It does not matter either way, from the unavailable point of view of the product. Classic nVidia, shady moves, turned scalper/troll. Yes, I know it's a free market.

More like they thought "a bold move cotton, lessee if it pays off." all the while having a sniper PR team ready if it goes wild.

And yet people still buy their products :confused:

But these are unprecedented developments - first Nvidia "unanouncing" the RTX 4080 12GB (to rebadge it something else), then MSI officially lowering the price of a product they just raised price on... All that just because of the internet whiners, majority of them not customers who could even buy such a product?

The problem is, all these good will gestures are probably just that - gestures. MSI can officially announce a lower MSRP, but they don't have to sell it to end customers at that price. Do you know who's doing the scalping at the retailers with very high price?

And Nvidia can offer us a RTX 4070 12GB instead of RTX 4080 12GB. For the same extremely competitive price of 1200 EUR...

CallandorWoT@crazyeyesreaper if I were to get an AIO gpu and AIO cpu cooler for the cpu too, let's say I use this system casually for 8 years, cleaning dust once a year or so, what would happen if one of them leaked one day? Would it fry my motherboard, or is all coolant in all modern AIO's non-conductive these days?

Just wondering how much actual risk there is in going with AIO setups vs air setups these days... personally I still want to go with air... but if there is literally 0 risk with AIO's, I may consider AIO...

AIO leaks are just as likely to destroy hardware today as they were 10 years ago. Some people swear by them and have never had issues, others have lost multiple GPUs to leaks. Depends on what type of coolant you use, is it conductive? How old is the coolant? How fast did you notice it and turn the machine off? Ece.

There is no such thing as a 0 risk AIO system. My biggest issue with AIOs is there there is no easy way to refill them as the liquid slowly evaporates/condenses over time, leading to reduced performance and noisy coolers.

Legacy-ZAThat we have nVidia to thank for, a bunch of a-holes.

It's the customers who purchase more and more expensive cards what makes this possible. It's easy for Ngreedia to bump the prices generation after another when they see that those insanely expensive cards still sell well.

The three horsemen of GPU's.
Advanced Marketing Devices
Ngreedia, the way it's meant to be paid.
Shilltel, 14nm +++++++++++++++++++++

I mean, that's good they were called out for it and changed their tune. But its not like you can easily get one of the RTX 4090 cards anyway unless you want to pay scalper prices. Its getting old, we really need some decent supply of these or having second hand seller sites like ebay banning scalping and removing these listings (Something I maybe starting to come around to, but I am still unsure if its a good idea).

GhostRyderI mean, that's good they were called out for it and changed their tune. But its not like you can easily get one of the RTX 4090 cards anyway unless you want to pay scalper prices. Its getting old, we really need some decent supply of these or having second hand seller sites like ebay banning scalping and removing these listings (Something I maybe starting to come around to, but I am still unsure if its a good idea).

Scalping isn't illegal so there isn't much anyone can do about it. :/

Still 900 over priced.. Can't believe people think 1700 is a good thing.

Dave65Still 900 over priced.. Can't believe people think 1700 is a good thing.

Exactly. And it can't be blamed by just inflation. Back in the day you could build a high-end gaming PC with all the peripherals with the price a modern graphics card costs.

Guwapo77I know this is merely anecdotal information... But I have two AMD Fury X's still fully operational and has never leaked... One is in my son's rig who does 1080p gaming for hours on in and the other is wife's computer for office work (complete overkill, but whatever).

If you are fearful and not really concerned about looks you could go with Alphacool quick connect hardware. These are G 1/4 compatible and allow for you to take out and change hardware without taking the whole loop apart. They have AIOs that are expandable using this technology and even complete GPU blocks. If I was going to buy a 4090 I would get the cheapest one I could find and buy a block with some of these. However if you are thinking about looks these are very subjective.

www.titanrig.com/alphacool-eisbaer-quick-connect-extension-kit-03-20-ac-0185-01-on.html?gclid=CjwKCAjwwL6aBhBlEiwADycBIFFUqgFaQ_0cgYpSt8wVYJxPnU_GUGBMlg8xoHymT_Ex0TwkUafiWxoCakoQAvD_BwE

LenneScalping isn't illegal so there isn't much anyone can do about it. :/

Oh I know, and I am not on board with there being a law because that's a slippery slope I don't want to see. I was more referring to sites like Ebay making it more difficult like how many concert ticket resellers force you to charge no more than 10% above the MSRP for the ticket (Not sure how they would do it on sites like Ebay where there is bidding). I mean car dealers have started implementing new ideas to stop scalping. GM for instance says if you buy a new Corvette and sell it before 1 year (I believe that's the rule, may have to look it up again) they will void the vehicles warranty which is definitely going to lessen the resale value on a new vehicle.

