot of free 28 nm capacity that no-one really wants or needs, for some reason.

TheLostSwedeAs I mentioned somewhere, right now, there's a lot of free 28 nm capacity that no-one really wants or needs, for some reason.

bugPersonal opinion, but I don't think orders were halted because anyone was expecting zero sales. Orders were halted because faced with uncertainty, everyone played the safety card. And they played it in the most short-sighted way possible. And I will admit that's exactly what I did, too: cut every expense I could and put everything planned for 2020 on hold.

Bomby569you can't plan backwards, people moved on from 28.

TheLostSwedeWell, not zero, sure, but very low sales, which turned up to be utterly and completely wrong in the end.

bugIt matters little. And we all know hindsight is always 20/20.

TheLostSwedePeople? A lot of things, like really a lot of things, are still made at 130 nm.
It really depends on what kind of ICs you're making. A lot of power related, analogue or RF front-end stuff doesn't really benefit from more advanced lithography.

Bomby569Burocrats shouldn't have to do anything if the European companies did their job. It's their fault it's all made somewhere else, there is know how and technology to do it here.

Bomby569Burocrats shouldn't have to do anything if the European companies did their job. It's their fault it's all made somewhere else, there is know how and technology to do it here.