SOAREVERSORNot really. Alder Lake beats the Ryzen 9s at most creation loads right now. We know from the 5800X3D that the 3D versions are actually worse in creation workflows. This is strictly a gaming boost. The Ryzen 9 doesn't make sense. Now a Ryzen 5 would.

It isn't as clear as it depends on the application. Games on the other hand Alder Lake is clearly ahead, with 3D cache and the faster frequencies of the Ryzen 9s compared to 7 it would bring back AMD to the top.

BlaezaThey should do a whole range of X3D processors so even people like myself without £500 for a chip can enjoy extending the life of there platform.

Apparently, that's what AMD planned to do but there must have been some "last-minute" problems, due to which they released a 5800X3D only.

The pictures which show that 5800X3D when delided has interposers in place just confirms that AMD aimed at 2-chiplet 3DV Zen3/Vermeer+ CPU models...

SOAREVERSORIt's sort of odd as the 5800X3D isn't really better than the 5800. It's better in gaming, it's at best on par with the it and very often worse by a good margin in content creation.

This isn't completely true. There are some workloads, like some compression algorithms (data, not A/V) or databases which benefit hugely from the large cache...

Also, there will definitely be some scientific calculations, simulations, etc. which do not require server-type processors, like EPYC's which woudl nevertheless benefit from a large cache.

JismThey just downclock to the point the CPU is stable at max 1.35V as it is right now with the 5800X3D. Basicly your getting a 16 core 32 thread but 99.9% with a lower clockspeed.

The problem is the DRAM that is responsible for the additional cache cant cope with voltages higher then 1.35V. It's still connected to the CPU voltage in terms. So as long as they dont design a seperate voltage rail for the DRAM cache, we cant overvolt or really push the chips to it's limits.

SRAM, not DRAM. CPU cache is SRAM (static RAM)...
But I agree otherwise what with you are saying...

LenneI just think that R9X3D wasn't worth it when Zen4 is just around the corner.

So they would release 5950X3D now? That doesn't make any sense.
Clearly they encountered a specific "last-minute" problem, that's why they have released 5800X3D only initally.

That AMD wants to release 5900X3D or 5950X3D now shows, that the 3DV-cache actually is much more important in terms of future roadmap/innovations than just simply increasing the cache size.

As it seems, a 3DV-cache will allow AMD to free the CPU chiplet off the L3 cache completely which will make place for "little cores" (aka Zen 4c) to be added to the CPU chiplet. This way AMD will be able to double the number of cores (albeit with a half of "small cores") on the AM5 platform. Using more 3D-stacked chiplets, it will have the possibility to have even more cores without having to have a yet another platform...

gffermariIt's suicide to release more 3Ds or Zen 4 or anything for the AM4 platform while the AM5 is due to be released in a couple of months.
The only reason of doing something like that, is probably the current economic situation globally.

No, the only reason of doing that is that AMD desperately needs a 2-chiplet CPU with 3DV-cache to be tested "in the wild" as soon as possible.

Which means that AMD will be using the 3DV-stacked L3 cache for other purposes than just increasing the cache amount and it will be really soon (otherwise AMD could have waited for Raphael with the 3DV-cache).

There are some rumours about Raphael-X being released in the end of this year. That means that a 3DV-stacked L3 is a part of what Raphael-X will be, but it isn't the only fancy technology, Raphael-X will bring.

Most probably, the 3DV-cache will be used to free the CPU chiplet off the L3 cache so that they can add "little" core (Zen 4c) into the CPU chiplet.

And AMD apparently doesn't want to make too many steps at once so they need to test the 3DV-cache alone with 2 CPU chiplets.

That's why they are willing to risk that 5950X3D will bring less interests in the AM5 platform initially, because they have to do this (Raphael-X) right as they need more cores to be able to compete against Raptor Lake and Meteor Lake...

Guwapo77The AM5 platform will have X3D parts out this year too!

Most probably, Raphael-X will depend heavily on the 3DV-technology, but that will allow to do a much more fancy stuff than just having more L3 cache...

ARFIt will create internal competition - why does AMD insist to produce two lineups with approximately equal or similar performance characteristics?
Zen 3 3D =~ Zen 4.

Because they need the 3DV-technology in order to bring a big.little architecture with 2x the core count to compete against Raptor Lake/Meteor Lake.

They need that the 3DV-cache technology is tested thoroughly also with 2-chiplets / CPU before they can make further steps.