Its just annoying at this point, I mean I understand a bit on opening month but I am hoping in coming months they will start just sitting on shelfs.

GhostRyderOh I know, and I am not on board with there being a law because that's a slippery slope I don't want to see. I was more referring to sites like Ebay making it more difficult like how many concert ticket resellers force you to charge no more than 10% above the MSRP for the ticket (Not sure how they would do it on sites like Ebay where there is bidding). I mean car dealers have started implementing new ideas to stop scalping. GM for instance says if you buy a new Corvette and sell it before 1 year (I believe that's the rule, may have to look it up again) they will void the vehicles warranty which is definitely going to lessen the resale value on a new vehicle.

Its just annoying at this point, I mean I understand a bit on opening month but I am hoping in coming months they will start just sitting on shelfs.

Yeah, concert tickets are a common article for scalping, totally not unusual for a quick cashgrab. Though IIRC at least some Finnish marketplaces have banned selling those just because of scalpers.

TheinsanegamerNAIO leaks are just as likely to destroy hardware today as they were 10 years ago. Some people swear by them and have never had issues, others have lost multiple GPUs to leaks. Depends on what type of coolant you use, is it conductive? How old is the coolant? How fast did you notice it and turn the machine off? Ece.

There is no such thing as a 0 risk AIO system. My biggest issue with AIOs is there there is no easy way to refill them as the liquid slowly evaporates/condenses over time, leading to reduced performance and noisy coolers.

I have a Cooler Master Nepton 280 running on a PC that is on 24/7. You know the phrase they don't make them like thy used to? I try not to buy any Asetek based cooler though.

kapone32If you are fearful and not really concerned about looks you could go with Alphacool quick connect hardware. These are G 1/4 compatible and allow for you to take out and change hardware without taking the whole loop apart. They have AIOs that are expandable using this technology and even complete GPU blocks. If I was going to buy a 4090 I would get the cheapest one I could find and buy a block with some of these. However if you are thinking about looks these are very subjective.

www.titanrig.com/alphacool-eisbaer-quick-connect-extension-kit-03-20-ac-0185-01-on.html?gclid=CjwKCAjwwL6aBhBlEiwADycBIFFUqgFaQ_0cgYpSt8wVYJxPnU_GUGBMlg8xoHymT_Ex0TwkUafiWxoCakoQAvD_BwE

You know...I made one system way back in 2002 with a water cooled loop and I never did it again. I had all kinds of space shit growing in there. I'm certain I didn't use what was required years later, I've just found AIOs the way for me. I don't have that kind of patience. Hell, only a few years ago did I start doing proper cable management. If I was a person with that kind of patience, I would want 90° angles dazzling throughout. However, I know I would fail into oblivion and I would just dropkick the whole damn rig.

Guwapo77You know...I made one system way back in 2002 with a water cooled loop and I never did it again. I had all kinds of space shit growing in there. I'm certain I didn't use what was required years later, I've just found AIOs the way for me. I don't have that kind of patience. Hell, only a few years ago did I start doing proper cable management. If I was a person with that kind of patience, I would want 90° angles dazzling throughout. However, I know I would fail into oblivion and I would just dropkick the whole damn rig.

Tap water?

CallandorWoT@crazyeyesreaper if I were to get an AIO gpu and AIO cpu cooler for the cpu too, let's say I use this system casually for 8 years, cleaning dust once a year or so, what would happen if one of them leaked one day? Would it fry my motherboard, or is all coolant in all modern AIO's non-conductive these days?

