I thought the superspeed branded was removed once 3.2 became a thing and SuperSpeed++ turned into 3.2 2x1.

Ugh, it's still a total mess.

USB is USB. Plug your thing into the port with the biggest number and stop caring about it?

USB-IF making a mess of names and logos is one thing you can always count on in life.

ir_cowI thought the superspeed branded was removed once 3.2 became a thing and SuperSpeed++ turned into 3.2 2x1.

It survived until recently, actually I think it was just SuperSpeed+ with the speed specified in the logo, at least according to this logo usage guideline that was still available at the beginning of the year from this page.

Not sure about anywhere else, but in my neck of the woods, we call this whole situation a "precognitively abominated clusterf*ck" :)

but what about the 80 Gbps cables? ;)

At this point I have to assume they deliberately made these names confusing so the manufacturers can keep selling their stockpile of over-manufactured old generation USB3 1.0 hardware

Gosh it's as confusing as before. Just with new logos.

This set of logo is actually pretty decent. Now we just have to match 3 different parts (device, cable, charger) to fully utilise anything more than the absolute basic ...

Death by a million cuts specs. The one thing Thunderbolt didn't get wrong.

How is USB 4.x so hard to do?

I honestly hate USB at this point and dislike that it is replacing so many other ports. I want my dedicated ports!

I's an improvement, at least.
I give kudos for moving away from #s and Gens; instead, promoting companies advertise using 'specified bandwidth' and/or 'specified safe wattage'.

...still feel like this was an unneeded 'bandaid', on a 'boo boo' that was their own fault.


edit: Also, can't wait for Cheap under-spec cables being sold as 40Gbps 240W cables, then melting/catching fire/killing devices due to being USB 3 Gen 1 cables with 28-32awg throughout.
It's not USB-IF's fault, but it already came up when USB-C was becoming common.
Even more complicating is that many high-quality 'old 'USB 3' cables may well be capable of the newest spec. Kinda like DP and HDMi cables, or 10GbE over short distances of CAT5E. There are differences, but we cannot be sure of them until destructive dissection of the cable.

So USB has two different 20 Gbps modes… there is USB 3.2x2 = 20 gbps, but with no pcie tunneling. USB4 also has a 20 gbps mode that uses different signaling than USB 3, and IIRC, it can tunnel pcie at 20 gbps.

so when we see USB20Gbps in new equipment, which version is it, usb3.2x2 with no pcie tunneling, or is it usb4? Will we know?

Quote

NanochipSo USB has two different 20 Gbps modes… there is USB 3.2x2 = 20 gbps, but with no pcie tunneling. USB4 also has a 20 gbps mode that uses different signaling than USB 3, and IIRC, it can tunnel pcie at 20 gbps.

so when we see USB20Gbps in new equipment, which version is it, usb3.2x2 with no pcie tunneling, or is it usb4? Will we know?

The whole PCIe tunneling feature is all but abandoned. example: WIthout known exceptions, all the X670E boards are using Intel Thunderbolt 4 controllers for their USB 4, but have no advertised support for PCIe tunneling.

Since the one major differentiating feature is effectvely depreciated before even hitting the market, the difference between 20gbps usb3 and 20gbps usb4 is a non-issue for the consumer-facing marketing/brandng.
USB is a mess, but (IMHO) it's more to do with it being simultaneously THE consumer standard for external I/O as well as being used by gamers, enthusiasts, and professionls alike. (Looking for USB 3.2 nvme enclosures, i stumbled upon many a content-creator using USB 3.2 external drives for storing raw footage. Years gone by, this would've been Firewire and Thunderbolt) Details matter, but for consumer electronics, manufactureres typically prefer to disclose as few of technical details as possible.

Ah, I was worried there would be no USB rebranding stupidity this week. USB-IF is full of drunk or drugged monkeys, I see no other explanation.

LabRat 891Quote

The whole PCIe tunneling feature is all but abandoned. example: WIthout known exceptions, all the X670E boards are using Intel Thunderbolt 4 controllers for their USB 4, but have no advertised support for PCIe tunneling.