ButrusMost probably, Raphael-X will depend heavily on the 3DV-technology, but that will allow to do a much more fancy stuff than just having more L3 cache...

I'm just going off of what AMD said...later this year. :rockout::rockout::rockout:

GarrusThat would be awesome! Right now the Canadian price for the 5800X3D is silly. $350 for the 5700X, but $580 for the 5800X3D. That's an extra $230 plus tax for just cache!

I'd like to see a 5600X3D for an extra $100 CAD, like $350 CAD for it...

Just picked up the 5700x for $280 on Amazon. Put it on a Asus ROG Strix B550-f gaming. Wow this thing is fast.

ButrusApparently, that's what AMD planned to do but there must have been some "last-minute" problems, due to which they released a 5800X3D only.

The pictures which show that 5800X3D when delided has interposers in place just confirms that AMD aimed at 2-chiplet 3DV Zen3/Vermeer+ CPU models...



This isn't completely true. There are some workloads, like some compression algorithms (data, not A/V) or databases which benefit hugely from the large cache...

Also, there will definitely be some scientific calculations, simulations, etc. which do not require server-type processors, like EPYC's which woudl nevertheless benefit from a large cache.



SRAM, not DRAM. CPU cache is SRAM (static RAM)...
But I agree otherwise what with you are saying...



So they would release 5950X3D now? That doesn't make any sense.
Clearly they encountered a specific "last-minute" problem, that's why they have released 5800X3D only initally.

That AMD wants to release 5900X3D or 5950X3D now shows, that the 3DV-cache actually is much more important in terms of future roadmap/innovations than just simply increasing the cache size.

As it seems, a 3DV-cache will allow AMD to free the CPU chiplet off the L3 cache completely which will make place for "little cores" (aka Zen 4c) to be added to the CPU chiplet. This way AMD will be able to double the number of cores (albeit with a half of "small cores") on the AM5 platform. Using more 3D-stacked chiplets, it will have the possibility to have even more cores without having to have a yet another platform...



No, the only reason of doing that is that AMD desperately needs a 2-chiplet CPU with 3DV-cache to be tested "in the wild" as soon as possible.

Which means that AMD will be using the 3DV-stacked L3 cache for other purposes than just increasing the cache amount and it will be really soon (otherwise AMD could have waited for Raphael with the 3DV-cache).

There are some rumours about Raphael-X being released in the end of this year. That means that a 3DV-stacked L3 is a part of what Raphael-X will be, but it isn't the only fancy technology, Raphael-X will bring.

Most probably, the 3DV-cache will be used to free the CPU chiplet off the L3 cache so that they can add "little" core (Zen 4c) into the CPU chiplet.

And AMD apparently doesn't want to make too many steps at once so they need to test the 3DV-cache alone with 2 CPU chiplets.

That's why they are willing to risk that 5950X3D will bring less interests in the AM5 platform initially, because they have to do this (Raphael-X) right as they need more cores to be able to compete against Raptor Lake and Meteor Lake...



Most probably, Raphael-X will depend heavily on the 3DV-technology, but that will allow to do a much more fancy stuff than just having more L3 cache...



Because they need the 3DV-technology in order to bring a big.little architecture with 2x the core count to compete against Raptor Lake/Meteor Lake.

They need that the 3DV-cache technology is tested thoroughly also with 2-chiplets / CPU before they can make further steps.

The L3 is an integral part of the die. Any other way would add way too much latency. I see a separate die for small/efficiency cores being more likely.

Also, if AM5 has a separate voltage rail for the L3 cache, we could see unlocked X3D processors...

I think Zen 4 for AM4 will be AMD's answer to LGA 1700 supporting DDR4 and DDR5.

Count von SchwalbeThe L3 is an integral part of the die. Any other way would add way too much latency. I see a separate die for small/efficiency cores being more likely.

There was a leak in january (wccftech) which showed what I describe.

It seems that AMD will make pairs of a big and small core sharing a L2 cache each.
That would make perfectly sense as it would allow for processes/threads to migrate from the big to the small core and vice versa rapidly (a problem Intel has now with P+E cores).

Also, in that scenario you would have only 8x L2 cache on a 16C die which means you don't have to design a new topology for the interconnects between the cores (which would be less efficient anyway).

Everything just makes sense in this scenario according to the leak in january.

