X71200Well Teslas are stupid cars so shrug. Plastic bumper bits, unreliable bits on older models down to the door handles, and how can you ignore the YOKE on a sedan like shown on the front page of this news post? Moronic cars really. They had batteries overheat on older models as well. It's good that we now have actual competition in the EV market, especially with the Hyundai and the alike brands you wouldn't have expected back in 2012. Ioniq 5 looks nice.

Just about all production cars use a plastic bumper fascia.

Hyundai is not a great car brand, in the past few years
settled a class action lawsuit over lying about their MPG
settled a class action over poor quality wiring harnesses that nuked engines
currently in a class action lawsuit over excessive oil consumption on some of their engines
another one over transmissions dying early actually quite a few but those are just ones I remember from reading car stories in my news feed
Hyundai is not a great brand, just avg.
They were a reliable brand in the 00's but since the 10's they've been pretty bad. The sonata and elantra are notably poorly built cars.

semanticsJust about all production cars use a plastic bumper fascia.

Hyundai is not a great car brand, in the past few years
settled a class action lawsuit over lying about their MPG
settled a class action over poor quality wiring harnesses that nuked engines
currently in a class action lawsuit over excessive oil consumption on some of their engines
another one over transmissions dying early actually quite a few but those are just ones I remember from reading car stories in my news feed
Hyundai is not a great brand, just avg.
They were a reliable brand in the 00's but since the 10's they've been pretty bad. The sonata and elantra are notably poorly built cars.

Where I live kids are stealing all kinds of Hyundais and Kias constantly, because it's so easy, since they are only now beginning to use Immobilizer technology, in 2022! Technology that their competitors have been using for over 2 decades.

www.kbb.com/car-news/milwaukee-police-report-hyundais-kias-stolen-in-record-numbers/

www.caranddriver.com/news/a38491394/hyundai-kia-thefts-milwaukee-action/

I don't know why Tesla didn't equip a proper cooling system for processor, and every news are seemd to blame AMD.

TurmaniaA car should be dumb car. A car should not have automatic transmission. Everything driver controlled or where is the fun.... and oh by the way, a car should never have anything created by AMD.

WRONG.
What I've bolded is completely wrong but all the rest I do happen to agree with.

I prefer a manual but there have been days my knee was acting up, coudn't drive it and an auto trans let me still get around.
Now if talking about a computerized auto trans with eletrical valve body solenoids and all that's a different story - Must agree that should never have been, the older designs did and still do work fine.

lexluthermiesterRight? I'm not doing the smart car thing. No internet or satellite connections, no driver assist crap.

Driver assist can be really danged nice though, and in some cases even helpful.

FrickDriver assist can be really danged nice though, and in some cases even helpful.

I will not deny that. For people who have physical limitations, it can be a godsend. And I fully support self driving vehicles for the same group of people.

However, these technologies should not be forced on the masses and indeed need to be disabled at the prompt of the owner of the vehicle. Ask anyone who owns a recent Subaru can tell you, certain features disable other features when disabled. For example, turn off auto-braking or any of the cameras and cruise-control will not function. This a completely unacceptable condition. Subaru is far from alone on this. Tesla's have numerous examples of this kind of crap.

lexluthermiesterI will not deny that. For people who have physical limitations, it can be a godsend. And I fully support self driving vehicles for the same group of people.

However, these technologies should not be forced on the masses and indeed need to be disabled at the prompt of the owner of the vehicle. Ask anyone who owns a recent Subaru can tell you, certain features disable other features when disabled. For example, turn off auto-braking or any of the cameras and cruise-control will not function. This a completely unacceptable condition. Subaru is far from alone on this. Tesla's have numerous examples of this kind of crap.

It's not even about disabilities, just driving. I recently drove a spanking new Volvo XC60 (T8, because of dealership complications) about 400 miles in one go and the lane assist thing was a godsend. When I arrived I wasn't tired at all. Had I been driving my car (a comfortable Volvo s80 from 2003) I would have been fine, but very very tired. But now, nothing. Still fresh. And adaptive cruise control was really, really useful on the way back and I had to drive through Stockholm in friday afternoon traffic (while stressed because I had to catch a flight). Many cars, many entries and exists, so many cars flowing around, and I never, ever drive in those conditions (because I live in a tiny town up north). With the adaptive cruise control I could just set it, and set the distance to max and just automatically go with the flow, whatever that flow was at the moment. At some points I had to disable it, but it was far less stressful to have it turned on. Had I been used to that kind of traffic it wouldn't have mattered, but I'm not so it did. It was super useful.