Since the one major differentiating feature is effectvely depreciated before even hitting the market, the difference between 20gbps usb3 and 20gbps usb4 is a non-issue for the consumer-facing marketing/brandng.
USB is a mess, but (IMHO) it's more to do with it being simultaneously THE consumer standard for external I/O as well as being used by gamers, enthusiasts, and professionls alike. (Looking for USB 3.2 nvme enclosures, i stumbled upon many a content-creator using USB 3.2 external drives for storing raw footage. Years gone by, this would've been Firewire and Thunderbolt) Details matter, but for consumer electronics, manufactureres typically prefer to disclose as few of technical details as possible.

If x670e boards are in fact using a thunderbolt 4 controller, and tb3 devices work such as an nvme enclosure at full speed, then by definition they’re tunneling pcie. In fact, you can use the windows thunderbolt software to see if pcie tunneling is enabled. A nvme storage device in the external enclosure connected via thunderbolt or usb4 will show up to the OS as a pcie device.

but the problem is one version of usb20gbps (usb3.2 genx2) is usb mode only with no pcie tunneling and the other (usb4) may support pcie tunneling. The label “usb 20 gbps” is ambiguous and you don’t know if the “usb 20 gbps port”supports pcie tunelling or not.

So if you connect an alpine ridge device to a “usb 20gbps” port, it may connect or it may not, depending on if the “usb 20 gbps” port supports pcie tunneling and tb3 signaling. Alpine ridge does not have a usb fallback mode. So if the “usb 20 gbps” port is really a usb3.2 gen2x2 port, the alpine ridge device will fail to connect. But if the “usb 20 gbps” port can tunnel pcie and support to signaling, then alpine ridge devices will be able to connect. Titan ridge has a usb-fallback mode and doesn’t have this problem.

so in conclusion, the “usb 20 gbps” label may be ambiguous, and users that have alpine ridge devices with no usb-fallback mode still need to know if a “usb 20 gbps” port supports pcie tunneling/tb3 signaling (and by extension also supports alpine ridge). The simplified label is not enough.

I have mostly given up on USB and put everything on Ethernet.

It just works.

NanochipIf x670e boards are in fact using a thunderbolt 4 controller, and tb3 devices work such as an nvme enclosure at full speed, then by definition they’re tunneling pcie. In fact, you can use the windows thunderbolt software to see if pcie tunneling is enabled. A nvme storage device in the external enclosure connected via thunderbolt or usb4 will show up to the OS as a pcie device.

but the problem is one version of usb20gbps (usb3.2 genx2) is usb mode only with no pcie tunneling and the other (usb4) may support pcie tunneling. The label “usb 20 gbps” is ambiguous and you don’t know if the “usb 20 gbps port”supports pcie tunelling or not.

So if you connect an alpine ridge device to a “usb 20gbps” port, it may connect or it may not, depending on if the “usb 20 gbps” port supports pcie tunneling and tb3 signaling. Alpine ridge does not have a usb fallback mode. So if the “usb 20 gbps” port is really a usb3.2 gen2x2 port, the alpine ridge device will fail to connect. But if the “usb 20 gbps” port can tunnel pcie and support to signaling, then alpine ridge devices will be able to connect. Titan ridge has a usb-fallback mode and doesn’t have this problem.

so in conclusion, the “usb 20 gbps” label may be ambiguous, and users that have alpine ridge devices with no usb-fallback mode still need to know if a “usb 20 gbps” port supports pcie tunneling/tb3 signaling (and by extension also supports alpine ridge). The simplified label is not enough.

It's almost like we should have just kept Thunderbolt Thunderbolt and DisplayPort DisplayPort instead of cramming 101 things into USB...

Printing out speed and wattage is nice at least.

Yeah, why not just make USB ports with all possible variations of blue?
Matt blue = 5 Gbps, light blue = 10 Gbps, dark blue = 20 Gbps, navy blue = 40 Gbps

NightYeah, why not just make USB ports with all possible variations of blue?
Matt blue = 5 Gbps, light blue = 10 Gbps, dark blue = 20 Gbps, navy blue = 40 Gbps

What if your colourblind?

Minus InfinityWhat if your colourblind?

Then you're out of luck.

It is an imorovement, but as the article says, only certified cables and devices should be using these labels. But will anyone actually enforce this?

Minus InfinityWhat if your colourblind?

Then you see shades of Grey and instead of shades of blue.

IF its not SuperSpeed...

:pimp:



Whats in a name? color coding is better. :p