If AMD was able to develop two variants of the Zen4 core, it will surely have no problem desinging a CPU chiplet without the L3 cache. The advantage is also that it is hard to optimize the process for both - logic and memory. That's why a separate L3-cache chiplet makes much sense...

I think Zen 4 for AM4 will be AMD's answer to LGA 1700 supporting DDR4 and DDR5.

That is unrelated. But I think you may be right in this point.

So I guess AMD gets TSMC's supply due to NV withdrawal. I think it is a good idea for more 3d CPUs in the AM4. It gives more options. AMD decided to get those out and I'm sure it is a good move.
Something tells me they will get the voltages right and the 5900x3d and 5950x3d will perform better than regular. Tweaks will happen for sure. That also tells me, Zen 4 is faster than we think and I'm sure AMD would not jeopardize their sales with these Zen3 CPUs and it wont be the case. At least, that is my conclusion about broader range of 3D Zen3 CPUs.

Why_MeAnd that's why an Intel i7 12700F + B660 board is usually the better option.

And much cheaper - together with far better overall performance, that's a winner in my book!

HenrySomeoneAnd much cheaper - together with far better overall performance, that's a winner in my book!

$40 if you get one of the cheapest AM4 boards. Would not call that much cheaper. If you dont need to buy a board since you already have one, better go AMD.

More 3Ds in AM4 means they have to reduce the prices a lot, so there’s room for the zen 4 to compete on both price and performance with intel’s current and next gen cpus.

I don’t know if it’s possible.
Only if zen 4 is double the performance of anything and plays on its own league…

ratirt$40 if you get one of the cheapest AM4 boards. Would not call that much cheaper. If you dont need to buy a board since you already have one, better go AMD.

Depends how good your AM4 board is i guess, a cheap one meh, if it's a ROG etc maybe so.

TiggerWow you have a problem don't you. Gimp cores, lmao just another one who does not understand how they work or actually how powerful they are. Go back to sleep, or go hide yourself from big bad Intel.

You’re clearly a intel fan, that’s why you react so angry to the fact I called these weaker cores gimp cores. They aren’t powerful that’s the point. They can’t do AVX512 they don’t have SMT. Going AMD with 5800X3D is cheaper and more economical than going with a 12700K, and then the 5800X3D is also faster and more efficient. You don’t even have a point. Most users are perfectly fine with 8 proper cores for gaming, and are better served with higher gaming performance instead of 4 wannabe cores they barley or never use.

“No, the only reason of doing that is that AMD desperately needs a 2-chiplet CPU with 3DV-cache to be tested "in the wild" as soon as possible.”

That already happened many months ago with the server chips (Milan-X). It’s nothing special and the 5800X3D is only a offshoot of those, not a experiment or something like that. Neither will be a theoretical 5950X3D.

ButrusIf AMD was able to develop two variants of the Zen4 core, it will surely have no problem desinging a CPU chiplet without the L3 cache.

There’s no point in designing a cpu without L3 cache, 3DV cache is more complicated and more expensive to include, so all CPUs will always have L3 cache and 3DVcache is just optional and additional.

eazenYou’re clearly a intel fan, that’s why you react so angry to the fact I called these weaker cores gimp cores. They aren’t powerful that’s the point. They can’t do AVX512 they don’t have SMT. Going AMD with 5800X3D is cheaper and more economical than going with a 12700K, and then the 5800X3D is also faster and more efficient. You don’t even have a point. Most users are perfectly fine with 8 proper cores for gaming, and are better served with higher gaming performance instead of 4 wannabe cores they barley or never use.

“No, the only reason of doing that is that AMD desperately needs a 2-chiplet CPU with 3DV-cache to be tested "in the wild" as soon as possible.”

That already happened many months ago with the server chips (Milan-X). It’s nothing special and the 5800X3D is only a offshoot of those, not a experiment or something like that. Neither will be a theoretical 5950X3D.


There’s no point in designing a cpu without L3 cache, 3DV cache is more complicated and more expensive to include, so all CPUs will always have L3 cache and 3DVcache is just optional and additional.

So the 12700k only has 4 cores? it has 8 proper cores with hyper threading you goon, the E cores are an extra. Look at the E core only tests done by TPU staff, you might learn something instead of spouting drivel. I am a Intel fan, and a AMD fan, had both, just got Intel atm as the board and CPU where a gift, not gonna turn them down. Guess you would though as your AMD rabidness would not let you keep them.