And as for automatic braking, why would you ever disable a safety feature? And it is a safety future. On the aforementioned trip a truck in front of me had slowed down severely, and before I even saw it (because it was far ahead of me) the car started to slow down on its own.

FrickAnd as for automatic braking, why would you ever disable a safety feature?

And if it malfunctions or fails to function properly?

lexluthermiesterAnd if it malfunctions or fails to function properly?

Good point. Then it's faulty and should probably be looked at. And that in itself is, as have been said, the big problem, because at some point the cost of those repairs exceed the value of a car that is probably still fine otherwise. I too am way of the coming decade and what will happen to the used car market, and how many of the fancy electronics will stop working after +10 years.

semanticsJust about all production cars use a plastic bumper fascia.

Hyundai is not a great car brand, in the past few years
settled a class action lawsuit over lying about their MPG
settled a class action over poor quality wiring harnesses that nuked engines
currently in a class action lawsuit over excessive oil consumption on some of their engines
another one over transmissions dying early actually quite a few but those are just ones I remember from reading car stories in my news feed
Hyundai is not a great brand, just avg.
They were a reliable brand in the 00's but since the 10's they've been pretty bad. The sonata and elantra are notably poorly built cars.

I suppose you never actually bothered to look at the bumper of the Tesla, it looks like a plastic stick toy piece from China you'd buy for 5-10 bucks. On the highest end EVs.

Hyundai is actually about the best brand right now if you're dealing with certain segments. There's still no more sensible front wheel driven small EV SUV than the Kona, and the recent Genesis line of vehicles have been shooting the homeruns out of the court in some areas. You're talking about their less reliable vehicles and lying about MPG as if it's the foremost, biggest deal. The newer Elantra's are a lot better than the old ones, and you'll get a boatload of MPG with a 1.6 Hyundai so what's your point? Talk about how garbage German and American vehicles are, and check the Ioniq 5. It's arguably the most sensible all-around EV to buy right now.

Of course you'll come across those sort of stories from your car news feed, even some of the most reliable vehicles such as Toyota / Lexus suffered from those kind of stuff. You can't deny a burning hell inside the hood to not cause you issues one way or another one day. EVs are moving forward fast and Hyundai has been doing them relatively well. They're making EVs actually worth purchasing, unlike Tesla.

tabascosauzthe Atom is more than fine for any driving and infotainment functions. It's that other BS that Elon wants that the Atom really struggles with (web browser, Youtube app, games), where the Ryzen is orders of magnitude faster. I never use any of those functions unless properly stuck in traffic or supercharging

I mean Atoms are notoriously low end chiplets here, couple that up with an older Android system on the Infiniti, you get no less than at least a somewhat lackluster infotainment. Keep in mind those Infiniti vehicles are premium level vehicles that cost upwards of 40k when new. It's a case of manufacturer cheaping out, in that case Nissan being Nissan.

HisDivineOrderDumb cars last decades. Smart cars will be like smartphones, dying in less than a decade. I don't know why anyone wants what happened to phones to happen to their car.

I feel battery powered “smart cars” won’t even last close to a decade. Those rechargeable batteries will die or need replacement in a few years, unless you don’t mind needing to stop and recharge the car very frequently. I don’t see the point of all these “smart” devices or even cars. Car makers claim high mileage as compared to old “dumb cars”, but that is generally because they have replaced all the heavy parts with much lighter parts. In fact if you look at the cars nowadays, I can’t really say they have a proper “bumper”. Most kind of blend in with car body, and I can’t really tell if they are thick plastic or some thin aluminium that can’t do much when you do bump into something.

semanticsJust about all production cars use a plastic bumper fascia.

Because it's also a safety requirement as far as I know to minimize injury to pedestrians in case of a crash.

lexluthermiesterAnd if it malfunctions or fails to function properly?