Just wondering how much actual risk there is in going with AIO setups vs air setups these days... personally I still want to go with air... but if there is literally 0 risk with AIO's, I may consider AIO...

Depends on the AIO and the coolant they opted for typically it is water and glycol and it is conductive the fact is AIOs use mixed metals and while the coolant is meant to limit the issue of mixed metals the fact is you still end up with some level of galvanic corrosion which means the coolant will be conductive due to tiny metal particles. Either way in my 10 years of testing CPU coolers I have not had a single AIO leak. I have had many die but no leaks. The sole source of failure in all the AIOs i have ever had is the pump. Typically something happens and the impeller breaks away from the shaft leaving a high speed shaft that spins and an impeller that moves no liquid since it broke free. That said any AIOs i have had that failed typically did so at about the 3-4 year old mark. I have had 0 failures before that and only 1 failure after that and the one that failed after was due to lack of coolant due to evaporation over time. A quick topping up of the coolant has spared the others.

Most common point of failure now is gunk built up in the block. Stick with companies that offer extensive warranties and you will be fine because your likely to replace the cooler long before it fails. That said expecting an AIO to last say 8 years is highly unlikely. My rule of thumb on AIOs at this point is they will last about 3-4 years typically without issue. After that if you are a DIY enthusiast you can remove the bottom plate clean it and refill it and get more use out of it. But that then becomes and argument over what your time is worth to you to extend the life of the unit if it doesn't have an easy to access fill port.

Long story short my experience with 69 closed loop coolers I have had 5 failures total. That equals out to a 13.8% failure rate overall, however, If I go by failure rate during warranty period I have 1 failure. That means failure rate during warranty period has been 1.45%. Of those failures 0 were leaks. Open loop coolers like the EK Predator or Swiftech expandable copper loops all my EK predator units failed prematurely and did leak but none of these were closed loop systems with extra fittings, addons etc it increases the chance of failure. If I factor those in I have tested somewhere around 75 liquid coolers with a failure rate overall of 8. That is an overall failure rate of 10.67% failure during warranty period works out to 5.33%. Keep in mind this is data that extends back a decade. The build quality and process has improved dramatically since the early days. As such a leak is not a typical concern I have. Pump failure or gunk build up is. Considering MSI has had issues with gunk build up in some of their AIOs I personally wouldn't opt for an AIO cooled GPU. If I was going to use an AIO to cool a GPU I would opt for an AIO of my choice with a bracket to secure it to the GPU which was popular about 5 years ago but seems to have died off since.

Surprisingly none of the Swiftech units I have have failed. But with no modern mounting hardware for them they are basically useless but since they are open loop I can at least just swap out the CPU block on them if I want to reuse them,

Well, that settles it, I am sticking with air through and through.

LenneScalping isn't illegal so there isn't much anyone can do about it. :/

Depending on where you are there are laws against, concert tickets as mentioned is a common example but not the only one.

Ultimately, it's on people not to be suckers, this is not food or water, and most likely not even something you need for work (there are prosumers buyers but those are a minority), just wait a week for stock and prices to normalize.

That was fast, conflicting news next after another. One minute this then that.
Not enough, I need additional refund if the price drop exceeds 1% per 10 days for the next year.

bonehead123$1750 is moar than the total parts cost of my last TWO client rigs together....

Reminds of a guy in this Discord server I game on. He's a Twitch streamer. The other day he was boasting about the new rig he just built having costed $4000. Of course everything in it was top of the line stuff - a 7900X, a 4090 (he was coming from "only" a 3090, mind you) an X670E Taichi (he couldn't even pronounce the name or the brand correctly, calling it A.S. Rock)... :shadedshu::rolleyes: He was also talking with another dude in the server about the 4090 MSRP and the other guy goes "Oh, that's a steal." :roll::wtf:

How many times do companies like MSI have to commit their scummy practices before they realise that all they're getting from them is bad PR?

It's like a repeat shoplifter who gets caught every single time, but keeps stealing the same £1 chocolate bar again and again.

64KAmazon has the 4090s all the way up to $2,600
Retailer scalping.

They were originally listed at $4000 CAD (~3000 usd). Less coin now, but no stock. Like workstation card prices lol