The 5800x3d is faster at games, nothing else. Even the 5800 no 3D is not faster than a 12700k.

Also, don't forget AMD will be using BIGlittle at some point the same as Intel is now. Will you still be calling them eazen cores then, i bet not because it's AMD using them.

TiggerSo the 12700k only has 4 cores? it has 8 proper cores with hyper threading you goon, the E cores are an extra. Look at the E core only tests done by TPU staff, you might learn something instead of spouting drivel. I am a Intel fan, and a AMD fan, had both, just got Intel atm as the board and CPU where a gift, not gonna turn them down. Guess you would though as your AMD rabidness would not let you keep them.

The 5800x3d is faster at games, nothing else. Even the 5800 no 3D is not faster than a 12700k.

Also, don't forget AMD will be using BIGlittle at some point the same as Intel is now. Will you still be calling them eazen cores then, i bet not because it's AMD using them.

Yea by now it’s obvious who here has problems. No sense trying to argue with a fan, he can’t even read my posts properly (“so the 12700K only has 4 cores”), lol. Bye, have a nice day. Suffice to say, the 5800X3D is better in every metric aside from production usage, and which gamer cares about that. None.

What I said is true anyway. 5800X3D with a cheap MB is cheaper than 12700K with a board and is faster in games and uses less power. :)

So these new processers! Wow, can't wait! :lovetpu:

Stay on topic.
Stop the insults.
Report the problem and do not make a retaliatory posts.

eazenWhat I said is true anyway. 5800X3D with a cheap MB is cheaper than 12700K with a board and is faster in games and uses less power. :)

True, hahaha! Bullshit, pal! 12700k is right now $80 cheaper than 5800x3d. You would really need to dig deep into the pit of the crappiest possible AM4 motherboards to find one that would make the combo even just on par price-wise with a decent enough B660 one.
AMD Ryzen 7 5800X3D - Ryzen 7 5000 Series 8-Core 3.4 GHz Socket AM4 105W Desktop Processor - 100-100000651WOF - Newegg.com
Intel Core i7-12700K - Core i7 12th Gen Alder Lake 12-Core (8P+4E) 3.6 GHz LGA 1700 125W Intel UHD Graphics 770 Desktop Processor - BX8071512700K - Newegg.com

HenrySomeoneTrue, hahaha! Bullshit, pal! 12700k is right now $80 cheaper than 5800x3d. You would really need to dig deep into the pit of the crappiest possible AM4 motherboards to find one that would make the combo even just on par price-wise with a decent enough B660 one.
AMD Ryzen 7 5800X3D - Ryzen 7 5000 Series 8-Core 3.4 GHz Socket AM4 105W Desktop Processor - 100-100000651WOF - Newegg.com
Intel Core i7-12700K - Core i7 12th Gen Alder Lake 12-Core (8P+4E) 3.6 GHz LGA 1700 125W Intel UHD Graphics 770 Desktop Processor - BX8071512700K - Newegg.com

50$ isn’t 80$ and intel boards are more expensive, so no, I can easily do that without using the crappiest boards. :) Very easy. Talk more nonsense, I’ll easily counter it.

AMD is good. Intel is good. Where is problem?

Enough of the back-and-forth bickering... move on.

eazenI’ll easily counter it.

Mr GURU of TPU now eh. :laugh:

The 5800X3D is a good CPU for a gamer. For general use there are faster in both AMD and Intel camps.

eazen50$ isn’t 80$ and intel boards are more expensive, so no, I can easily do that without using the crappiest boards. :) Very easy. Talk more nonsense, I’ll easily counter it.

You'll easily counter it?!? Muahahaha, you can't even do a simple deduction right (450-370) :laugh: :laugh:

eazenbetter in every metric aside from production usage,

Well then it's not better in every metric is it. Gamers don't just use their PC's for games. What are you doing now? on TPU not gaming. There is more to a PC than games, some of which need a good general use CPU not one that has been modified to be better at one and worse at the rest. Guess which CPU i would pick?

HenrySomeoneYou'll easily counter it?!? Muahahaha, you can't even do a simple deduction right (450-370) :laugh: :laugh:

Your website says 399 and 449$. :) On time also electric bill savings due to less power usage, the 5800X3D wins this. Intel has better CPUs, the 12600K and 12400F are both great value for gamers (and unparalleled).