That tech has been around for over a decade now, so if Ford offers it in their cars, its more often safe than not. There are very few cases of where it might fail, those very few are what made news headlines, so half the story usually. Like the story where a Tesla killed a pedestrian, it wasnt revealed until months later that the driver was reading his paper, blocking his view and not paying enough attention to the road.

There are actually cases of ACCs failing and those kind of gremlins actually happening - ending up with accidents and whatnot. Not extremely common, but yes it does happen. In fact, there are indeed some vehicles without any way of turning off some of those features or related stuff causing problems. This is typically with the more garbage reliability cars such as Alfa Giulia and the Stelvio, etc... just buy into actually reliable cars. Japanese domestic manufacture tend to be higher up the reliability rankings, typically. This kind of stuff is heard a lot more often with Italian, German, etc vehicles. Some American trashbag SUVs tend to come with these unreliable bits as well. Even a vehicle that looks solid from the outside... such as Lincoln Nautilus. Known for quite bit of issues. Ford product at its finesse there...

Toyota seems to make some decent vehicles. The Auris / Corolla hatch hybrid / HSD with the real first gear instead of CVT, for example. Cheap, practical and relatively reliable. It ain't the fanciest thing, even the Lexus CT... but they do get recommendations for being relatedly reliable, whatnot.

watzupkenI feel battery powered “smart cars” won’t even last close to a decade. Those rechargeable batteries will die or need replacement in a few years, unless you don’t mind needing to stop and recharge the car very frequently. I don’t see the point of all these “smart” devices or even cars. Car makers claim high mileage as compared to old “dumb cars”, but that is generally because they have replaced all the heavy parts with much lighter parts. In fact if you look at the cars nowadays, I can’t really say they have a proper “bumper”. Most kind of blend in with car body, and I can’t really tell if they are thick plastic or some thin aluminium that can’t do much when you do bump into something.

Musk has had 17 years(since 2004/5) to research battery durability, I too would like to know if those early models still use the same battery. I also saw a TV show/documentary several years ago that using the same battery in a Solar Powered home, cant remember the details. Since there is a path to storing Sunlght for 18years, I expect Musk will use that tech when it develops more.

DeathtoGnomesMusk has had 17 years(since 2004/5) to research battery durability, I too would like to know if those early models still use the same battery. I also saw a TV show/documentary several years ago that using the same battery in a Solar Powered home, cant remember the details. Since there is a path to storing Sunlght for 18years, I expect Musk will use that tech when it develops more.

He didn't research anything properly at that time, lol. He just took a tiny toy Lotus Elise and smacked a load of laptop batteries in it... I've been in the car, it was the worst car I've ever been in. The most cramped interior where I couldn't even move my legs around. The later models though those switched to Panasonic and other variants of batteries. However, it's still all lithium ion. They need to implement better batteries / solar power is not good enough. Check vehicles with solar sunroofs, it doesn't add much other than to weight right now...

X71200He didn't research anything properly at that time, lol. He just took a tiny toy Lotus Elise and smacked a load of laptop batteries in it... I've been in the car, it was the worst car I've ever been in. The most cramped interior where I couldn't even move my legs around. The later models though those switched to Panasonic and other variants of batteries. However, it's still all lithium ion. They need to implement better batteries / solar power is not good enough. Check vehicles with solar sunroofs, it doesn't add much other than to weight right now...

It can't move only on solar energy 100% of the time, but at least some part of the consumed energy can be produced by solar cells.
In some way, a hybrid - large battery with stored charge plus solar cells for some of the functions and energy economy..

Yeah, it's good in that sense - like if you leave the car to complete burning hades of sun down a vacation place or something. But really, the gains aren't massive and solar panel tech isn't exactly moving at a very fast speed. Like a Mercedes S-Series with solar roof from 2007 to an EV with it... they're still rather close to being equally as effective lol. Might as well ditch it all together till a better implementation.

X71200The most cramped interior where I couldn't even move my legs around.

I see that image of insides of the Delorean from back to the future.

Everyone knows that all research is on going regardless of business model, just because he didnt document it for public viewing doesnt mean he didnt do any.

X71200later models though those switched to Panasonic and other variants of batteries.

there is a reason for this change, its called research.

DeathtoGnomesthere is a reason for this change, its called research.

Tbh you'd expect more reliable and better stuff out of 15 years of research. Mercedes has recently gotten in this game and even their li-on package looks like a lot better fitment:

cdn.eftm.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/LRG_DSC00047.jpg

This is the Tesla as you might know...

www.researchgate.net/profile/Emrah-Yirik/publication/316624177/figure/fig1/AS:791460282650630@1565710244837/Tesla-Model-S-battery-pack.jpg

X71200Tbh you'd expect more reliable and better stuff out of 15 years of research. Mercedes has recently gotten in this game and even their li-on package looks like a lot better fitment:

cdn.eftm.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/LRG_DSC00047.jpg

This is the Tesla as you might know...

www.researchgate.net/profile/Emrah-Yirik/publication/316624177/figure/fig1/AS:791460282650630@1565710244837/Tesla-Model-S-battery-pack.jpg

How are you measuring reliability?

DeathtoGnomesHow are you measuring reliability?

If we're talking about the battery stuff rather than the car itself, the batteries they used on most those older Model S weren't exactly the finest of the pick. Either a huge rack of off the shelf li-on, or a smaller but still big rack of better li-on... I'd expect a brand like Tesla to move to some other batteries such as li-po or even better. There have been some reports of Tesla's burning.

Honestly the vehicles are pretty low standard in quite some areas. Like their most common choice, the Model 3 doesn't even have a dash in front of you. They cheap out big time while the cars are still expensive. I'd rather drive an older Infiniti over those things. Even that's more practical in some ways, and Nissan is realistically not a high bar.

X71200If we're talking about the battery stuff rather than the car itself, the batteries they used on most those older Model S weren't exactly the finest of the pick. Either a huge rack of off the shelf li-on, or a smaller but still big rack of better li-on... I'd expect a brand like Tesla to move to some other batteries such as li-po or even better. There have been some reports of Tesla's burning.

Honestly the vehicles are pretty low standard in quite some areas. Like their most common choice, the Model 3 doesn't even have a dash in front of you. They cheap out big time while the cars are still expensive. I'd rather drive an older Infiniti over those things. Even that's more practical in some ways, and Nissan is realistically not a high bar.

Wow, so no source, only heresay. Telsa has had issues with battery suppliers in the past (no idea if thats still on going its not exactly public information), which might account for 'cheaped out' 'low standard' batteries, as you put it. Not everyone likes every car, personal choice based on opinion rather than fact is very common.

Are the Infiniti and Nissan models you are referring to, full electric or hybrid?

DeathtoGnomesWow, so no source, only heresay. Telsa has had issues with battery suppliers in the past (no idea if thats still on going its not exactly public information), which might account for 'cheaped out' 'low standard' batteries, as you put it. Not everyone likes every car, personal choice based on opinion rather than fact is very common.

Are the Infiniti and Nissan models you are referring to, full electric or hybrid?

They're hybrids, but honestly it was a random take. I can't stomach some of Tesla's attempts, there are more points where they cheaped out on the Model 3.

Nowadays more and more EVs are coming out from various manufacturers that there seems to be a better alternative to Tesla vehicles. Especially in the SUV market, like Volkswagen has some mid size SUVs that don't look bad at all... and SUVs are a huge market nowadays. Many companies are releasing EV SUVs; Mokka, I-Pace, etc etc... the only thing actually worth of Tesla is the Supercharger network, lol.

X71200They're hybrids, but honestly it was a random take. I can't stomach some of Tesla's attempts, there are more points where they cheaped out on the Model 3.

Nowadays more and more EVs are coming out from various manufacturers that there seems to be a better alternative to Tesla vehicles. Especially in the SUV market, like Volkswagen has some mid size SUVs that don't look bad at all... and SUVs are a huge market nowadays. Many companies are releasing EV SUVs; Mokka, I-Pace, etc etc... the only thing actually worth of Tesla is the Supercharger network, lol.

There's no doubt of your hate for Tesla, making any excuse to trash talk it without backing up any facts. Thats fine, its your opinion. I would like to see an EV SUV, cant imagine such a large vehicle going form 0-60 in less than 10 seconds.